In 2 posts dated Jan 28 and Jan 30, 2008, Dave Hasz started this dialogue on his blog (which has since gone down):
In other words if you were going to let someone speak into your life about your spiritual condition or your pursuit of God what would “qualify” or “disqualify” them from speaking. This could get a bit controversial.
If someone drank would that impact your thinking? Should it? What if they smoked? What if they chewed? What if they told dirty jokes? What if they were recently saved? … What if he liked to cuss? What if she questioned God’s existence seriously at least once a year? What if this person was massively insecure?
Some of you stated that you would read it anyway because everyone sins…. this is a bit of an odd statement. Of course everyone sins, but some more than others. There are books that have been written by authors who are walking in victory over sin – why not read those? Apparently many of you have much more time in your lives than I do, I cannot read every book written, there just is not time. So I have to be pretty selective. If you knew that the author was saved, but wrestling with all the issues mentioned in the previous post would you spend your time allowing that individual to speak into your life on spiritual matters?
That is an excellent question, Dave. Let me think about some of my favorite authors and Bible characters to see how they “measure up” against your litmus test.
Moses was disobedient – he didn’t even get to see the promised land. And I really thought he would be “always honorable.” Oh well, guess I’ll rip out the first five books of my Bible.
King David was an adulterer and a murderer. I am going to stop reading the Psalms right away. I definitely don’t want that kind of person influencing me spiritually.
The prophet Elijah was suicidal at times, so I better not follow his example either. Too bad his adversity quotient just wasn’t higher.
Abraham was a liar. Count him out.
Job questioned God. Who does he think he is anyway?
Gideon – man, talk about insecurity. Who qualified him to be a leader?!
Solomon was a disobedient polygamist who worshipped many gods. Wisest man ever, my ass!
Mother Teresa struggled with lifelong depression and doubt. What a loser.
Brennan Manning is an alcoholic, so pardon me while I burn my copy of “The Ragamuffin Gospel.”
Ted Haggard is a homosexual. Good thing he never accepted your invitation to speak to at Battlecry events. Oh wait, nevermind.
Gee, now that I think about it, it is pretty hard to tell what kind of sin is in a person’s life. After all, how can you see what is in a person’s heart?
And really, the most important question is: What sin can possibly disqualify someone from being used by God?
Well, there isn’t one. Because their righteousness never qualified them in the first place.
16 comments:
Colorado guy said…
I find this very interesting. Dave is the one who told us that it was a waste of a leaders time and disrespectfull to ask someone a question without reading their book first. He said that we should read more than we do. I wonder whats an acceptable author to him.
June 30, 2009 7:54 AM
Anonymous said…
This one is a little hard (I do agree with most of your post’s though)
I mean, yeah, There are totally books and people I dont seek out to speak into my life because they are spiritually imature. and then it just gets confusing (lol. cause I’M spiritually imature.)
I fully see the elitism attitude and judgment as well. but It’s not REALLY healthy to let just anyone speak into your life.
right?
September 27, 2009 10:08 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Everyone is at a different point of maturity and discernment…so yes I think there are definitely some things that may not be appropriate at certain stages in your walk. But, I think the goal would be to be able to read the ideas of almost anyone and be able to engage them. Instead of just shutting them down and saying they are evil.
September 27, 2009 11:32 AM
Ben said…
This is my standing favorite post. Well said!
November 3, 2009 1:34 PM
Anonymous said…
Maybe I’m late to the party, but I don’t see where he said they are evil.
December 8, 2009 5:32 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Anonymous – you’d have to be an intern to understand that comment. Though it wasn’t stated in the post I quoted, Dave commonly refers to even the slightest mistakes as “wicked sin” etc. Interns will recognize and agree that I’ve not misrepresented his stance.
December 8, 2009 10:52 AM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Okay, I just have to say that this is most likely my favorite post yet, RA. Ironically, when I first found this blog, it was the one I hated the most. Haha, oh how faithful the Lord is to His children.
The last two sentences have stuck powerfully with me for the past few months, and it brings me to a true point of humility when others who I perceive as “less holy than me” try to offer their wisdom. Oh man, good stuff.
Thank you.
January 16, 2010 7:20 PM
katydid said…
RA, this is one of my favorite posts–LOVE your points on the various Bible characters and authors–WELL said!!! I would love to hear Dave’s response.
February 1, 2010 11:50 PM
Dan said…
I’ll jump on the bandwagon and say that this is by far one of my favorite posts. I’ve commiserated about this exact stuff before, and you’ve articulated it so well.
March 10, 2010 10:14 PM
Shannon Kish said…
I wonder what Dave would say about reading a book written by an atheist?
“Study to show thyself approved” comes to mind. As a Christian, I used to read opposing views to learn more about them… little did I know that picking up a book about atheism would draw me closer to atheism. 🙂
April 9, 2010 2:01 PM
Anonymous said…
I believe the phrase that best contradicts thinking like this is “Ex Opere Operado.” It is usually used when referring to the efficacy of the sacraments. The phrase means “from the work done.” What it usually is referring to is that the work of the sacrament is done by the sacrament, not by the one offering the sacrament. See, we’ve already had this argument way back in the 13th century and settled it then. The person who is doing the work is not the vessel through with the grace of God flows. It is the work itself that allows God’s grace to be received. The spiritual condition of the worker is irrelevant. See, all those theology classes I took didn’t go to waste.
April 10, 2010 6:07 PM
Anonymous said…
This is a really good discussion which is why Christ rebuked the Pharisees. They thought that being righteous was an outward show. “look at me I’m super spiritual”.
That is why Christ used common people instead of the religious leaders of his time. If Christ can speak through a donkey, who am I to question who Christ speaks through. God can use anybody and we have to stop putting Him in a box.
At the end of the day it is about a personal relationship with Him. I can’t judge your relationship and you can’t judge mine.
It wasn’t until after I left TM that I began to hear clearly again from the Lord. I received healing from the condemnation and pressure and I am still recovering as well.
While at the HA I was one of the leaders of the dance team, an ACA, on the honor council and so much more. We were so busy that I never had time to stop and think. I went down Gideon’s road and was chosen to become a core advisor but while on winter break, I decided not to go back.
I was at a place where I didn’t think I could handle the pressure and I didn’t want to subject those who weren’t ready under me as well. When I told my DI that I wasn’t coming back, it felt like I was cut off. There were a few interns that checked on me from time to time that I was close with. I thank God for Michele, Amber, Dixie, and Jen Shealy.
I know that I’m called to work with young women. I just chose to go down a different path. I intend to show the love of Christ in a non-judgmental and uncritical way. There is a hurting and dying world that needs the love and compassion of Christ. There are also so many wounded in the Church because of condemnation and self-righteous saints.
What Christians need to understand that on our “good” days our righteousness is still considered filthy rags. It we were called because of our righteous Christ wouldn’t have had to die on the cross.
There are many people who are living victoriously over sin. However, if we judge others according to their shortcomings God will judge us as if we committed the sin. (judge not unless ye be judged. you will be judged by the same measure) paraphrase.
We will never be in a position to judge the spirituality of others. The Bible is clear no one knows the spirit of a man except the Spirit, the Holy Spirit.
The Bible says and this how they will know that ye are my disciples that ye have love one to another. It doesn’t say that ye know all scriptures, serve in 20 ministries, have 30 quiet times per day, etc.
1 John 4
Test the Spirits
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
April 18, 2010 2:06 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Anon – Good word! True dat!
April 18, 2010 2:07 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Anon- I know you, I think.
April 18, 2010 3:31 PM
Lauren said…
Thank you, Anonymous commenter. That was beautiful – just what my heart needed today.
And RA, I burst out laughing when I read this post – particularly the bit on Ted Haggard. Then I realized I’m in a public place. Oh well, laughter is good for the soul! This post is great!
April 19, 2010 4:17 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
My favorite part is “wisest man ever, my ass!”
lol ass
April 19, 2010 4:53 PM
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