If you are new here, it is important to understand how Teen Mania has responded to the many concerns we have raised here on the blog. As you will see in the synopsis below, I have done everything in my power to facilitate constructive dialogue and move towards reconciliation. At every turn, Teen Mania has rebuffed my initiatives with lies and insults.
You may be surprised to know that when I began this blog, I fully believed that Dave Hasz and Ron Luce were sincere people who did not understand the damage they were doing. I fully trusted their motives while recognizing that their methods were misguided. Over the past several months, my attitude has changed. Teen Mania’s interaction with me over the past year, in addition to the 100+ intern stories I’ve heard no longer allows me to view Teen Mania as anything except willfully and knowingly abusing interns. This abuse has caused many interns to lose their faith and their health – physical, mental and emotional.
June 2009 – Blog begins.
November 2009 – Email conversation with Dave Hasz in which he fails to acknowledge the damage the Honor Academy has done and ends the dialogue prematurely.
January 2010 – I sent a 20 page certified letter to every member of the Board of Directors which outlined the most pressing concerns with regards to physical abuse, emotional abuse and spiritual abuse.
February 8, 2010 – The Board of Directors responds through member Mark Lewandowski. They solicit more stories from alumni. We have a very warm conversation about the issues. Things look promising.
March 2010 – I send an email to several hundred alumni notifying them that the blog is available to them if they were hurt by Teen Mania.
March 2010 – Ron Luce responds by sending an email to the entire alumni body which misrepresents the interactions between myself and Teen Mania. He also misconstrues my concerns as personal problems, ignoring the dozens of interns who have also presented their stories on the blog and in the comments. Overall, he fails to take any responsibility for the problems at the HA and blames me for “struggling.”
April 28, 2010 – Mark Lewandowski and I speak over the phone where he assures me that a full, thorough investigation will be conducted by a panel of outside experts.
May 28, 2010 – Just a month after this conversation, the Teen Mania Board of Directors puts up the “Recovering Alumni Response” website. They claim that an investigation was conducted and they found no fault with Teen Mania. This so-called “investigation” was done by the Board of Directors themselves and one clinical psychologist (who happened to be the brother of a high ranking Teen Mania staff member.) Regardless of their promises, there was NO outside panel and NO real investigation! Further, the response was littered with both lies and insults. Teen Mania has since taken down the website.
June 28th, 2010 – Honor Academy initiates a conference call for all alumni. For the first hour or so, Dave Hasz responds to questions that were emailed in. The last hour he takes live phone calls. The call is absolutely riddled with lies and half-truths. Examples: Beating Your Body to Make it Your Slave, ESOAL and Extra-Biblical Moral Standards
September 2010 – Tyler, TX Station KLTV does a 3 part news story on ESOAL.
In this post, I provide irrefutable proof that both Jon Hasz and David Hasz lied to the KLTV reporter.
After the 3rd segment, Teen Mania announced on their Recovering Alumni Response website that they would convene “an independent committee of experts that will evaluate every aspect of this retreat.” As with their original sham investigation, this panel is comprised largely of their personal friends and ministry associates.
October 2010 – After the news story, my home is vandalized and Teen Mania leadership starts a smear campaign claiming I give drugs and alcohol to interns in an attempt to get them dismissed. These are of course, complete lies without any evidence.
As you can see, David Hasz, Ron Luce and the entire Teen Mania Board of Directors have repeatedly lied to us and about us. They have not repented nor acknowledged the many wrongs they have committed against 15 years worth of interns. Therefore, at this time, they have made reconciliation and/or working together impossible. As I have already gone to them in the spirit of Matthew 18, I will now continue with the rest of that verse, “If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. “
38 comments:
Okay, i just need to ask: in your first email correspondence with Dave, it *does* appear to me that he apologized and you accepted that apology. Can you explain why you say now that “At every turn, Teen Mania has rebuffed my initiatives with lies and insults,” and that they have not apologized or sought restitution and reconciliation in this situation?
I’m just trying to see your perspective here…
Because an apology without real change is not sincere. Also, because when it comes down to it, he said that, “posting gossip blogs and running down other Christians is certainly not a Biblical way to handle this.”
When I explained, “Dave, it is unfair to call this a gossip blog. I believe I have represented your teachings fairly, often backed by your own words via blog comments or sermons and clearly stated why I Biblically do not agree. I believe Paul often called out those he thought were teaching a dangerous gospel – in public – and then backed it up with why they were wrong. Am I doing something different? I am not impugning your motives or misrepresenting the internship. In fact, this blog is not about “being offended” but about what I believe are dangerous and hurtful ideas that you promote in the name of God. I believe there is Biblical evidence that the culture and teachings of the HA are, in many ways, not in the spirit of Jesus and this is what I work to expose. You are free to disagree, obviously.”
He never responded to me after that. The next major communication was Ron Luce saying, “we have tried repeatedly to dialog with him/her to help him/her work through the struggles and challenges that he/she’s facing.”
Thats a lie.
Okay, well then I guess I think that you should be saying something more along the lines of “Although TM administrators have apologized to me and expressed in words a sincere desire to work on these issues, I have not seen a sufficient change in their actions and therefore feel that this apology was not sincere.”
Saying that they never apologized to you is, in my opinion, misrepresenting the truth. And we all know that you hate when people do that;-)
LM – You are putting words in my mouth – I never even used the word apologize in my post.
I believe what I’ve written is accurate. They have rebuffed my initiatives with lies and insults. At any rate, I provided all the supporting documentation and people are free to make up their own minds.
I’m not meaning to put words in your mouth- I’m not speaking solely about this specific post, I’m saying your overall attitude on the site shows that you don’t believe they have given you a real apology. I believe that you have said things to support that, for example:
“There is no repentance here. There is no remorse. ” -11/1
“It’s another thing to hear their story and refuse to apologize, make amends or provide restitution.
Every single time TM leadership has contacted me it has been to attempt to cover their a***** and NEVER to apologize for what they’ve done.”
-10/22
LM -I stand by those remarks. An empty apology is no apology at all.
LM-
An insincere apology means that someone has apologized for the sake of decorum, but has no real intention of changing or no real sorrow over the hurt apologized for.
In other words, it is a form of deception…a lie.
Right, and that’s why I said I feel that it might be better for RA to explain that fully rather than just saying they never apologized- refer to my comment at 10:30am for what I mean. That’s all I’ve got right now tho, I need to go back to work:-)
LM I have to disagree with you here and have to point out that your comments here really feel like they are questioning the heart of a woman that has given much in the last 3 years to helping those of us that have been screwed up by TM in one way or another.
A real and sincere apology is not one riddled with back handed comments and spite like those that Dave and Ron have given. A true Godly person could never call such an apology. We all fail in some way but their pattern when she has tried so many times has shown that they have no love or care for their chattel (interns) or what happens to them. I do not see what they have given as an apology either but rather yet another in a long series of lies. God Help Dave Hasz on the day of judgement because with the lack of love he has I question if he is truly saved and will have Jesus to hold his hand!
@heartsfire
> “your comments here really feel like they are questioning the heart of a woman that has given much in the last 3 years to helping those of us that have been screwed up by TM in one way or another. “
Be careful that you don’t fall into the same flawed reasoning TM does when trying to defend themselves: “Don’t question us because we are doing good work for God”
Having said that, I kind of agree with Lisa Marie in that it might be more accurate and productive to say they have only given us empty apologies, rather than no apologies at all. I completely understand and agree that an empty apology is no apology (great comic as always, Eric :P), but someone might still interpret “they have not apologized” to mean “they have not even said they are sorry”, which is not true. They HAVE said they are sorry. They just haven’t done anything about it, which makes the apology empty and meaningless.
Heartsafire-
This has nothing to do with questioning RA’s heart, honestly. I just saw that Dave did apologize in his first email to her, and I wondered why she has been saying that no one has apologized for any of this. I understand why she believes the apology to be a false and empty one, but I just think it’s important to represent the situation exactly as it is- there was a written apology, but no sufficient action taken.
However, you are more than welcome to disagree with me- honestly. I’m learning that i don’t need to jump to my own defense all the time, lol.
Point of order: Everyone’s talking about “apologies” when what RA said is “They have not repented.” I see a few (perfunctory and quickly backpedalled) “I’m sorry”s (sorries?) in there, but zero evidence of repentance (i.e. genuine intent to change) in any meaningful sense.
I am curious.. how do you plan to involve the church at this point? Just wondering 🙂
Anon 7:54. Isn’t “the church” the group of all people who consider themselves followers of Christ? So…. this blog is an act of involving “the church”
Accountability is a problem with para organizations. They’re not accountable to anyone (from an official authority stand point) that they don’t want to be. TM isn’t a church, it isn’t a school, it isn’t an employer. They have managed to find the least accountable niche there is (in the realm of public organizations). They target individuals who are not minors [so they are extended no additional government protections], and yet aren’t adults that have the wisdom to recognize deceptive practices.
TM is a prime example of disaster waiting to happen. If there’s a problem, it’s left to themselves to evaluate it. They form their own boards and oversight committees, and they have no motivation [beyond PR moves] to seek differing opinions.
It’s a genius move. It rivals the lip service of politicians. Dave Hasz for president! [I say it with irony, but how many interns say it for real?] He would fit right in with the characters in Washington. Who trusts politicians? Nobody.
WOW! I’ve followed this site for a little while, but not carefully. I did a bunch of reading & watching articles and videos today. I’ve been carefully looking at the facts. Let me just say at this exact moment, I feel literally, physically sick to my stomach! Eck!
Who do some of these people at TM think they are?!! Dave needs his ring taken away. That’s what they do there when someone acts dishonorably, right? His arrogance and lies are as bad as, well, as bad as…. I really hate to say this, but it’s true – He’s as bad right now as an unrepentant, corrupt polotician.
@Ian, You’re on to something there. I agree 100%.
To balance this out, I do truly fear for many in the leadership of that organization. I pray for their lost, decieved souls and those they go on to decieve! I fear that one day they will stand before Christ, in judgment, saying, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?” My greatest fear for them is that Jesus will say to them, “I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
RA-
your group is like an AA meeting hi there my name is so and so and i am a recovering alumni really wake up doesnt the bible say judge for the less of us be judged you graduated like what 8 years ago you are still like a stinkin intern lolol you make me laugh so hard such a naive group a people even when they so called get hurt dang theres stuff I am hurt by do I discuss that no because as members of the line we are suppose to uphold the ministry not talk smack about it. There is no way you are still hurt, a counselor would slap you telling you your in denial move on
I’m going to leave that one up, just so people can see what we are all dealing with. 🙂
Please don’t dignify the ignorance by responding.
RA well you know it’s true I dont understand your so called ignorance
Oh, RA, it’s so hard not to feed the troll…
Can I just say I’m amazed that someone would think it’s an insult to say this is like an AA meeting? Poor RA, the ignorance is astounding.
RA, I’m actually really glad you left that comment up- that issue of how we’re taught not to speak ill of TM or let it be viewed in a negative light…it’s been on my mind a lot lately. I’d love to see a blog post about that, maybe with some research on how that is a tactic of spiritual abuse…?
Just a suggestion;-)
Lisa Marie – duly noted! I will get to work on that… 🙂
Actually I think in a way isn’t this bashing tm revealing this stuff in a since wrong I know be personally I have been deeply hurt but I am glad I went to the ha I would have never went if I didn’t see thus blog, there are good things that tm does but there are things I don’t agree on so why post this I’m not bashing this site I think it would better be discussed on fb personally so people aren’t swayed into not coming at all Ra I bet there’s things that the ha did well for you but maybe the way they handle things might be lacking
Anonymous, your comment about “TM bashing” has been answered many, many times in different posts by RA. Search through the site and you’ll find them. Also, if you want a fresh conversation on the subject, the comments on the next post, Meagan’s Story, just addressed it. Scroll down to the end for some recent thoughts on the subject.
Many of us don’t consider the hurt we experienced worth it. I, for one, am still not “over” the spiritual abuse I encountered at the HA, and I was a 2006 January. My story is far from being the worst, either. Spiritual abuse is never okay, and it’s never justified or offset by any good experiences had at the same place. I made some great friends there, and I really enjoyed some of the LTE’s. Am I glad I went? No, not really. The crushing feeling of constant failure to live up to the “ideal Christian” never went away. It’s only now, after being extensively involved in a recovery group at my church, that I can start to let go of that. If I can help someone see both sides of the HA (all they have on their websites is hype), and they decide not to go because of it, then good for them. If TM was more honest about what HA is really like, maybe they would have chosen not to go without the help of this site.
I’m honestly glad you had good experiences there. But please, please don’t discount or bury the deep hurt you experienced. It will come out eventually, and the longer you wait, the harder it will be to deal with.
RA, you, and now many others know where I stand on these issues. I also feel the fear for the leadership @ TM. Standing before Christ demands a holy fear in all of the children who daily strive to live Christ in a dead world. God never told us to hide our testimony, and the experience at TM is indeed a part of your testimony in this world. It must be shared! As Christians, we have nothing to hide, and nothing to fear in this world. Keep us posted if there is anything we can do to help. Love you bunches RA!
Melissa
RA,
I am SO PROUD of you.
You have done so much work, research and have spent countless hours doing a respectable thing by asking these leaders of TM to consider the effects of their abuse on young men and women.
You’re not bashing them, and your intentions are good. The sad thing is that people are so often blinded by celebrity statuses, like that of Ron Luce, that they lose sight of the horrible and abusive things that have been done here.
If I had the money, I’d hire you a crew to document your story. Then, I’d hire you a publicist. The most important thing is that your story and those of the other TM students and interns who’ve been damaged GETS HEARD. People need to hear this, so when they think about going to TM, they think twice. Education and this dialogue may prevent more abuse from happening.
Either way, I’m so proud of you and I’ll stand by you til the end.
Lisa K.
Anon – I understand that feeling well. I’m sorry you are going through that. Hang in there…we are here to help you process through it.
Anon- God failed me too. But, truth is setting me free!
God as you know it, is what has failed you. Open your mind to the possibility that when you figure out what God is to you, it will look much different than you’ve ever imagined and may not be in the confines of a religion organized by men.
Hey guys I’m.Luayy Fadel. And I was a prospective intern twice but never got through the hole
program i want through the first week. I hard Mr hesz. welcome speech and I was a missionary for ge I was on .Dallas z 07 I got sucked into the ha. One reason is that I have aspergers and the funny thing is that I proved that teen mania and there donation system is not full proof they check.if the money is even stolen or from the government I used my social security money Im.on ssi ! I made a big iusse for teen mania witch was that I was a liability lol caz I’m a sanke. To teen mania I used illegal funding to fund my 08 account so they dismiss me and I miss around with a prospective intern. I’m going to get into details ! I would call the hole ministry and bug the daylights out of them. So they sick.of me. There rules really sucks I didn’t whatever I wanted. On my first week of the ha
How can someone get sexually abused at teen mania ?
Why did teen mania. Was made. Is Ron really crazy.
Does teen mania really tell people to get off there meds. Why does teen mania take people with mental illness and people with learning disabilities
Sabre–request for TM definition?
Seems to have been specifically chosen; so if there is nothing to hide, please clarify: a simple, precise meaning according to your Mission Statement, so we ALL CAN COMPREHEND what you mean.
Thanks
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