(2021 Update: The original link, hastories.com, has since broken.)
As a result of the recent news footage, Teen Mania made an announcement regarding the future of ESOAL. Here is an excerpt.
I have already set in motion the assembly of an independent committee of experts that will evaluate every aspect of this retreat. This committee will be in place by November 1, 2010 and the individuals serving will be made public (with their specific qualifications) on or before that date. They will have full access to all retreat planning, the schedule of training leading up to the event and during the retreat. They will review all safety and wellbeing parameters in place, for all planned activities. In the interest of making sure this committee and their findings are completed and implemented, Teen Mania will not conduct another E.S.O.A.L. retreat until the recommendations of the committee have been satisfied. These recommendations will be made available to the public through The Tyler Morning Telegraph.
They already promised this once. I’ll believe it when I see it.
49 comments:
“We do not haze at Teen Mania. In fact we don’t even want to be involved in anything that could be confused with hazing.”
LMAO
Then just get rid of ESOAL?
It’s not hard. I promise that people can deeply impact God without it.September 24, 2010 10:04 AM
Josh ex-intern 00-01 said…
Hmmm….I wonder who FINALLY is putting their foot down? Could this be the reason that Dave declined the interview, aside from not wanting to have his word manipulated (which he does well enough on his own)?
Obviously, this raises more red flags to me then ever before. It does NOT sound like it’s coming from Dave or Heath, but from someone higher then them. Oh, and I have a comment there that’s waiting moderation. Let’s see where this goes!September 24, 2010 10:06 AM
heartsfire said…
Frankly I think the best way to have an independent study is to allow a few of the people on this community on the study as well as a few people that are so PRO- HA as to be “drinking the koolaid after KNOWING what’s in it”. Also have some people that have had NO involvement what-so-ever. This would be the best “Independent” committee available. I don’t think this is how they will do it, but it would be the most fair.
I honestly think very little will happen and this was just posted to keep their money mak—er—NEW JANUARY students parents from pulling the plug on them coming.September 24, 2010 10:08 AM
Anonymous said…
To promise not to have another ESOAL the week following the one they JUST had…lame. This is weak. Whatever TM. Just knock it off! The lies, the abuse, all of it… just knock it off!September 24, 2010 10:16 AM
layne said…
Load. Of. Crap.September 24, 2010 10:25 AM
CarrieSaum said…
“I hope you stick to every guideline you have given yourself here, with quick integrity and an open heart. I also hope that you review, with legal counsel, the qualifications of hazing. Praying for you all, and that Love guides you above all else.”
This is the comment I left on HAStories. I hope they leave it up. 🙂September 24, 2010 10:32 AM
hitchcockhill said…
oh really? another committee? haha. This just makes me smile and laugh. The last committee was so effective and honest. (sarcasm)September 24, 2010 10:41 AM
Krista said…
I don’t even see how you can have an “independent” committee if it’s a committee chosen by people who have something at stake for proving one side or the other. Conflict of interest much? They should just say, “We’ve selected a committee to investigate this issue that will take our side of the issue, prove us right, and tell us what we want to hear. Then we’ll sweep everything under the rug, pretend this didn’t happen, and continue to abuse and manipulate impressionable teenagers who really just want to please God.” Bleh!September 24, 2010 10:45 AM
Shiloh said…
“I don’t even see how you can have an “independent” committee if it’s a committee chosen by people who have something at stake for proving one side or the other.”
OH MY GOSH YES!!!!
Yes!
Not that I think it’s just a cover up to make the public happy. The H.A. NEVER follows through with this stuff. But even if it is true, it’s just a total scam.September 24, 2010 11:16 AM
Shannon Kish said…
Well lucky for them there isn’t another ESOAL until September 2011 and by that time the Tyler community will have forgotten about ESOAL and this committee. So, TMM can get away with lying again and no one will remember.September 24, 2010 11:19 AM
Shiloh said…
Teen Mania will not be getting away with it.September 24, 2010 11:30 AM
Shannon Kish said…
Shiloh, I would love to believe that and you can call me a cynic, but I just can’t believe it.
History is a good predictor of the future. And unless they completely restructure and change TMM, I don’t think anything will change.September 24, 2010 11:41 AM
Eric P. said…
Dear TMM, if you’re really concerned about ESOAL, how come you didn’t change it when we brought you these same facts last year?
However, I was pleased to see that the latest KLTV report did have what you didn’t deliver last time, an independent evaluation by a clinical psychologist: “There’s no research, no proof that these kind of programs have any positive benefit… I wouldn’t let my child be in it and I would question the judgement of people who would.”
If you want to show you’re really serious this time, put that guy on your panel. Otherwise, this is another bad joke.September 24, 2010 11:48 AM
Eric P. said…
@Shannon– What we have now that we didn’t have then is public attention and the eye of the media. TMM is clearly squirming. Their secret’s out, and if they don’t change decisively, they’re going to become forever known as “that group that does that ESOAL thing.” Either way, I could be wrong but I think this is the beginning of the end. It will either change from the inside or the outside. If they do repent, great; if they don’t, well, consider how parents feel when their kid says “I’m thinking of joining Scientology!”September 24, 2010 12:01 PM
J said…
The lawyer KLTV interviewed said that the only reason ESOAL isn’t legally considered hazing under TX law is that it isn’t happening in an educational setting. He said that if these exact same things were being done at a university or high school they would fall under the hazing statutes and be prosecutable. The lawyer even said that doing the activities voluntarily doesn’t mean it’s not hazing.
So, legally TM may be off the hook. But ethically, no. They match the criteria for hazing in all ways except the one I stated. BUT, doesn’t Sterling University offer college credit for the Honor Academy? It’s on TM’s website here: http://www.honoracademy.com/index.cfm/pageID/2281/
While this FAQ page makes it clear that you don’t legally qualify as a student when you do Honor Academy, TM is pushing the line here. They may not legally be engaging in hazing, but on every moral and ethical level they sure do.September 24, 2010 12:03 PM
Shannon Kish said…
This may be a DUMB question but humor me–
The letter states-
“Teen Mania will not conduct another E.S.O.A.L. retreat until the recommendations of the committee have been satisfied.”
But also states-
“They will have full access to all retreat planning, the schedule of training leading up to the event and during the retreat”
How do you conduct an investigation during a retreat that isn’t supposed to happen until the investigation is complete?September 24, 2010 12:19 PM
Nick said…
There’s a decent chance that my indomitable optimism is betraying me yet again, but the nature and phrasing of this notice strikes me as different from previous statements. Including the specifics of date and place of publication don’t scream “vague handwaving.” We’ll see, but I agree with those that said someone else just got involved.
As for the difficulty of setting an independent committee, I’m not sure how I would even approach that if it were me. TM has to wrestle with conflict of interest, but its not as if having RA or any of us picking a committee would get rid of a conflict of interest. I seem to remember some logos on TM material indicating membership in some sort of accreditation agency that could be called on to do this, but maybe it was just a financial accountability organization.
Anyways, my point is–put yourself in their shoes: how do you put this together? Everyone you know to ask is, by definition, in your social network. (Or vehemently opposed to you)September 24, 2010 12:23 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
^This comment yes.
To add onto J’s thought, even if it passes legally, it still “could be confused with hazing”.
There you have it, TM. It looks like hazing, something you don’t want to be associated it.
So just cut ESOAL. I really don’t understand why that’s so hard to do, unless they’re holding onto it out of stubbornness or spite at this point.September 24, 2010 12:26 PM
MIP said…
What would it take to get this story on CNN, I mean… aren’t they obsessed with scandal in the ministry… with that much NATIONAL pressure SURELY they would have to do something… right?September 24, 2010 12:35 PM
layne said…
“Dear TMM, if you’re really concerned about ESOAL, how come you didn’t change it when we brought you these same facts last year?”
Exactly. They still don’t believe that they’ve done anything wrong. This is purely a PR move. And I don’t blame them for that. People may not be throwing eggs yet, but they are certainly eyeing the chicken coop.September 24, 2010 12:48 PM
Eric P. said…
Ooh, nice catch, Shannon! “We certainly don’t intend to do it again until everyone is done investigating the way we’re going do it next year!”
Think they’ll be interested at Friends of Irony, or is this more a case for Passive-Aggressive Notes?September 24, 2010 2:41 PM
Anonymous said…
I don’t see that their statements about not doing ESOAL until the recommendations have been met and the committee having access to the planning and implementation of the next ESOAL are contradictory.
The committee will see what the plans are for the next ESOAL, and TM will not do whatever plans the committee disagrees with.
Hence, TM will not do ESOAL until the recommendations are met, but they are still planning for ESOAL.September 24, 2010 2:49 PM
Julie said…
On the one hand, I’m kind of surprised TM didn’t just throw ESOAL out at this point, and then tell future generations of interns they could have done this great activity but the mean ol’recovering alums went and ruined it for everybody!September 24, 2010 3:27 PM
joyG said…
I’m horried that something which could be prosecutable is being offered as part of discipleship.September 24, 2010 3:49 PM
Anonymous said…
i think ESOAL will never be abolished, because its a free choice yea you dont have to be in itSeptember 24, 2010 6:11 PM
Carrie Saum said…
remember that someone ACTUALLY ALMOST DIED before they discontinued the crosswalk. (a male intern had a gun pulled on him in the middle of the night while crashing at some random stranger’s house.)
sadly, they replaced the crosswalk with ESOAL, where they have all of the power to keep near-death experiences out of the immediate public eye. i hope nobody has to die in order for ESOAL to be shut down.September 24, 2010 7:13 PM
Shiloh said…
@Julie.
I think it’s VERY FISHY why T.M. hasn’t done away with esoal. I honestly do not think esoal is something they believe firmly in doing because it will lead interns closer to the Lord.
There is just too much proof against it.September 24, 2010 7:41 PM
Shiloh said…
I only just got time to sit down and read the whole thing.
Letter’s bull. It’s attacking and poorly written.
I’m so done putting up with being ‘nice’ to T.M.
But to be level headed and none emotional. If it’s really true that Dave actually gets some experts by Nov. 1st and they are legit and Dave does not do anything until all changes suggested are met. My assumption is that esoal will not happen next year. Or ever again.September 24, 2010 8:09 PM
nakedwatchman said…
so ra, did your participate in esaol? if you did was it a postive experience?September 24, 2010 8:44 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
No, I did crosswalk 2 years in a row.September 24, 2010 8:45 PM
Micheal McComber said…
odd my comments on the hastories.com was deleted ……September 24, 2010 9:49 PM
Shannon Kish said…
And apparently, the letter from DH, Jack Hayford, and the board has been removed from the hastories.com website again.
Interesting. I may be missing it, but I haven’t found them yet.September 24, 2010 9:55 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
And there it is, people!!! Everything they do is all for show. Oh, the news is gone? We can take it back down now…we have most interns wrapped around our little finger.September 24, 2010 10:02 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Well, I have a lot of stuff saved for public viewing due to my mistrust of TM as a whole.
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-b_4tuYI3VjZjdjZWY4MzYtYTVhMS00YmQ5LTgwMWEtNTRlYWIxOTQ2NmVm&hl=en
The Esoal retreat letter is still on the website, but not the others.September 24, 2010 10:10 PM
Anonymous said…
Nunquam-
My firm belief is, the Leadership won’t do away with ESOAL because if they do; 1. They would be admitting guilt and now to the world possibly. 2. They’re far to stubborn any way.
How many dangerous situation did they have to get them selves in on “The peak” before they said you had to qualify specially for it etc. I remember stories of bitter wind, high snow, storms on the mountain etc….
They stand to loose some pride with this one…They might wanna die on this hill….September 24, 2010 10:24 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
You know, anon, that is a good point. There have been many dangerous situations – the Peak, Crosswalk, all the ESOAL-lite activities we did in the old days, the Bed Factory, World Awareness, etc….September 24, 2010 10:25 PM
Micheal McComber said…
Yes Cross walk. We got pulled over (yea we were walking) by the cops they thought we were the KKK since there was a few rallies that week. We were also in the wrong part of town. The cops explained everything to us, asked if we were runaways. After some grilling he left us and drove off. I do remember a team had a gun pulled on them. Teams sleeping outside in the middle of nowhere with no food/money/safety. So yea but they dont do that any longer. Why because too many people brought up it was not safe. So it could happenSeptember 24, 2010 10:48 PM
Anonymous said…
What?!?! The Cross Walk seems entirely safe. They just didn’t have enough faith. If you are shot in the face and have faith that it won’t kill you then it won’t. I think they should cut ESOAL and play Russian Roulette for an LTE next year. That would really stretch them and they would learn a lot from it. I can already hear the intern testimonies….
“Sure, I was scared. But I prayed and pulled that trigger and I’m alive. This LTE is amazing!!! I’ve learned so much about myself and my faith in God.”September 24, 2010 11:06 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
ROFL ROFL LMAO!!!!September 24, 2010 11:07 PM
Micheal McCOmber said…
ok odd. i just re-added my comment and now both comments are there. web glitchSeptember 24, 2010 11:37 PM
Shiloh said…
Oh my gosh. Anon. Thank you.
Just…
Thank you.September 24, 2010 11:38 PM
Anonymous said…
What may help this time around is that the news station KLTV has also promised to follow up on the story and TMs agreement to do this investigation.September 25, 2010 8:19 AM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
LOL RUSSIAN ROULETTE
YESSeptember 25, 2010 10:28 AM
JC said…
I’ve gone “public” now, posting links in various places… prepared for the backlash… but if one more person directs me to “HAStories.com” to say “See?? Everything’s ok. Look at the happy people… ‘Please, abuse us more, Commander Chief, sir!'” I’m going to scream.
Bringing people up to speed when they’re unwilling to dig around this site is impossible.September 25, 2010 1:33 PM
Shiloh said…
JC. Don’t forget that we need to check out Heath Stoner’s blog to get the REAL story of esoal.September 25, 2010 6:30 PM
nakedwatchman said…
wasn’t crosswalk even more dangerous than esoal? besides they did away with it finally after some interns nearly got shot…so why so skeptical about them doing away with esoal? once they see the damage it has caused, surely they would get rid of it right?September 26, 2010 9:29 AM
Shannon Kish said…
naked- because it took someone almost getting killed for them to realize it.September 26, 2010 2:15 PM
Mynda said…
I participated in the cross walk and the biggest difference was that we did not have a “grand master chief” standing over us and telling us that we were loosers cause we didnt win. The point was to be dependent on God for everything even something as basic as food. When we did it we were in Tulsa area and the majority of the people around there knew what we were doing and we were not threatened. There is a psycological difference between the two.September 27, 2010 8:38 AM
Anonymous said…
Those goons at TMM just updated their site: http://recoveringalumniresponse.com/September 28, 2010 12:29 PM