I’ve gone back and forth on whether or not I should share some of my experiences that I’ve had at the Honor Academy. But honestly, after reading a lot of the information that you have on your site about recovery and reading so many stories from previous interns, I’ve realized that I’m not alone. I always thought it was me, like I was some sort of rebel. I felt like I was the only one that noticed all of the bizarre things that took place on campus.
One of the stories that I want to share has to do with my CA, Emma, and my RD, Jenny. I was an intern during 2005. One night during our weekly core meeting, our CA decided to bring us to the women’s bathroom right outside of the auditorium. As we walked in you could smell a horrible stench. Our CA had dumped out all of the stall waste receptacles onto the floor. Dirty tampons and pads everywhere! She then gave us gloves and told us to pick them up and throw them into the garbage. This was to show us how dirty our sins are to the Lord. And this was approved by our RD, who made an appearance later on that night. I was one of the only people in my core that refused to participate. I will admit, I felt very awkward not participating since I was the ACA of my room. I didn’t know how to handle the situation. I was just 17 years old and I had two women, who I thought I could trust, telling me to pick up unsanitary things off of the floor. And unfortunately I was too timid to do anything about the situation. This story still makes me angry along with the other stories that I have but you’re blog has really helped me deal with a lot of my feelings. Thank you so much for taking your time to help alumni such as myself. It’s a relief to know that I’m not the only one!
33 comments:
That is disgusting, and should be illegal. There are so many diseases you can contract from doing that. Jeez, even the maintenance staff only has to touch the waste receptacles and not the actual pads and tampons. You had a good head on your shoulders at the Honor Academy… I probably would have gladly picked them up, and even if I thought it was wrong, I never would have had the courage to refuse to do something my CA told me to.
Just the idea of this makes my stomach turn. Just the thought that something so humiliating would be done. It’s not just your own blood you are handling and when you are on the floor WITH these things there is so much potential for disease and such to spread. It’s sick that there are stories of these “Core night lessons” all through every year that the HA has been in existence and so many of them are almost designed to do more grossing out than really teaching the bible. How sad how sick. The thing is THAT CA and RD likely did what they remember having done to them in a different way. 🙁
Oh. my. god.
….speechless.
I’m not at all surprised. Eliza these things happen ALL THE TIME at the H.A.
The saddest thing being that, in this case, it’s obvious that after being at Teen Mania for at least a year (probably more like a year and a half?) your C.A. and R.D. (who had been there at least 2 years.) did not know Jesus died for your sins and God does not look at you and see what a dirty person you are, but that you’re His child and He’s going to get you through all of this.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this but am VERY proud of you for refusing to participate! That’s impressive! While it sounds like you felt guilty, you actually did not cave to peer pressure and it shows you have a much stronger since of justice rather than being cowardly.
I’m glad you shared your story and just know… you are definitely NOT alone. Teen Mania is quite the hellish year for some. It definitely was for me. and it took me a while to get over it. But I hope I can encourage you that soon, it’ll be a distant memory and not nearly as traumatizing. You’ll look back on a lesson learned and pretty much forget the rest. 🙂
Eliza, I’m very sorry for what you experienced, especially that it was at the hands of people you trusted to lead you! I hope that someday when you are ready, you will write the rest of your story. It can help you gain perspective, just to write what happened and see it from a new perspective of distance and maturity and realize you would never do to someone else, a teenager, the things that you experienced. It can also be a very freeing experience to receive validation for your feelings from others who understand what you went through. You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. Thank you for sharing this story with us. I open you will continue to interact with this community and that you find healing and hope here!
Hazing laws make this illegal. SOMEONE NEEDS TO SUE!!
I would agree that this is incredibly disgusting and unsanitary. What the hell does that have to do with Jesus or anything remotely close to Jesus?
Stop. the. madness. I am completely shocked. I thought I heard it all… Eliza, I am sorry that you had to go through that. I am so glad you refused to do it! Way to stand up for yourself!
That is extremely humiliating and degrading. What a horrible display of abuse of power and misuse of a teaching moment. I am so sorry this happened to you!
This is so disgusting. She only gave you gloves? What. a. dumbass.
Doesn’t she realize that if you are going to be forced to handle some one else’s blood, you should really be in full PPE (personal protective equipment)? Not to be too graphic, but it could have splattered in an open would near your arms, in your eyes, or mouth. Heaven forbid you actually contract something that another intern may have had. this is so neglectful on so many different levels.
The purpose was to remind you of how disgusting you are to God? Do interns (who will hear) really need this lesson pounded into them in such an inappropriate way? By ones, perhaps, so prideful?
Wow. Again, back in 98, the craziest core meetings I remember… wait… I don’t remember any core meetings.
Leviticus 15, for those interested in following the Bible literally, says specifically that this is an “unclean” activity, not kosher (pun slightly intended) for God’s people. In other worse, there’s way more biblical support for forbidding this then there is against TV, secular music, smoking, dating….
Of course, one could make the argument that since we’re in Christ, we’re not under the OT ceremonial laws. Great, but then it follows that since we’re in Christ, we’re no longer “unclean” before God, so the exercise has even less value than nothing!
Kudos to you, Eliza, for having the courage to say no to this pathetic excuse for sophistic supercilious sanctimony.
“The purpose was to remind you of how disgusting you are to God?”
catsaved – That’s what I was thinking. Not only is it disgusting, unsanitary and humilating, but it’s also warped teaching.
This is a shame. Unfortunately, it doesn’t surprise me. When I was there as a staff member- this was one of my biggest gripes- crazy CA and RDs who were on power trips. I wanted to eliminate the CA program all together- it does more harm than good in my opinion. Obviously, I did not win that battle.
I’m so sorry you encountered this Eliza, but you have my admiration and respect for refusing to participate in such a ridiculous exercise.
Isaiah 64:6
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
This is likely the verse that the CA was referring to. “Filthy rags” here translates in Hebrew as “dirty menstrual cloth.” Our acts of righteousness gain us zero salvation. Our righteousness apart from the work of the cross is nasty and filthy.
Im not saying that I completely agree with this core event. I would have refused to participate as well, but it is important to acknowledge the legitimate biblical message that the well intentioned CA was getting at. You know…instead of mindlessly bashing these children of God for trying to teach truth. Even if their methods were debatably questionable…
No doubt that is the exact verse this exercise was based on. That doesn’t make it right! Especially considering this is Old Testament…I never see Jesus treating the sinners he is around like used tampons.
By using that kind of theology, we could do all kinds of crazy things from the Old Testament: sacrifice animals, stone the rebellious or adulterous, refuse to eat pigs and shrimp.
Just because you can find a verse in the Bible to back up your position, hardly means its tenable or “Christian”. Does it agree with the whole of Scripture and there is one question to measure all spiritual practicis and discipleship techniques against: DID JESUS DO IT?
Anon,
I get the verse and it is a beautiful verse. The message behind it is awesome.
However, I don’t need to play with unsanitary and disgusting feminine garbage to see the beauty in that verse.
I think the heart of the CA that did this was probably in the right place and I think she was trying to illustrate this beautiful verse…. but I think she failed to do so in an effective way.
I think there are other creative, sanitary, and just as powerful ways to get the point of this verse across.
I think more than this, though, this story illustrates just how dangerous it is to have unmonitored CAs teaching impressionable young adults. I can recall some similar, yet no where near as disgusting, teaching moments in my cores that had some not so good effects.
The leaders at the HA who have the most influence are the GIs (who are in their early 20s usually) and the RDs (also in their early to mid 20s). While I am not opposed to young adults being leaders, I think there should be close monitoring (especially in the case of the HA) due to the inexperience and immaturity that is prevalent and most definitely there. Young adults tend not to think of the overall and overarching picture. Developmentally, they are still in their “blinders on” stage and they still have a sense of “nothing bad will ever happen to me” belief system. This alone, makes it imperative to have older, more experienced leaders leading them closely.
My Alma Mater required that all of our RAs discuss and get approved any dorm activities that they planned for their dorms for this very reason. If the RA wanted to have a bible study and worship night, the RA had to get pre-approval and we had to have a faculty/staff member there to chaperone. (This was true of any campus organization as well).
I don’t think this shows that young adults do crazy power tripping things. I think it shows that the H.A. doesn’t teach the gospel. If Dave shoved it down those kids throats that Jesus died FOR our sins, that we are now new creations in Christ and free from bondage… This would not have happened. if the leadership preached the word, the interns would be able to discern the word when a C.A. went off and then that C.A. would be punished for the sake of their soul.
Sadly this is not what happens. Dave encourages this. And that is the true injustice. That C.A. may have gone on to regret that action very deeply and repent. perhaps she’s still stuck in that legalistic bondage. But the real wolf is Dave.
And that verse in Isaiah is taken out of context the way it’s being mentioned here. It’s talking about the Israelites and how they completely turned away from God and would not heed to Him, and also this is Isaiah speaking, NOT GOD. Later in Isaiah 65 God says He will honor those who stand with Him and not turn them away.
I believe Christians who are doing everything they can to love God would, even by this O.T. theology be fine in God’s sight. I would argue God is not speaking of a person who sins one time but continually builds false idols and refuses to recognize that He is their God.
It’s not “Old Testament theology.” It is a true message also in the New Testament that our righteous striving is about as good as a dirty tampon. And this verse has great language to illustrate this! But youre right Shannon, you dont need to play with dirty tampons to understand the message. This is where I would agree that CA’s could use more monitoring. I thought the same thing when I was at the HA. However, theres no reason to attack these people and call them unchristian. They were not treating anyone like used tampons. They were not being unloving. They simply used a method that was a bit extreme. But even so it reminds me of how Mary washed Jesus’ nasty stinkified post-journey feet with her HAIR. Thats pretty nasty too and Jesus thought it was beautiful.
It is O.T. theology. To say that God looks at a Christian and sees dirty rags. He doesn’t. your sin is forgiven. You are forgiven. When you sin, you are ALREADY forgiven. Jesus died for the sins of the WORLD. Everyone’s sins are paid for. It’s whether you choose to except that payment that determines where you end up on the judgement day.
Your sins aren’t looked at as ‘dirty rags’ because you are SAVED. You have the Holy Spirit living inside of you and that alone is enough to lead you into all truth and righteousness. This is why we do not have a license to sin, because we are NEW creations. Not the old.
this is a fear based teaching that leaves you feeling like you are a terrible person and meditating on all the bad things you shouldn’t do because if you think it’s gross, God must REALLY think it’s gross.
I wont get into this anymore, cause this place isn’t the place to do it. And I know that. But it’s worth the fight, if we’re gonna get into that topic… to say that, this is a VERY unbiblical teaching in the first place.
I think you get the point Shiloh but you dont know it haha. If you attended the Honor Academy you know that there are PLENTY of legalistic “works mentality” people to be found. By the way its not the sins that are filthy rags…its the righteous acts. The point is that you cant work your way to heaven. Jesus is the only way to be righteous. Your own striving toward salvation/God’s approval is as good as a used tampon. Thats the point. I think the HA is a great place to preach that message.
That’s just it, though– “What God has cleansed, you must not call unclean.” (Acts 10:15). Since we’ve already been made clean in Christ, why spend the time driving home the message that before that, we were dirty? We knew that; that’s why we came to Christ and got cleaned.
Yes, the verse is talking about righteous acts, but Eliza says, “This was to show us how dirty our sins are to the Lord.” (Notice the present tense “are” as well, there. HA totally sucks at Bible reading comprehension.) It seems to me that the practical takeaway from that exercise is not “Jesus makes you clean from sin” but “You’re gross and disgusting, and aren’t you ashamed of yourself for all the bad things you did?” In other words, Not The Gospel.
The message isn’t that we are dirty. Like you say, Eric, the verse is talking about righteous acts. I agree with you that if “how dirty our sins are to the Lord” is the message being given, then that is unbiblical. But we all seem to agree that the CA was referring to Isaiah 64 and was therefore probably not meaning to convey “how dirty our sins are to the Lord.” Instead, it makes more sense that Eliza perceived the wrong message; one that makes no biblical sense. I think if Eliza realizes what her CA was really probably getting at, it could be refreshing to know that that aspect was just a misunderstanding. Or, we could all keep trying really hard to put things out of context to make others look unbiblical. Now, that wouldn’t help anybody.
@ Anon,
How did Jesus handle the woman who had the “issue of blood”? Did he tell her how unclean she was and make her feel shame for something that she could not control? Did he publicly humiliate her? Nope. And I don’t think He ever saw her as dirty in the first place. We are not dirty to God. He sees us as innocent and blameless…not dirty, disgusting, and repulsive. THAT is how we are taught to see ourselves. That mindset is so pervasive and damaging in the christian faith, it makes me want to scream. And, let’s just say that your mom did this…emptied out the trash can on the floor with a week’s worth of tampons and pads and then made her teenage kids pick it up while telling them that this is how disgusting and repulsive they are to their father. Can you even imagine that? That would be considered extreme mental/emotional abuse.
@Eliza,
W.T.F. ?!?!?!?! I’m stunned. And thankful that you had enough sense not to take that on internally, and sad that you didn’t feel as though you could refuse to do this abusive exercise and survive or be okay. I’m glad you spoke here. What a horrendous thing to do. I’ve heard hundreds of stories over the years, but I don’t think I’ve ever been so horrified as I am right now.
@Anon– I think you give TM too much credit for their Bible-teaching skills (for instance, they’re responsible for this). The predominant message I see in reviewing TM’s material is the doctrine that doing good works = sanctification, and Eliza’s impression is consistent with that. We don’t have to put it out of context to see that, whatever the intentions might have been, the fruit was extremely unbiblical.
Even if we gave them the full benefit of the doubt here, the fact that Eliza perceived the message as the opposite of what the Bible actually says shows that they’re doing at best a very poor job of teaching it. Good teachers know how to prevent misunderstandings. There have to be thousands of ways to illustrate the doctrine “good works != standing with God” that don’t completely overpower the meaning of the text. The kindest thing I can think to say about this is that it’s disgusting, insulting, unsanitary, and unnecessary.
I was there in 2005, our CA had us do something similar, but it was scrubbing the men’s room. Our CA sent us a passage of scripture to have memorized by the time core met (about 3 hours before hand) If we didn’t have it memorized then we had to clean the bathrooms as well…i was two words off…grrrr
MIP-again using another intern’s job placement as a punishment! I’m sorry your CA used my job placement to punish you for not memorizing your verse. I unfortunately was punished for just being myself apparently and had to clean bathrooms the entire year haha! CA’s on a power trip=lame!
@Anon – You’re right. In OUR striving our glory and our honor and our (fill in the blank here) is like filthy rags. But now that we’re in Christ he stands on our behalf.
Eliza I’m so sorry that you had to experience this sort of shame. The Holy Spirit does not condemn, the Holy Spirit convicts. There is no reason why you should have to be shamed to be shown the depravity of your sin. That’s not man’s job.
I was a leader at TM, and actually had a “lesson” on that same passage, but it was about legalism verses grace. I wrote on a CLEAN pad with a red marker “My righteous acts” and passed it around the group of girls. The point was, that anything we are striving to do (usually what TM pressured us to do) was completely disgusting to God, only what Jesus did matters. It is disgusting someone would go that far, but it doesn’t surprise me in an environment where the more “extreme” a leader is, the more “trendy.” Gross.
Anonymous @ 3:10-
To me that seems like it would be a more appropriate use of the analogy, that our righteousness is as filthy rags so we NEED God’s grace. Not at all like the message of Eliza’s CA which seemed to say-you ARE filthy rags.
Wow, I just happened to stumble upon this website today. I was a ’02-’03 Intern and completed the entire year. I really wish this website was around when I had left the HA. I’m really glad to see that someone created a place where former interns can discuss their experiences and struggles. For those of you who have more recently left the HA – hang in there, it gets better. I left the internship with such a warped view of God and what it meant to be a Christian. For a while I actually thought there was something that I had to do to be deserving of God’s love and grace – which is just so false. There is nothing we can do to be deserving of God’s love, that’s why Christ died for us. Reading the stories shared on this site, I almost had forgotten about many of the odd and outright ludicrous things the HA would teach us or make us do. Luckily for me, I dodged a huge bullet by opting out of the ESOAL retreat – which certainly raised a few eyebrows from my fellow interns. It was like I was somehow less committed to my faith because I didn’t want to participate in this outrageous and horrendously ugly retreat. For me the HA is really missing the main point of Christianity and focusing way too much on a legalistic set of rules. For me, Christianity is fully and truly about LOVE. In real love there is no shame, no condemnation, no fear. I feel as though the HA relied on shame, fear and condemnation to keep the interns in line with what they wanted.
Thank you RA for creating this blog. This is a great opportunity for all those affected by TM to come together and share their experiences without fear.
In response to Eliza’s story, thank you for sharing. This story is ablsolutely disgusting, and is shameful not only for the HA but for Christianity as a whole. Before becoming a CA I prayed to God that I would be effective, without seeming holier-than-thou. At times I don’t think my RA could stand me for this, but I thank God I never did anything this degrading (at times i felt pressured by her to do things like this). Thank you RA for this website, and for the honesty of other alumni.