(2021 Update: Video has since been taken down. I believe this video was a training on room inspections during Orange Block. If anyone has a copy, please email a link to recoveringalumni at recoveringalumni dot blog.)
I’m really at a loss for words after watching this. I showed some friends and they thought it was a joke.
Really, Hasz, seriously?
91 comments:
What R.A.? This wasn’t normal when you were there? 😉
Oh, yeah, they were a tad… Psycho about room checks. Really over the top. Most people gave up cleaning their rooms cause the ‘standard’ was so impossible. Almost every thursday half the cores in each dorm would be in there for a failed room check. No joke. I remember, they ran out of jobs for us to do within the first 10 minutes most nights. So we’d just go back to finish the rest of our ‘campus.’ (Lights out by 10. homework from C.A. no talking to each other.) yup. Every week… Gosh we got ‘campused’ at least twice a month. AT LEAST.
March 26, 2010 6:49 AM
Anonymous said…
HOLY COW!!!
Things have really gotten intense since 1999!
It was never that specific for me. wow. speechless.
March 26, 2010 7:27 AM
mom of ex-intern said…
Well, as a “mom” here….I’m all for clean rooms–LOL…needless to say, my unexcellent son and his roomies had lots of ‘extra training’…(((sigh)))..LOL
AND “what is this tomfoolery? WHO broke the blinds? Shameful”….what a riot–I needed a laugh this morning…
March 26, 2010 8:12 AM
Shannon Kish said…
Wow. My drawers not being organized a failure? My college, which was pretty strict on room checks, were NOT allowed to look through my drawers, etc. This is clearly a violation of privacy!
Their room inspections seem as strict as the Military. We are seeing a pattern of military-like stuff.
This is ridiculous!
I don’t remember my CAs ever being this strict about room checks. We always passed.
March 26, 2010 8:20 AM
Shannon Kish said…
I certainly hope that you will exhibiting the Honor Council trainings as well, RA. Those are interesting to watch.
March 26, 2010 8:24 AM
Phil Boltz said…
My favorite part of this video is how he’s sort of making things up as he goes along. It seems like there’s this complex philosophy of cleaning and when what needs to be in each spot. You could be really trying to do everything perfectly and still be at the whim of your inspector.
It’s clear that while Dave doesn’t view this as “sin” it is an impeachment of character and integrity. The really sad thing is that the way the HA philosophy creeps into your life is very close to this approach to keeping your room clean. Innumerable rules and contingencies, all targeted to in some way reveal inadequacy in whomever is being examined.
In these situations there is no real potential for a perfect score. If there were a perfect score, the result is not a heart that accounts for roommates by keeping things in order. The end result is just verification that someone has perfectly memorized and executed a set of instructions. A set of instructions that aren’t even applicable in any future situation.
This ability to learn and perform on cue is exactly the cancer that consumes the HA. Interns don’t learn to love, serve, and worship, they learn to pretend, portray, and judge.
It’s heartbreaking to see genuine passion for living in a God centered way get diverted into social performance.
March 26, 2010 8:25 AM
Anonymous said…
Dear Mr. Hasz.
Shut the [insert expletive] up.
March 26, 2010 8:30 AM
Shannon Kish said…
Phil, I would agree. The entire time I was watching the video I was wondering What the Hell does this have to do with my relationship with God? I am all for cleanliness and order, but do not feel as though it is fair to suggest that “the bed is not crisp” equates to not being excellent.
How many of us have “junk drawers” at home? Are they organized and neat? Of course not. they are designed to be a place for the junk that has no other place and therefore by their very nature they are junky looking.
This attitude of perfection is killing TM.
March 26, 2010 8:36 AM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Dang, I totally remember watching this too! Even as an intern I thought this was ridiculous.
Anon 8:30- LOL. While a powerful statement, it still made me laugh pretty hard.
March 26, 2010 9:03 AM
Cesna said…
‘Now, you may be saying to yourself…’
You’re a douche!
Literally what was going through my head pretty much the entire video. I think the trash thing is pretty ridiculous. And the half an inch of not-so-perfect bed being made.
Okay, it’s just… and this… and… yes. Clearly, in the Bible, Jesus said drop everything and follow Him… but make sure your bed is made. Or else, no salvation for you.
March 26, 2010 9:17 AM
Anonymous said…
We had room checks in 1998 but it was nowhere near this ridiculous. (So much for things getting “better”)There is no room for personalities that don’t naturally notice such fine detail. It isn’t a discipline issue. I can look at a room and really believe it looks pristine and then my boyfriend will come along and point out ways it “could” be cleaner.
If I’d been as clear a thinker when I was 18 as I am now (which of course isnt possible cause 18 y/os just ARENT and they KNOW this) I would have left the HA after nothing more than this video. Keep your grubby hands off my dollar, Hasz! You don’t go through my drawers looking to see if I organized my homework! Did I turn it in? Yes. Then who the eff cares how I organize my notes in MY BEDROOM!
March 26, 2010 9:38 AM
gc1998 said…
i am…flabbergasted. it’s ALMOST funny…but…still not. still rage inducing. if i were one of the guys from that “example” room, i would have been SERIOUSLY pissed.
Carol said…
Wow – I had an anxiety attack just watching that video. It was never that legalistic back in 1997, thank God! We had room checks, but no one ever went through my drawers and invaded my privacy like that. It literally makes me sick to think of how the interns now are treated. The HA is NOT military school, NOR is it boot camp.
I agree that folks need to learn discipline and cleanliness, but they should learn discipline in LOVE, not discipline in LEGALISM.
A made bed, sure! Wipe down the blinds, great! Empty the trash, ok, I can accept that! But honestly, WHO ORGANIZES THEIR DRAWERS like that? OCD much????
Just because you have unorganized drawers DOES NOT MEAN YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IS OUT OF WHACK. I know that’s not what Dave is saying, but that’s what A LOT of interns hear.
“An hour of quite time is a must…”
“Drawers need to be perfectly clean and organized…”
“Shoes must be lined up perfectly…”
“You must run at least 3 miles everyday…”
“You do not need down time when you get home from work…”
“Your body will pass out long before you die…”
“Beat your body and make it your slave…”
These are all things I heard in the internship while I was there. While some are good lessons, these things do not gauge your relationship with God. Our worth is not in our cleanliness, nor an hour quiet time.
I can go on and on. I love TM, and I greatly respect DH and the others at TM, but the lessons they are teaching are ridiculous. They need to be MINDFUL of the messages they are teaching to young, moldable minds.
March 26, 2010 10:38 AM
Thaly of the Valley said…
I agreed with being extra clean and anal because living in groups can definitely get chaotic… How effective is this “paying attention to detail training” is yet to be seen. It’s increasingly resembling a military camp though. I do appreciate a clean organized environment because I believe it increases productivity and peace, however Mr. Hasz took it over the top when he began OPENING DRAWERS!!! What the $%#%^%$??? This is beyond ridiculous!!!
I think perhaps this is an intent to set the bar extra extra high knowing that interns will try harder to maintain organization even though they may not fully reach Mr. Hasz’s bar. I don’t remember organization as a method to teach attention to detail being part of the regime while I was interning. What is happening to TM? Life as an intern is very hectic and stressful… they are definitely over the top now!
March 26, 2010 10:39 AM
Anonymous said…
What?! Are you suggesting Jesus didn’t do room checks on his disciples? What kind of leaders was he creating?! Slacker.
March 26, 2010 10:51 AM
Thaly of the Valley said…
I will go as far as to say that Jesus didn’t say you must go be fisherman. You must practice fishermanry at least 5 times a week. Your results should be measured in the following way: IF there are 10 fishermen, you must at least catch 10% of all the fish in the sea or at least 100 lbs per day…. Then you must give 10% to the church, save 25% for your family, and sell the rest for a profit.
March 26, 2010 10:59 AM
Robbie said…
From the checklist of cult characteristics: “The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel.”
Pretty much. :-/
Nunquam Honorablus said…
This reminds me of the excellence mantra at TM:
If you shoot for “good”, you’ll get “poor”.
If you shoot for “great”, you’ll get “good”.
If you shoot for “excellent”, you’ll get “great”.
If you shoot for “perfection”, you’ll get “excellent”.
So we were to strive (yes, strive) for perfection in our jobs, our cleaning, etc. They understood that we can’t actually BE perfect, but to strive for it anyway so that the worst we got was excellence.
Or Pharasitical baggage.
March 26, 2010 11:02 AM
Dan said…
To be the devil’s advocate here, I’m pretty confident that TM’s (and Dave’s) intention (key word, there) is not to tie having a clean room to a person’s spiritual health. Though they inadvertently do so by promoting an overall philosophy that somehow says “If you can’t follow all of our rules, you’re kind of a sub-class Christian/leader/person. If you can, you’re an all-star and deserving of all the benefits a winner gets in a performance-driven environment.”
That’s the danger here. I honestly have no problem with a strict clean room inspection in the right context. Attention to detail really is a good skill to pick up, and “self-discipline” isn’t bad. It’s actually quite good. The danger is when these things are somehow tied to the person’s worth, which is, what I feel TM’s doing whether they think they are or not.
In Dave’s defense, he’s trying to design a program that develops every part of a person, not just his or her relationship with God. I just think Phil B hit the nail on the head. It’s not individual things like this that make the Honor Academy dangerous, it’s the overall philosophy and culture that need to be addressed.
March 26, 2010 11:14 AM
Candor said…
I would like to go to Dave’s house and open every drawer and criticize him. It’s only fair.
March 26, 2010 11:27 AM
KatieNap said…
Aaah! My anxiety is increasing with every minute hearing this: fail, fail, fail.
But don’t worry, it’s only sin if you are rebellious in your heart and give up on trying to meet these completely arbitrary and impossible standards!
Did anyone else have trouble seeing a difference between the drawer that was ‘organized’ and the drawer that was ‘cluttered’? Shiloh’s comment also reminded me of how the dish duty punishment schedule was so long our year that there wouldn’t have been enough days left for us all to complete them.
Come to think of it, they were right. I was rebellious in my heart! This stuff wasn’t even that explicit in ’98, but there’s nothing like impossible standards tied to spiritual worth to bring out a rebellious streak 🙂 Sheesh.
March 26, 2010 11:32 AM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Okay, apologies on my last post.
It’s not “if you shoot for ____ you get ___”.
It’s “if you shoot for ___ you’ll settle for ___”.
My bad.
March 26, 2010 12:08 PM
Anonymous said…
You are being nit-picky here. There is a cleanliness standard that they are trying to uphold… so what?
Everyone knew going into the Honor Academy that it was going to a regimented year!
Seriously.
March 26, 2010 12:13 PM
Z said…
Watch the intro to the video. It’s possible Hasz could be in the wrong career. Instead of leading courses of excellence, he should teach courses to business executives on how to spin good bull shit. I’m serious! This guy is good a spinning bull shit! And I really think he could make a lot of money offering high end executive training on spinning BS to clients, investors, employees, etc. What is he doing at TM? Imagine the money he could charge for executive courses!
z said…
If all the room mates just climb into bed during room inspection, they can totally avoid worrying about bed crispness!
Seriously! Going through ppls drawers like that is a HUGE invasion of privicy. I would be uncomfortable with someone viewing my underwear like that.
I really had trouble telling the difference between the clean drawer and the messy drawer, except that the messy drawer had more stuff in it.
March 26, 2010 12:29 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
lol Anon 12:13, I had no idea that the cleanliness standard would be ANYTHING like that when I got there. It was kind of a surprise that they’d be checking our rooms in the first place.
Seriously.
March 26, 2010 12:29 PM
z said…
Given this isn’t the best sample video, I’m beginning to notice a common thread when Hasz speaks. He speaks a ton about having discipline in the heart, but much less about having love in the heart. That’s sad.
March 26, 2010 12:43 PM
gc1998 said…
his stated purpose for the cleanliness was largely supposed to be out of respect for roommates. i fail to see how someone’s belongings being contained in his/her own designated space…whether organized or not…would impinge on the people with whom he/she was sharing the room.
also, one of the parts that made me SUPER angry was that first bed he showed…the blue bedspread one. i thought that bed was made pretty darn well, but dave still found something to fault. i wonder if dave has ever had to sleep in a plywood triple-decker bunk bed and then try to make said bed? i’m not a super tidy person, but i AM a bed-maker…and the way those beds are constructed makes it really difficult to make them neatly.
there is such a disconnect between the stated, “you are the cream of the crop and will be leaders in the world” and the level of micromanagement that goes on. if someone is the cream of the crop…why must their drawers be inspected? it just…boggles the mind.
March 26, 2010 12:49 PM
z said…
I have a question for those who have attended the HA and are out now.
Did the HA cleanliness standards have any impact on your lives today? For example, do you feel compelled in your day to day life to live up to such standards or do you enjoy the freedom to slack off in a relaxed mess? OR did the HA have no impact on your adult cleanliness habits?
I’m curious to know if Dave’s strategy to build cleanliness discipline into the hearts of interns is at all effective (as problematic as the whole premise is).
March 26, 2010 12:54 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Z- I have always been a fairly clean and organized person. The HA has little effect on my cleanliness and organization. For example, I am not picky about the bed being made (and never have been). My house would NOT live up to Dave’s standard of cleanliness and excellence.
March 26, 2010 1:12 PM
Eric P. said…
I’m sure I’ve read about this in the psalms. My memory’s a bit fuzzy, but doesn’t it say…
Create in me a clean bedroom, O God, and renew a right drawer arrangement within me. Thou dost not desire mercy, else I would give it; thou takest no pleasure in kindness. The sacrifices of the Lord are a crisp bed and well-folded underwear; these, O Lord, thou dost not despise….
Full disclosure, I didn’t watch the video yet since my internet is deficient. I guess I must be a namby-pamby backslider:
Someone’s preaching legalism, Lord, Kum ba Yah…
March 26, 2010 1:33 PM
Eric P. said…
By the way, I’m starting to wonder about this Anonymous person (12:13). On Maggie’s story of being systematically slandered they show up to accuse us of “having a gossip column”… now here they are saying “You are being nit-picky here”!!! Anyone else seeing this?
Log-in-eye disease in its later and progressively degenerative stages.
Shall we submit them to Friends of Irony?
March 26, 2010 1:47 PM
Mike Doughney said…
Z @ 12:18: Since a lot of the planning for Teen Mania happened in a conference room at Procter & Gamble after hours, I’m not surprised the people in charge adopt the BS of corporate America, and not in a good way.
Anybody else ever hear Ron Luce talk about a manager he knew who wanted to see the garages of people he was about to hire? He denied he’d ever do that himself, but perhaps that’s Hasz’ job.
March 26, 2010 1:48 PM
Shiloh said…
Oh Z, that’s a great question! I never thought about it. It DIDN’T help me at all. I’m naturally a pretty lax person. I don’t have an eye to keep things ‘sharp.’
After I left the H.A. I went right back into my old habits. Though, I never really followed the rules at the H.A. either. They were, like I said, psycho. It really did get to the point after the first two months that my room actually agreed that we weren’t going to worry about room check anymore, the stress wasn’t worth it to any of us.
*I wanted to make note that yes, Mr. Hasz makes things up as he goes along. It’s obvious (I think) that he didn’t even pre-check the room before he made a VIDEO about how room checks are supposed to be done!!!!!!!! You would think that as a TEACHER he would be PREPARED in what he’s going to teach!!!!!! I’m upset. And then at the end of the room-check he says, “this room would have failed on about 10 counts.” ugh! GROSS! The poor interns that had that room! I’m seeing like, zero grace here. I can also just see the auditorium. 500 interns thinking, “If it were OUR room we would have had it clean.” or in complete terror, “I thought their room looked really good. How am I ever going to be able to keep my room clean enough!?”
But the grossest thing about it? I did the same thing.
March 26, 2010 1:52 PM
Chalupa said…
Wow. He opened the drawer, ignored the pistol, yet commented on the dollar bill. Now that’s a careful inspection.
March 26, 2010 2:02 PM
Liz BR said…
I want to say something insightful about this video, but the only thing I find myself wanting to type is:
THIS IS INSANE! THAT MAN IS INSANE!
I said it out loud several times as I watched this, and then I called my brother Phil/Caleb and asked if I was a failure because I didn’t crease under my pillow today. In fact, I didn’t even make my bed — OUT OF REBELLION FROM WATCHING THIS VIDEO!
It’s no wonder people leave the HA feeling like failures. The word “failure” is thrown around like nothing — you failed, you failed, you failed, you failed. I don’t care if they’re not linking it to spirituality (or trying not to), if you’re told that many times that you’re a failure, it’s going to sink in!
I feel really bad for Dave’s kids if he ever checks to make sure their rooms are clean. It’s like he’s just making up rules as he goes along. “Shoes can’t be here. . .oh, wait, yes, they can.”
Also, I’ve heard of OCD and projection, but to combine those into one disorder– projecting your OCD onto other people — is impressive!
And finally, I assume the gun in the drawer was fake? Because if he really ignored a gun to pick up a dollar bill (which wasn’t lying out to begin with, jackass, it was in his drawer!), there are some other serious issues to be addressed.
March 26, 2010 2:06 PM
Shiloh said…
Liz, I don’t know you, but I read your post about team awesome baby and laughed all day. I have a nephew. He’s two and can make a slam dunk and hit a tee-ball. He’s an awesome baby. :)~
But- back to topic. I agree. The more I remember the more I think, that man IS insane.
March 26, 2010 2:16 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Eric P- you know the ways of the interwebs, and this makes me happy.
And Z, it didn’t help at all; I’m usually pretty clean, but not organized. I will be the first to admit that, while all my files on my computer are organized to a ridiculous degree, my bedroom lacks the same upkeep.
I will say, that my parents would conduct similar room checks, but not NEARLY as frequently or meticulously (though they would check my drawers and throw all of my stuff to the center of the room if it wasn’t properly put away). So the “invasion of privacy” didn’t even really register with me.
Either way, it didn’t help. Maahaha.
Liz, your last paragraph made me chuckle 😉
March 26, 2010 2:24 PM
Shiloh said…
oh and one last thing (I’m commenting a lot today.) About the dollar bill. I actually really trusted my room mates. We left money out all the time as well as everything else valuable. I don’t think I ever had anything stolen, but if I did, I didn’t really care. I’m just kinda like that. Never had much attachment to material things since I was a kid (and unsaved. It really is just in my personality.)
I felt often we were treated like little kids. I was 20 years old being told that I should hide my stuff because we were living in community and couldn’t trust any one. I think at 20/21 I had enough since in my head to choose if I wanted to ‘hide’ my money or not.
I never locked my door or hid my money. I just didn’t want to. Never had any of it stolen.
It hurt me each time I would hear that in chapel. Cause the verses in the bible that always talked about “Why not rather be offended? Didn’t Jesus DIE for you?!” or “Give generously.” It wasn’t promoted much. Instead we were kinda taught to turn against each other and not trust other Christians!
March 26, 2010 2:26 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
The Internet ate my last comment, but I’m hoping it’ll pop up soon 🙁
Shiloh- totally understand that. I remember Hasz’s exact words: “I have very little mercy for those who steal.”
He went on to define stealing, even to, “oh hey I’m gonna borrow my roommate’s shirt cause I didn’t do laundry”. He said that that was a dismissible offense!
I had a very open policy with my roommates and we agreed that we could borrow each other’s clothes, so long as we asked, unless they weren’t there. If they were on vacation or at an ATF or something, then it was pretty much understood that we could borrow their clothes, provided that we washed them and gave them back.
So I don’t really understand the “you’re supposed to be crystal-clear VULNERABLE with everyone in your core at all times BUT HEY THEY MIGHT STEAL YOUR MONEY” mindset.
March 26, 2010 2:42 PM
Liz BR said…
Off topic: Shiloh, you’re clearly on Team Awesome Baby with a nephew like that! 🙂
On topic: If you’re the best of the best and the most honorable around, why would Dave have to suggest keeping your money hidden away?
March 26, 2010 2:51 PM
Layne said…
I don’t remember room checks. I may have blocked it out, but I honestly think we didn’t have them when I was there.
Part of me wishes he had checked a room in one of the female dorms. I doubt he’d open any of those mysterious drawers on camera, but I’d love to see the reactions.
March 26, 2010 3:02 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Especially with how God will punish you!
There was one RA a few years ago who called together a dorm meeting, because there were girls who had reported that their quarters kept getting stolen.
So this certain staff member prayed, out loud, with BRAND NEW INTERNS in the room, for “intense illness” to fall upon whoever was stealing those quarters. Like, to where they couldn’t get out of bed. Yup.
They never figured out who did it.
March 26, 2010 3:13 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
*RD… not RA… Resident Director…
Forgive me, RA! *falls over*
March 26, 2010 3:18 PM
Former Intern 2000 said…
Only thing I can agree with in this video is the part about not leaving $$$ in a drawer. I had $150.00 stolen while I was in the hospital after a minor car accident I was in.
Otherwise, I also feel REALLY bad for the intern whose room this belonged to.
March 26, 2010 3:19 PM
Lacy said…
it is a leadership academy that in a lot of ways has standards like a military school. They are training you to be a leader. Has anyone heard of the prestigous leadership academy called West Point? What is wrong with that? No one docks the military for being tough on cleaniness. It’s a good thing.
March 26, 2010 4:20 PM
Anonymous said…
Eric P. – This is anon from 12:13, and that was the first time I have posted on any of these rants.
nice try though.
March 26, 2010 4:22 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Lacy, I can sort of see where you’re coming from, but that’s because that was my response when I was an intern, too.
The thing is, that TM tries to model after the military. But they’re not the military. That’s the foundational difference.
And, are you even watching that video? What’s the difference between the two drawers? I’m not trying to sound condescending, I just really want to know.
Side note- I guess I’m dense or something, because when I signed up for the Honor Academy, I had no interest in or knowledge of the “leadership” aspects. I just wanted to go to a place where I could learn more about Jesus.
March 26, 2010 4:30 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Lacy,
The Honor Academy is NOT West Point. Tell me, do you think the President would meet the standards of cleanliness set forth by Dave? Hell, do you think that Dave meets this cleanliness standard?
March 26, 2010 5:34 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Seriously… Has anyone watched the other videos on the Viddler website (the site hosting this video) like the Honor Council trainings.
March 26, 2010 5:38 PM
Anonymous said…
The problem with this kind of over the top regimented structure is that at TM it’s tied to your character and integrity as a person of God whether that’s from intentional teaching by those in authority or just from the general culture it’s clear from many many people that this is what happens.
March 26, 2010 5:58 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Hey Shannon – I did several posts on those honor council videos…click on the honor council tag under categories.
March 26, 2010 6:32 PM
hitchcockhill said…
It’s crazy that it got to this point. When I was an undergrad in 2001 the room checks had common sense. At least I think they did. Someone would poke their head in and if things were in general order then it was good. There was no fine tooth comb, there was no exact scheduled check. Making the room perfect is just another thing to add onto the exhaustive checklist of being a perfect human being who can change the world by leading. What kind of leaders are going to come out of a program where the people are so exhausted from managing all the chaos and categories of all the demands. Frankly – looking back – I’m surprised I didn’t have a nervous breakdown. Well – good thing I didn’t take some of the things seriously. The mens program back then was called Knighthood – and I just decided it wasn’t important for me to do all the assignments to make my way to the Knight status when work and the other courses were already consuming enough. Imagine getting dismissed for being rebellious because your drawer was never properly organized.
March 26, 2010 7:29 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Thanks RA!
March 26, 2010 7:33 PM
Carrie said…
this is just another example of how TM promotes fixing yourself with more self. where is love in this? taking care of your space, yes. there is love in that. but there is ZERO love in OCD-ness, just more law, and just more self.
we had room checks when i was there. i was notorious for NOT rushing around to get my stuff together. i actually enjoyed taking my time to order my space and belongings. i didn’t rush, i just worked at a relaxed steady pace. at the end of the semester, three of my roomies confessed that they had judged me for “being lazy” about cleaning the room. yes, i cleaned it in a timely manner. yes, i finished it well before the deadline. yes, i was considerate of other people’s space and belongings. but i was judged as lazy b/c i did not work at a frenzied pace to get it done as quickly and efficiently as possible.
March 26, 2010 8:46 PM
Eric P. said…
I just watched it.
Holy schlemazel.
There’s a phrase that describes it perfectly. I’m too polite to use it in mixed company, but it ends in “retentive.”
Also, the man has an uncanny fixation on the word “fail.” Presumably if you leave a sack of flaming dog poop on your desk, that’s gonna be an Epic Fail?
Nothing proves mental acuity and spiritual keenness like clean blinds, as I’m pretty sure Jesus didn’t say.
Anon @ 12:13, ah well. You’re a good sport, anyway.
March 26, 2010 10:02 PM
Anonymous said…
i watched that video just now and almost got sick… no joke. i remember our room and my stuff failing sometimes… i was an intern in 03-04 and a GI in 04-05… it was insane. i just want to scream right now… i am SO frustrated…. idk how i made it through 2 years of that BS. sure, i understand keeping things clean, but good grief… this is abusurd.
March 26, 2010 10:13 PM
Noelle said…
they can buy a new couch for those boys with 2400 my dad spent for the five days that i went there.
March 26, 2010 10:30 PM
Anonymous said…
Honestly, I think having a standard for cleanliness is good when you are living among other people. My roommate and myself have “rules” about our apartment out of respect for the other person. However, I think what makes this different is that you start to hear the lessons and the rules and the Bible verses as all having the same importance. You start to think that in order to be 100% for the Lord, you have to follow all the rules and not question them.
I will say, I did appreciate some of the cleanliness rules when I was an intern because I had a roommate that had never been trained in how to be clean. To her credit she learned a lot and wanted to learn, just a lack of being taught growing up. Anyway it was nice to have some rules for everyone’s comfort int he room.
BUT looking in drawers is just wrong. And the standards MR. H set seemed to be more of his preferences and the way he likes things. Or out of a desire to copy the military. I don’ think it should be expected of everyone. And I know for me the guilt of not meeting the standard was mixed in with all the other standards I strove to meet.
March 26, 2010 10:47 PM
Moriah said…
Dear Mr. Hasz:
you, my friend, are the one who has failed.
March 27, 2010 1:17 AM
LisaMarie said…
In my years since being an intern, I’ve really struggled with the idea that a person with a more natural bent towards discipline (eg, Dave Hasz) makes a “better Christian” than a person who doesnt really have that kind of personality (eg, me. haha) Ultimately, I’ve come to identify that idea as nothing less than a destructive lie from Satan. Unfortunately, the HA seems to still be perpetuating it, knowingly or not.
March 27, 2010 2:22 AM
Anonymous said…
What kind of “recovery” is happening by posting this video?? It’s a video to clearly mark the standards and guidelines YOU are agreeing to abide by. Maybe it’s anal, but i wish we had something like this when i was there. My weird roomate was disgusting and she always made us get campused and pay consequences. She got away with it b/c there were no clear rules about this.
I’m sorry but agree or disagree..who cares. follow YOUR RECOCERY purpose.
March 27, 2010 5:50 AM
Anonymous said…
**RECOVERY
March 27, 2010 5:50 AM
Liz BR said…
Anonymous at 5:50: Sometimes you need to re-see something as an adult, something that makes you go, “Oh, my gosh, what I was doing WAS insane.” You see it with more perspective after the fact.
If an alumnus can watch this video and recognize its absurdity concerning something mundane, he or she can likely continue coming to terms with the absurdity of bigger things at the HA.
Plus, having other people confirm to you that you’re not crazy for questioning what you went through — even if it was as simple as these stupid room checks — can feel really, really good.
I first started “recovering” from my experience as a teenage missionary when I started questioning the little things, like a woman telling me my ring from Asia had a demon attached to it, and that’s why I was sad as a teenager. No, I was a sad teenager because the boy I liked didn’t like me back, but I’d been told not to care about boys anyway.
March 27, 2010 6:54 AM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Anon 5:50:
Unfortunately, I doubt that any current pro-TM intern is going to see how we’re “recovering” through these posts. I speak from experience; a few years (even months!) ago, I could look at every single one of these posts on this blog and go into defensive because they’re “speaking ill” of anything related to TM.
That’s just the way it is; you’re going to be sensitive to anything that portrays TM in a negative light, and not understand it. And that’s okay! It takes time, for the most part. 🙂
March 27, 2010 10:14 AM
Anonymous said…
haaaaaaaaaaaa……that must be one of the most hilarious things I have seen in a WHILE…one thing I’m very curious about…..what does HIS house look like and does anyone hold him “accountable” for being “clean and pristine?” LMAO!!!!
March 27, 2010 10:17 AM
Anonymous said…
after I let myself feel annoyed at him, I found this to be very funny. I actually feel some pity for him and anyone trapped in his little world in texas. But seriously, some of those quotes on there are HILARIOUS . . . including his use of the words nasty, beautiful and pristine.
I am guessing he didn’t count on some of us growing out of Teen Mania and his lectures coming back at him like this.
Poor little pot bellied Dave Hasz.
Its hard when your imaginary world of tightly made beds and perfectly dusted blinds comes crashing down, but it definitely makes our lives more entertaining.
March 27, 2010 1:12 PM
Joel Callaway said…
Honestly I was fine until he started going through the drawers. I understand why this was posted now. I’m not feeling angry at Hasz, but disappointed. I wish I was laughing, but in the end it just makes me sad.
I agree. The HA isn’t West Point. I realize that we read about spiritual warfare in the epistles. But taking the military symbolism and using it to justify a style of discipleship can get dicey.
Anyone ever read/listen to Pastor Greg Boyd? I’d recommend checking out a teaching he did titled, “The Cross and the Sword.” You can find it at http://www.whchurch.org/content/page_722.htm if you feel so inclined. (I don’t know what the policy is for web link here. All apologies if not allowed.)
March 27, 2010 1:59 PM
Joel Callaway said…
Did anybody watch Christiane Amanpour’s series God’s Warriors? I watched it back in 2007 when it aired on CNN. I thought it was fair in it’s depiction. Somebody posted it on You Tube and I’ll share the link at the end here. A portion of this that’s shown from 5:01 to 5:45 in the video still moves me to tears. It helps me with perspective.
Grace and peace to you all.
Joel
http://www.youtube.com/user/kellycarter07#p/a/u/0/np8abmgqWkY
March 27, 2010 2:26 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Joel – I love Greg Boyd – reading his take on power over vs. power under was a HUGE turning point in my Christian life.
March 27, 2010 2:49 PM
Christina Fields said…
Ding! Ding! Ding!
We have a winner!!
The whole first floor has qualified for additional training!!
WTF?!
March 27, 2010 4:01 PM
gc1998 said…
joel, that video made me want to vomit. (but yeah, jody *got* it. Jesus is what it’s all about…protesting homosexuality is not something Jesus would have ever done. it makes me so sad.)
March 27, 2010 9:04 PM
Anonymous said…
i still have a hard time watching that [the BC amanpour piece].
that was MY tour.
i lived that.
i was friends with those people, i was at those events, i walked those halls, i worked for that.
and i don’t know how i feel about any of it.
if anything rips the wounds wide open all over again…
it’s those videos.
March 27, 2010 10:08 PM
LisaMarie said…
Wait so Joel- do you mean you *like* what Jodi had to say or you disagree with it…?
March 27, 2010 10:12 PM
Elizabeth said…
Back during my year Aug. 96/97, which was the first year TM was in GV we had room inspections, but thankfully, NOTHING compared to this. At that time we only had the one dorm: Green Hall. Men on the first floor, women on the second floor of the gray sheet metal building — with the patios & living room & kitchens as common space for both genders. Each floor had 12 rooms, 3 per building corner that became our “quad”. Each room was filled with 6 room mates (I was blessed with the BEST and Most amazing room mates who I LOVE, am in relationship with today and prize. They were my lifeline after TM. We were the only ALL Aug. room which meant we had the time to really get to know and invest in each other lives and get past our hurts and brokenness) There was even a time that year when one of the cafeteria’s upstairs rooms had like 15 or so male Interns living in there. So I understand the need for cleanliness for hygiene and sanity. To my understanding there had been apartment inspections in Tulsa, but I don’t know to what level of thoroughness. As it was, my impression was that so long as things were tidy and in a proper place. (“A place for everything and everything in its place”)I was on the top (3rd) bunk and since tucking in the sheets was a really difficult matter I eventually just smoothed over my comforter without it having ever caused our room to fail inspection. So the rooms would usually pass. However, in speaking to my husband (also an alumnus from that year) he has different memories esp. as Hasz was his room inspector. A major difference from the video is that our room (quad) inspections included the bathrooms. After leadership decided to stop having the Maintenance crews clean the dorms & bathrooms each room was assigned a week to clean the bathrooms and part of that week’s room inspection was how well you cleaned the bathroom. If ANY items were left out, particularly in common areas, when leadership came through they were confiscated and put into Dave’s store. So if anyone was missing anything Dave’s store was one for the first place to look. And if any items went unclaimed by the end of the month Hasz would hold an auction. And sometimes while the auction process was fun Hasz often used the auctioning of personal items to make fun of/ridicule certain individuals and shame them before the entire assembled class. But back to the room inspections – I find it curious that they held room inspections our year when considering that most of the furnishings they provided for us were either broken/in disrepair and, or infested with chiggers and other pests that then infested us for months. They kept a standard for us all the while failing to provide functioning, clean, and sanitary conditions. Another difference and a great blessing was that we were permitted to personalize our space. We kept candles and a FEW knick-knacks, photographs, etc to decorate our small square of a dresser. So in a room of 6 others there wasn’t even space for our clean clothes let alone our dirty one’s so I took to folding my dirty laundry. A fact my roommates lovingly teased me about. I had always been a tidy and fastidious “housekeepter” but it was only after the Internship that it turned into a compulsion – OCD. If I saw something out of order I was compelled to attend to it immediately. If someone cleaned or folded something no to my satisfaction I took it upon myself to 1. educate them how to do it properly, and 2. redo the chore myself usually in front of them. (I so lacked in love and grace!!!!!) While I cannot completely attribute this behavior entirely to my time with TM – I did have the tendencies before TM, but being there in that environment of works and militaristism completely reinforced those tendencies and full gripped me after graduating.
March 28, 2010 3:09 AM
Mary Beth (Johnson) Tyson said…
I just ran into my run, jumped on the bed and threw my clothes around. I feel better now….
I understand needing to have a clean room when there are six people in there but my goodness! Military standards here! Yikes!
March 28, 2010 4:07 PM
… said…
No. Not really military standards…
Dave Hasz Standards and Power Trippin R.D. standards.
The military is MUCH better at keeping a room clean. And making sure their people keep their room clean. 😉
This is just dumb.
March 28, 2010 4:17 PM
Anonymous said…This post has been removed by a blog administrator.March 28, 2010 8:18 PM
Carrie said…
@ Anon 8:18
I don’t think that CNN made Christians look like whack jobs. I think they gave a fair, even understated, perspective of Teen Mania. And if TM comes off looking like a whack job….well, you saw the clean room standards video. Pretty self-incriminating, no?
March 28, 2010 9:26 PM
Anonymous said…This post has been removed by a blog administrator. March 28, 2010 9:49 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Clean room standards to CNN…interesting trajectory. 🙂
I think its fair to criticize TM leadership, and that may even sometimes require using loaded terms like “whackjob.” But, I think we should be careful when we start applying that label to interns. Most of us were just as zealous, eager, naive, passionate and to some extent, brainwashed as current interns. Let’s remember that they we were once young, impressionable and prone to big displays of emotion – we just didn’t make it to CNN (thank God!). If what they say or do makes you feel queasy – that is more of a reflection of what they’ve been taught than who they are. And let’s redirect the conversation to WHY they feel and act that way instead of judging them individually. Cool?
March 28, 2010 10:04 PM
h. said…
RA–
tremendous points. especially since there are a few of us around here that were at the HA those years…[and those, like myself–that were on those ministry teams and in the CNN videos].
we were definitely a product of our environment. and i know for a lot of us, our “love” for TM had started to wane well into that tour [i speak as a branded by God MT’er]–we were asking hard questions and getting ugly answers in return, and for a lot of us, the process was absolutely devestating. while many of us involved would probably say that we’re in the process of “recovering” from our time there, the CNN video shows us in all of our niave, youthful zeal–and unlike most of you, we have a visible, VERY public reminder of who we were and what we believed, as shown in amanpour’s segment.
please just show us some grace, okay? and trust that for a lot of us, it absolutely breaks our hearts and makes us feel a little queasy too.
March 28, 2010 10:15 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
h – believe me, I CRINGE to think of what I would say and how I would come across during the peak of my TM passion….thank God its not on tape anywhere….
March 28, 2010 10:19 PM
Shiloh said…
Huh. That’s funny. I JUST watched God Warriors for the first time (just the part about T.M.)
It didn’t seem that bad at all! I guess I don’t get really upset whenever I see the T.M. logo like I used to.
I’m actually surprised at how much they aired. I think it was probably a really awesome witness to the hungry and thirsty.
March 28, 2010 11:13 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Let me clarify that while I do think TM and the HA can definitely play on our emotions…I NEVER want to criticize someone for being too emotional about Jesus. There is nothing else which should seize our deepest and most intense emotions more…The disciples got uncomfortable with extravagant displays of emotion and Jesus put them in their place. This doesn’t mean we HAVE to be emotional – but just that its definitely not inappropriate in itself.
March 29, 2010 10:10 AM
Anonymous said…
I apologize for being critical of that intern.
March 29, 2010 6:46 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Thanks, Anon. That is a stand up thing to do. 🙂
March 29, 2010 6:46 PM
joel Callaway said…
LisaMarie, to clarify, I think what Jodi had to say was brilliant. It’s a beautiful and centering thing to hear in the midst of all the “cultural warfare.
Shiloh, I didn’t want to infer that I thought the God’s Warrior’s piece was good or bad… just truthful (fair). Though, I have to say that the BattleCry branding made me think of the red sash of the Junior Anti-Sex League from Orwell’s 1984.
RA, sorry if I derailed the levity around the clean room thing. It’s the ADD.
March 29, 2010 7:16 PM
Anonymous said…
ROFL This is ridiculous. I was a CA in 2003 and thought room inspections were over the top.
March 30, 2010 12:08 PM
Anonymous said…
Oh..and their dirty laundry wasn’t folded. I think that is a fail. And what is this “additional training”? Do they drag you through the bach forte?
March 30, 2010 12:16 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
“Additional training” is some kind of exercise, from what I hear.
Why do they call it “additional training” instead of what it really is: punishment.
Training would be something like…”this is how you fold clothes, this is how you take out the trash.” lol
March 31, 2010 1:12 AM
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