Spiritual elitism is the second characteristic of a spiritually abusive environment.
Unlike some of the other traits we will explore, Teen Mania does not attempt to hide their elitism. In fact, they seem to revel in it, celebrate it and use it as a recruiting tool.
The home page of the True North leadership seminars even says “Join an elite group of leaders who are changing the world for Christ.”
It is hammered into interns that they are “above” regular Christians. (Taken from the “Aura of a Statesmen” lecture)
You are called to a higher standard. You are an intern now, people will be watching you.
Called to a higher standard than regular believers? Dave almost acts like the fact that they represent the internship is more important than the fact that they represent Christ.
So, interns and people who live like them are more spiritual than “regular” believers. But even within the internship, there is a “caste” system. Before there were any formal levels of the internship, this attitude still existed in the leadership’s interaction with the interns. The ones that were popular with the leadership were called “the untouchables.” Others that the leadership deemed not as spiritual were looked down on, sometimes with subtle disgust. Of course, judgment of your spirituality rested on how well you fulfilled their programs and followed their rules. All things that could easily be done without Christ.
The emphasis on Navy Seal like training also stems from their elitism. The people who complete ESOAL are deemed “better” quality leaders than those who don’t. I’m not sure how surviving any sort of physical event – torturous or not – makes people more spiritual or more qualified to shepherd others. It just means they are more physically fit, not as prone to injury, and probably the most submissive and willing to take abuse (which is ultimately what the HA is looking for in its “leaders”). Check out the video at this link:
So basically, Dave just told them they are better than the interns who didn’t finish. What more evidence do you need that he is judging people’s spirituality based on their performance?
Again, programs can’t make anyone into a world changer. Emphasis again here is on PERFORMANCE. It is ingrained into everything they do and it has absolutely nothing to do with the Gospel.
Other alumni have told me that Dave Hasz and HA leadership have even told them things like, “Most Baptists aren’t Christians,” and “If you don’t speak in tongues, you aren’t going to heaven.” This is spiritual elitism at its worst.
The bottom line is that no matter what, you are not better than anyone else. Everything you are, you are because of Christ. “Not of works, that any man should boast.”
41 comments:
Eric P.says:April 16, 2010 at 10:52 AMReply
Just saw this quote the other day on Provender:
One common finding in cults and spiritually abusive groups is something called “elitism.” It’s a feeling that your vision for the church is superior to that of others. Though all churches, and most leaders, feel that they are on the right path, that their doctrines or practices are what God wants, that alone isn’t elitism. Elitism happens when you look at other churches or individuals and believe that your vision or your practices are among the very few that really please God. It is comparative. It is a superiority complex. This initial pride and puffing up – that can begin so very subtly — ends up justifying any abusive behavior that follows.
(Of course, only namby-pamby kum-ba-yah Christians actually believe that’s bad!)
And I’m sorry (not really), but “the elite status of PUMA” cracks me up completely because I can only think of THIS (and Here’s a video clip). “The Puma-Man! He flies like a moron!”
Shilohsays:April 16, 2010 at 12:08 PMReply
I’m kinda surprised more people haven’t commented on this yet R.A.
This is PERFECT example of what goes on at the H.A.
‘The home page of the True North leadership seminars even says “Join an elite group of leaders who are changing the world for Christ.” ‘
Wow.
But this is the saddest thing for me –
‘Other alumni have told me that Dave Hasz and HA leadership have even told them things like, “Most Baptists aren’t Christians,” and “If you don’t speak in tongues, you aren’t going to heaven.” This is spiritual elitism at its worst.’
I don’t know if I ever heard that from Mr. Hasz but I definitely heard these types of statements from staff members and G.I.’s.
I think I’ve just forgotten most of what they said cause it was so long ago. But there are a lot of mindsets that are stuck in my brain.
A big thing I’m learning is you can actually be wrong about what the bible says and still love God.
AAAAAANNNNDDDD – I am SO wrong about the bible. So I should probably shut my big mouth when someone says something I don’t agree with. lol.
Robbiesays:April 16, 2010 at 10:14 PMReply
Also from the TrueNorth page is this little gem:
“They are involved with behind-the-scene tasks like purchasing food, handeling money, problem sovling, and taking care of sick missionaries. They may be involved in ministry to nationals or the youth on the trip.”
Looks like someone could use a lesson in spell check! 🙂
Recovering Alumnisays:April 16, 2010 at 10:34 PMReply
Exsellense in spelinng
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 1:49 AMReply
I give it until Sunday evening for these to be corrected.
Nunquam Honorablussays:April 17, 2010 at 10:18 AMReply
Oh Robbie, don’t you know, similar to dietary provision, Christians don’t need to worry about their spelling when they’re doing the Lord’s work!!
unbiased parentsays:April 17, 2010 at 6:45 PMReply
wow….good job making fun of them…seriously thats a bit hypocritical if you ask me. What are you guys striving for, excellence in negativity?
I have nothing to do with TM, just stumbled across your site and have been silently reading for several months and am consistantly interested in how you all “deal” with your issues recieved from TM.
Anonymoussays:April 17, 2010 at 7:01 PMReply
while i agree that this ‘can’ be a healing place for some to realize they aren’t alone. to those outside the internship, this REALLY does seem like a gripe session or poking fun at TM’s junk.
Sometimes I think, “Wow this site is really doing good…and other times I think its more about just making fun of an imperfect ministry”
RA-have you heard the timeline of the investigation? Any idea as to what HA is going to do/change from the stories that have been told?
Anonymous Girlsays:April 17, 2010 at 7:13 PMReply
I have a question (kind of OT here). What “jobs” did you have at the Honor Academy? Also, I’ve seen a lot of abbreviations that I don’t know (obviously because I never went there). Can anyone tell me a bit more about this? Or the day to day life. Was it boring? Did you see the directors on a regular basis (or did you only speak with them if you were in trouble)? What were classes about? What is the tuition cost?
Sorry for so many questions. I know someone there now and he won’t tell me a thing. I have a lot of questions for him when he finally comes back to the real world (lol) and I want to make sure I have things to bring up to him. Any input is appreciated.
One last thing. I truly admire your courage, RA and others, for coming forward with your stories. When my friend went off to HA I had a bad feeling about it. I was skeptical at first of this site, mostly because I know what it is liked to be “bashed” because of my beliefs, but you’ve shown more than enough evidence (videos, podcasts, ect.) to prove your point. Thank you for bringing this all to light and I wish everyone well.
unbiased parentsays:April 17, 2010 at 7:51 PMReply
Anonymous I agree with your comment 100%….I used to think that there was no way for you to control what your subscribers & followers say RA, but to see you jump in on the bandwagon to “poke fun”, you definitely lose a bit of credibility which in my opinion is truly disapointing as I feel that you have something here with this site.
Further anonymous, I would be very surprised if RA heard “what HA is going to do/change from the stories that have been told?” as he/she is not on the inside so everything that is posted here is in some ways fairly biased. Change is something that I’m sure is going to take time and needs to be seen from the inside out however we will see the change based on the fruit that is produced.
Robbiesays:April 17, 2010 at 8:11 PMReply
Unbiased parent…I personally find it hypocritical for Teen Mania to demand near-perfection from their interns ALL of the time in EVERYTHING that they do….yet apparently the people designing the website don’t even need to be bothered to run a simple spell-check before posting something on the internet for the world to see. Seems like kind of a double-standard, doesn’t it?
Also, finding humor in a spelling error that was pointed out by someone else DOES NOT mean that the points RA makes on this blog are any less serious…any less real….or any less deserving of a second look.
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 8:40 PMReply
@ unbiased parent and anon.
I don’t actually care what you think.
Recovering Alumnisays:April 17, 2010 at 9:21 PMReply
unbiased parent – So its hypocritical of us to point out their hypocrisy? Sorry, I don’t buy that…I can see why you think its negative, but honestly, we are just letting off some steam here while pointing out the hypocrisy. Laughter does a heart good like medicine and all that…We are laughing at spelling errors – I don’t think its really that big of a deal.
Anon Girl – I just spoke with the board yesterday and will give an update on Monday’s post.
unbiased parentsays:April 17, 2010 at 9:24 PMReply
Robbie I would assume that since the ministry is run by the teens that are there, then websites are written by the teens that are there which if there are errors published then clearly Teen Mania’s “demand for perfection” must not be as fierce as you make it out to be otherwise one would conclude that these mistakes would not exist and Shiloh, I am glad you don’t care what I think, I’m not concerned with that however like it or not whatever you write in cyberspace will be judged and critiqued just as you have done to TM’s sites and if you want to be taken seriously and keep your credibility, be careful what you say as anyone can read it.
Recovering Alumnisays:April 17, 2010 at 9:30 PMReply
unbiased parent – The fact that imperfections do exist does not negate the fact that the environment is very perfectionist. No matter how performance drive an environment is, there will be imperfections b/c we are human. And no offense, if you’ve never spent time on campus – you can’t really speak to the environment there. We were all immersed in it – and we aren’t guessing about what happened. We lived it.
kristensays:April 17, 2010 at 9:42 PMReply
Nunquam – you are SO right… we did live it… and we were immersed in the TM environment. i agree with you, it’s very hard to speak to the TM culture/environment if you’ve never been immersed in it. i’ve found that TM’s demand for perfection from my time there still haunts me years later…
unbiased parentsays:April 17, 2010 at 9:42 PMReply
I understand where your coming from but its your job RA (since you’ve taken on the mantle) to show those of us that have never spent time on campus an accurate account and all I am saying is that you lose your credibility when you post things that sound as if you are poking fun or just downright negative. I am 43 years old and my wife and I were investigating the HA because of some youth in our church….we developed conclusions of the HA based on your site however to us old folks, when we read statements like the ones listed above, what are we to conclude other than this may be a group of disgruntled interns set out to complain about a program. Do you see what I’m saying?
Your statement “No matter how performance drive an environment is, there will be imperfections b/c we are human” is humorous to me as you clearly are saying they are humans however there does not seem to be an ounce of grace given when in fact “they are human”. Because you yourself are human, we are to give grace to you but you screw up I’m sure just as TM has.
Further, I would not consider poking fun at the expense of others good medicine and if that is the medicine your used to taking, I’m not confident I’d like to support an unhealthy environment as thats all it will ever be.
Blessings to you all
Unbiased parent
kristensays:April 17, 2010 at 9:44 PMReply
oops – did i misread the post before mine?! i thought that it was posted by Nunquam, not RA.. maybe i’m seeing things, haha. sorry for the mix up :]
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 9:54 PMReply
Unbiased parent – I’ll apologize for coming off like that statement wasn’t totally thought through.
It was.
“Its your job RA (since you’ve taken on the mantle) to show those of us that have never spent time on campus an accurate account and all I am saying is that you lose your credibility when you post things that sound as if you are poking fun or just downright negative.”
I’ve been following this blog nearly since it started. So I think I can say, that is not R.A.’s job.
It’s ok that you ‘think’ that. But you’re wrong.
And if you post something like this:
“wow….good job making fun of them…seriously thats a bit hypocritical if you ask me. What are you guys striving for, excellence in negativity?”
here.
You are going to find that just about everyone on the blog is thinking, “They have no idea what T.M. was like.”
Just thought I’d let you know right away, if that is what you are going to be saying, no one is going to care. and will probably skip over what you type. I know there was a while when there was a lot of flack like that on here and I just didn’t read the ignorant attacking post. They were pointless.
If you are reading THIS blog, you are going to see the negative. and you are definitely going to see some flesh. (The same amount you’d see at church. it’s just when we’re at church we cover it up and put a bow on it so people don’t pay as close attention…)
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 9:57 PMReply
Another thing too….
“your statement “No matter how performance drive an environment is, there will be imperfections b/c we are human” is humorous to me as you clearly are saying they are humans however there does not seem to be an ounce of grace given when in fact “they are human”. Because you yourself are human, we are to give grace to you but you screw up I’m sure just as TM has.”
Have you even read the blog? Read some of the ‘real stories.’ and try saying that again…
unbiased parentsays:April 17, 2010 at 9:59 PMReply
Shiloh, thank you for your thoughts, I do appreciate it.
In rebuttal, it is RA’s job as she started this site and keeps up with therefore she has taken on the responsibility to present the facts and the truth and to be able to hear all sides of the spectrum.
Further you are absolutely right when you say everyone on the blog is thinking I have no idea what I’m talking about but if you have such strong concerns about TM, wouldn’t you want those of us that have no idea to develop a strong idea to keep anyone we can from going to TM? If thats the mentality, then yeah you may be helping each other but you aren’t really doing anything to stop what happens at TM, do you know what i mean?
On a differnt note, what have you seen change in your life in being a part of this site? *I don’t mean that in an attacking, negative way, I genuinely want to know* 🙂
Thanks
unbiased parentsays:April 17, 2010 at 10:01 PMReply
your second statement doesn’t make sense to me. yes I have read most of the blog however I don’t see what your getting at
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 10:29 PMReply
Unbiased parent. I SO appreciate your last two comment being kind and forgiving and looking to make peace, when you could have responded much differently. 🙂
So how has my life been changed since reading this blog?
I’ll try to make this post short –
I left T.M. a MESS. I didn’t go back to church, I didn’t trust anyone in spiritual leadership, I was way confused about the gospel, I thought everything T.M. taught was true and I thought I was a total failure because I left.
So.
A year later (I am still TOTALLY feeling like because I ‘broke my commitment’ I was a failure. I had SO MUCH shame) I joined another ministry and ended up being around a TON of alumni. (no joke…. 50 at least. Everyday.) and I HATED myself. I felt like they were all judging me and that they would always be better than me because they are good Christians. (this is not a bitter overstatement. I thought those exact thoughts) I tried to avoid any alumni at all cost’s.
Then, I found this blog and spent about 2 weeks having a total breakdown. It was the first time I realized it was actually OK that I left! And that T.M. was wrong! The way they treated me was WRONG! It was so freeing. -I hope this doesn’t sound like I’m trying to put the blame on T.M. for all my problems. What I mean is, they manipulated me in a lot of ways during my time there (I would argue in ways most didn’t experience) and I thought because I wasn’t living up to their standard and couldn’t give them everything they wanted I was a complete screw up and it was all my fault that things went so badly my G.I. year.
It was freeing in a way that I could finally stop thinking, “I’m terrible, I’m terrible, I’m terrible, if only I was as good as that person. I’m just never gonna be good enough.”
And I actually (rather quickly) started thinking, “wow. I’m actually good enough! and the stuff that happened to me wasn’t my fault. And there are a bunch of other people that experienced the same thing I did.”
And it really didn’t take much more time after that when I started realizing Dave Hasz is a person, with a family and so is Ron and God loves them. And I totally forgave everyone at T.M.
And I really knew it was producing fruit because when I would get around the alumni at that ministry I wouldn’t be afraid of them anymore (some of them were in leadership over me.) Their opinion had no grip on me.
Then I just stuck on with the blog cause I like R.A.’s work. 🙂
So for me, the result was love I guess.
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 10:46 PMReply
And about that other comment (I hate to bring this up but I feel like it’s worth mentioning)
In reference to the website-
You didn’t go to T.M. so you’re gonna have to take my word on this, It really is like Robby said,
They HAMMER into your head perfection. They also hammer into your head that T.M. is the BEST of the BEST. Mr. Hasz openly admits he thinks interns are doing above and beyond what other youth in the nation are doing. and I have heard him MULTIPLE times bash other ministries. He says it in a personal manner, interns don’t even realize what he’s saying.
A quote (which BREAKS MY HEART) from worldview May ’08
(preface – 5 staff members had decided at this time they were going to leave T.M. and move to IHOP)
“You don’t need to go to another ministry to pray. You can go to your dorm room and pray. There are youth that are dying around this nation and God needs us to work together to save lives.”
Did he mention IHOP? no. But he sure made T.M. sound like it was the best place God to use those interns
uhg.
Anyways, then they promote True North (check out the website) as a GREAT leadership experience… when all interns know it’s not. If you think T.N. is top of the line leadership training you are mistakin.
So they are LYING and they mess up their spelling.
They’re making it look like they’ve got experts working on the deal, and tricking the interns into thinking THEY are the experts, and then they don’t even double check the web-site. I’m assuming that SOMEONE over the intern that typed it is supposed to double check it? Well even if they did, two people missed it.
I don’t actually have respect for T.M. I don’t agree with MOST of what they teach as ‘true Christianity.’ So as for giving T.M. ‘grace.’ Let God be the judge. I’m not responsible for giving T.M. grace. They lied to me and cheated me (big time) it’s not the victims job to make the culprit sound like a good person who just sorta kinda messed up that one time.
Liz BRsays:April 17, 2010 at 10:47 PMReply
Oh, RA, you take everything too seriously!
I mean, you make light of things too much!
I mean, you don’t do enough to actually CHANGE Teen Mania.
I mean, you need to move on!
I mean, you should try harder to please EVERYONE! ESPECIALLY ME!
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 10:53 PMReply
Lol.
Liz… I typed out two VERY long post’s try to communicate what you did in 5 {perfect} lines.
Shilohsays:April 17, 2010 at 11:03 PMReply
Sheesh I got little sister syndrome. (trying to please everyone)
Unbiased parent – you really are free to speak your opinion here. Just cause we’re being bold doesn’t mean you can’t be either. It’s kinda like a family on here.
Sometimes discussions get heated but you don’t hold that against a person. From what I’ve seen almost everyone actually likes to work out our differences and make sure people feel understood.
Anonymoussays:April 18, 2010 at 1:56 AMReply
unbiased parent-
How have you been affected or changed by reading this site?
Recovering Alumnisays:April 18, 2010 at 6:06 AMReply
unbiased parent – I hear what you are saying and I’ve tried to be very even handed in the way I run this blog so that people can see the FACTS about how TM runs and how people are affected. There are nearly 200 posts on this blog documenting all aspects of life at the Honor Academy. Even if you feel my character is not up to snuff – does that change the facts of how the HA operates? They are ABUSIVE. The contributors to this blog have shown that again and again with the stories they’ve shared. I hardly think that my laughing at their inconsistencies is a comparable crime…
Perhaps we are just dealing with a difference in personalities here?…And honestly, part of the recovery process is being able to laugh about what you experienced. When you can laugh at it, at least to me, it means the pain is subsiding.
Also, you said “if you have such strong concerns about TM, wouldn’t you want those of us that have no idea to develop a strong idea to keep anyone we can from going to TM?”
If you have been reading this blog for months and still don’t feel strongly about the abusive environment at TM, I don’t think there is anything else I can say to get you there.
Thoughts?
Moriahsays:April 18, 2010 at 8:34 AMReply
Unbiased parent.
I have a hard time accepting criticism from you about this blog when you yourself say that you have nothing to do with Teen Mania.
I understand that it is a public space and anyone is free to comment, but I have a hard time believing that you have just randomly chosen to participate in discussion without being vested in Teen Mania in some way.
To be continued . . . .
intern94says:April 18, 2010 at 10:59 AMReply
Im going to have to agree with Moriah on this one….
Recovering Alumnisays:April 18, 2010 at 2:10 PMReply
Anon Girl from a few comments back – you might have more luck answering your questions over at the forum. Click the orange button on the right.
Shannon Kishsays:April 18, 2010 at 3:27 PMReply
Moriah, Great points!
Those of us that HAVE experienced the HA, know why we laugh at the lack of excellence in some things… because we were so controlled by the belief that if we didn’t do tings perfectly, God somehow doesn’t love us as much.
Being free from that belief has allowed us to laugh at how we used to believe and how wrong that belief was.
I believe a famous book speaks highly of laughter throughout it. Check the Bible. 🙂
Anonymoussays:April 18, 2010 at 8:45 PMReply
I’ve always wondered who holds the Leadership at Teen Mania accountable? I know that TM has a Board of Directors, but is there anyone who comes in to review treatment of the finances, living conditions, treatment of the interns, qualifications of the leaders/managers, etc?
I know that in my own life I have chosen to surround myself with people who are willing to say things that might be hard to hear, because I want to grow in my understanding of God’s Word and what he desires of me. If I didn’t want to change for the better, I would find a group of people who would never tell me the truth 🙂
I’d be interested to see who is reviewing the practices at TM. And, is Teen Mania’s Leadership TRULY open to changing, or are they simply looking for people to affirm their current roles? (My guess would be the latter)
Shilohsays:April 18, 2010 at 9:10 PMReply
@ R.A.
I CAN’T WAIT FOR MONDAY’S POST!!!!
Shannon Kishsays:April 19, 2010 at 8:26 AMReply
Anon-
ECFA is supposed to review their finances, as TM is a member.
As for who reviews anything else, I am not sure that it happens.
Eric P.says:April 19, 2010 at 9:35 AMReply
@Unbiased Parent– First of all, typos in general are inherently funny anyway. But considering it in context, it’s like watching a bully trip over his own feet just after he’s berated you for not watching where you’re going. Who can be blamed for at least cracking a smile?
Nunquam Honorablussays:April 19, 2010 at 10:29 AMReply
I side with Eric P. It’s just like watching a vegetarian being told she just ate chicken.
It’s schadenfreude; makin’ the world a better place to be.
Laurensays:April 19, 2010 at 3:29 PMReply
I’ve wondered about the accountability at TM as well. It just seems like whatever Ron Luce says goes…
Also, to those who would like to hold RA responsible for producing ALL the facts and figures of TM and regulating this blog like a professional psychologist, I think it would be good to remember that this is a personal blog. Blogs by nature are up for whatever the author chooses to write/expose/invite/etc. While we do appreciate all the work that RA is putting into this and it is a HUGE help for many people (including myself), I do not believe it is RA’s intention to replace Ron Luce or Dave Hasz (or any other “all powerful” leader) with him/herself. RA is simply attempting to create a safe place for discussion (which is admittedly difficult on the internet).
carriesays:April 19, 2010 at 5:50 PMReply
I think something that is not being mentioned here, which I think is very important, is that there is no Love in elitism. And it is so easy to get away from Love, get sidetracked…but Love does not boast, it does not make itself important. It is humble, it forgives, and it covers a multitude of inequities. Thank you for reminding me of that simple truth.
Anonymoussays:April 19, 2010 at 7:57 PMReply
@ Lauren VERY well put! This is RA’s personal blog and I’m thankful that he has opened it up to us the way he has.
I, in my cynical, human, mind ENJOY the sarcasm and giggling at irony and hypocrasy. The time I spent at TM and the years that followed were horrible years! I assure you I am not bitter. But, I appreciate when people are real and can make light of what was (and still is for those currently involved) a ridiculous set of standards given to us to live up to with no consideration for WHEN we would ultimately FAIL to live up.
As you have stated unbiased, you have never been there so not only do I discount ANYTHING you have to say to criticize those of us that were there, living it daily. I don’t care if you realize the truth in the first hand accounts or not. Or whether you find RA credible or not. Or if you think we’re scorned or not. Maybe some of us are! Maybe that is a valid place in “recovery” and so if I *am* bitter and scorned, who has the right to tell me how quickly I’m supposed to get over that? The truth remains, the accounts are real, the depiction is accurate, the abuse is a real thing. Why is the writer of a personal blog supposed to be held in higher accountability than TM leadership? I would conclude that while you are certainly as welcome to post here as anyone else, this blog was not intended for you. Keep that in mind.
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