In the past few days, we’ve seen some heinous treatment of interns including facilitators and staff members that terrorized a girl with a cockroach, watched idly as a guy has a panic attack, and Heath Stoner taunts interns as he literally endangers their lives.
In the first few seconds of this short clip, you’ll see yet another example of how the interns are routinely screamed at. Personally, this gives me the creeps.
Teen Mania’s defense for the continued verbal assault and harassment is that they are doing this for the intern’s good. They do NOT enjoy it. In fact, they will often tell you that its harder to be a facilitator than to be a participant. Supposedly, their heart is breaking inside as they have to yell at these interns and push them harder.
To find out whether or not that is true, we would need to see how the facilitators act when they are NOT around interns. When they gather together to plan their next move, do their words indicate love and respect for the interns?
In this clip, David Hasz is instructing a group of facilitators about the next activity. Prior to giving his instructions to the facilitators, he yells across the field to the interns, belittling their intelligence. At this, nearly all the facilitators giggle with glee – even though they are not directly facilitating the interns. While huddled together away from the interns, one facilitator even uses the word “retard.” As Dave describes the next sadistic activity, he calls it “fun.”
As you watch their reactions, ask yourself if this looks like a group of people who find it painful to harass and terrorize the interns? Or is this a group of people that ENJOYS bringing pain and heartbreak to the interns?
If you are a parent, are these the type of people you want to entrust your child to?
UPDATE: It is important to note that not every single facilitator is reflected by the above comments. Some are more or less forced to facilitate. This post refers primarily to the staff members and graduate interns that enjoy the power trip that ESOAL brings. No doubt that some graduate interns do not enjoy facilitating and are just as much a victim of the situation as the undergraduates.
33 comments:
RA,
While I agree with you on most things regarding ESOAL, this one I have to part company with you on. Most facilitators are Graduate Interns given the following options: Facilitate or Participate. Given those two options I am pretty sure the vast majority of us would Facilitate instead of going through ESOAL again. While there are some people who take joy in facilitating I don’t think the majority really do in their heart but feel kinda backed into a corner and nervously laughing along with the leaders. If you were to take a survey of those who have been GIs who have had to facilitate I doubt most of them would say it was “fun” or happy for them to facilitate but if confronted with the video by someone who was put through it by them would probably later apologize for the things they said. Much like the Stanford Prison Experiment most of these facilitators are just doing what they were told to do because they fear what comes after.
Heartsfire, so because these GIs are backed into a corner to facilitate it is somehow OK to permit them to abuse these interns and ESOAL participants? I don’t follow your logic. The TM leadership DOES enjoy abusing these interns and just because the GIs participate doesn’t mean that its ok. Weren’t the SS morally responsible for the way that they treated the Jews even though Hitler was the one that made them do it? This IS NOT ok.
mouse
I kind of agree with heartsfire. These GI’s have been getting brainwashed for going on two years and they really, truly believe what they’ve been told: that ESOAL is a life-changing event that will build character, bring interns closer to God, etc. They probably think that God is using them in that role. And while I never had any desire to facilitate myself (THANK GOD), I know other GI’s who felt they were supposed to. And I know that many of them cried during ESOAL (but not in front of the interns, because you aren’t supposed to show emotion). DON’T GET ME WRONG; I think ESOAL is bad and I think there is something wrong with much of the TM leadership, but I just couldn’t go so far as to say that the GI facilitators are sadistic or that they enjoyed putting their friends through hell. I think it would be more accurate to say that they are victims, too.
And mouse, while I get what you’re saying, and while I agree to an extent (that just because they feel backed into a corner doesn’t mean they don’t still bear responsibility), I think it’s completely unfair, maybe even offensive, to compare ESOAL facilitators to Hitler’s army. I don’t think they carry even close to the same moral implications. GIs yelled at interns a little, all the while knowing it was going to end in a day or two, and that if they do there jobs well hopefully no one will have even been hurt (not that that is what actually plays out, mind you). The Nazi’s committed genocide. They brutalized entire countries, used people (espcially Jews) for forced labor while slowly starving them to death. When their usefulness ran out, they were gassed.
Not the same thing.
But again, *please* understand: I still recognize that ESOAL is dangerous physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and it has done who knows how much damage to interns. I don’t want to minimize the suffering that has occurred. I’ve read the stories, and they are heart-breaking. ESOAL needs to be stopped.
Let me amend a prior statement: GIs yelled at the interns A LOT. I believe that is more accurate than how I stated it before. 🙂
Also I want to say that this post could potentially alienate some of your fellow recovering alumni community here that may have facilitated ESOAL because they thought at the time that God wanted them to, and who maybe didn’t feel about it the way you’re describing at all.
The analogy to the Stanford Prison Experiment is right on– chillingly so, in fact. I’d suggest reading up on it for anyone who hasn’t; it gives a very good perspective on the psychology of what happens at ESOAL.
Note that as Heartsfire says, “Most facilitators are Graduate Interns given the following options: Facilitate or Participate.” Not, “Facilitate, Participate, or Say ‘I’m not going to do that because I believe bullying is morally wrong.'” (And what happened to “ESOAL is totally optional”? Oh, right.)
By being forced into one of these roles, interns are conditioned to accept abusive behavior as normative. As the Stanford experiment shows, it’s (frighteningly) the normal human response to make yourself fit into the role that your leadership sets out for you, even when abuse is the consequence.
What this proves is not (necessarily) that the GI Facilitators are evil sadistic people, but that they were manipulated into evil sadistic behavior personally by Mr. David Hasz, who apparently does enjoy it quite a bit and thinks it’s a good thing. Notice the utter absence of heartbreak in his attitude. That right there is reason enough to make sure no other child ever goes to Honor Academy.
@Mouse,
I don’t think it’s ok for ESOAL to happen almost anyone here who has read ANYTHING I have said knows this. I don’t think the abuse heaped on interns through the GI’s is ok. I however don’t think we should blame the GI’s who themselves are sucked in and stuck in a corner. If you have ever read the research on things like this from the stanford Experiment it’s NOT because these people wanted to do this but because the felt they had to for some reason because of the pressure put on them from above meaning they are being put through a sort of abuse as well. I don’t think we could say it’s the GI’s fault for being forced down this path anymore than we could say it’s the intern’s fault for not opting out by the specific date. I think if you asked any of the people who have been GI’s (I wasn’t) they would say that the pressure was to act ok with it. I don’t feel that saying that blame rests with them in this situation is ok. I don’t blame squarely rests on those who have LEFT the HA for a time in their lives and Know better. I would state that I don’t think that ANYONE who has never had an adult life outside of Teen Mania can really be held responsible for the things that they are doing because they are just acting in the paradigm that the leadership is giving them without thought.
@Eric thanks for the link I think it’s important that EVERYONE here have a full understanding of this experiment SERIOUSLY you will see a great deal of TM life in it!
I think you guys are right and I should not have lumped all facilitators in one group. You are absolutely right that the majority of graduate interns that facilitate are victims as well and some perhaps feel they have no other option.
My mistake.
That said, would you agree that there are some facilitators that do seem to enjoy harrassing interns? We’ve ALL witnessed graduate interns and staff members on a power trip – and ESOAL exacerbates that 100 fold.
@RA
I don’t deny they are out there I’m just saying that it’s probably a larger number of GIs that are in the group that are stuck or feel stuck.
heartsfire – Perhaps. But let’s also remember that a lot of staff members and 3rd year GIs also facilitate.
I never facilitated ESOAL because I know that I’m sadistic and would have enjoyed yelling at interns too much. But I was a Staff Associate so I had a choice. I thought that GI’s were no longer allowed to facilitate…?
@RA I point out my theory on this. Much like the prison experiment if you stay IN the bubble you are likely to STILL be operating as if you had no real choice. 3rd year GI’s and Staff that have never left the HA are about as Mentally able to say no as a 2nd year GI maybe even less so. If we are going to stand in the idea that there are many cult like behaviors then we have to operate under the assumptions that only those that have LEFT the HA for a few years and come back to facilitate (be employees) or those that never were Interns but still do this can really be viewed in a light where their actions should be under the guise of KNOWING BETTER! Yes I extend clemency to those who have never left the HA because to be under someone’s control for a long time only makes you more prone to follow their suggestion.
Say a person is staff and has been at the HA for 5 – 6 years. Do you think if their parent is against ESOAL or very uncomfortable with it that they will stop doing it? The tested hypothesis states that staff like this will not listen to even the wisdom of their parents over that of the HA leadership when it comes to thinking it’s ok. Do you think a normal 25 year old who had enough time with their parent would have a similar view?
@Layne According to a person I know that’s a GI all of the CAs this year were given a choice Facilitate or Participate in EZ company with Hasz
heartsfire – I don’t think the issue for this post is whether or not the GIs “know better” – its that they are conditioned to harass interns, and in some/many cases, they enjoy it. For this post, that is the bottom line. The net effect on the interns being harassed is the same regardless of whether or not they “know better.”
I do agree with what you are saying that they are victims as well, but that is not the focus of this particular post.
I suppose I stem from the thought that if he can tell Interns that they have to SMILE during ESOAL and that if they aren’t “choosing joy” no matter the abuse flung at them, whats to say that he isn’t and hasn’t been telling the Facilitators that they have to enjoy it or look like they are enjoying every second even if their stomach is flopping inside. Since we don’t know which ones/how many are actually hating every second of heaping hurt and abuse on their friends I am not sure we can call them villains. For me the villains are the leadership that allow this to continue and I wouldn’t want anyone (SPECIFICALLY anyone who may have been put up to being a facilitator as a GI or some such) to feel we are saying they are horrible when it wasn’t them it was the situation they were put IN that was horrible!
heartsfire – I see your point and I’m inclined to agree with you….except that not everyone fits into that paradigm. I wish what you were saying was true for every single facilitator…but I know of staff members who deliberately IGNORE severe injuries during ESOAL. I’ve seen the sadism in some facilitator’s faces as they verbally harass interns….like everything else, this isn’t a black and white issue and I appreciate you advocating for those that are victims.
Like you, I ultimately hold Dave Hasz and Ron Luce responsible for this fiasco.
I don’t have a lot of time to elaborate, but uh yeah. Weighing in as a GI that enjoyed facilitation. <:/
Though I didn’t facilitate ESOAL. I facilitated World Awareness, and I loved the power trip. Not one of my prouder moments lol
My lesson from doing ESOAL:
I hated it and didn’t see why I was there. If I wanted boot camp, I would have joined the army. After 24 hours, I wanted to give up, but I didn’t want to be a loser. (And I really wanted to be one of the cool kids who got the t-shirt for finishing! And of course have the bragging rights, of being one of the “tough” ones)
After I rolled the hill I was done. I stopped to ask God what I should do. He said,
“Go rest.”
So thankful I listened to Him and not my own pride, or the facilitators guilt trips. 🙂
I’m with Nunquam-
As a G.I. that went sadistic facilitating World Awareness (N.H. may not have gone sadistic… I did. I have so much regret from that weekend.) Facilitating makes you go crazy. I don’t understand how anyone can love God and the interns while facilitating.
There may be a few (VERY FEW) lessons you [might] learn but I don’t see love in ANY of this and NOTHING justifys it. Am I right? Is there even one thing here that gives glory to God? I don’t see one!
ESOAL’S JUNK. Throw it away.
Did anyone catch Dave’s comment about public school kids?
Yikes. He pours out judgement in everything he does.
Just wanted to remind everyone about the “real” esoal updates…
RA I’m trying not to be rude, but you never did go through ESOAL you have only heard stories. So, inconclusion you can not speak on what you have not done.
Anonymous – That’s pretty silly. Its called research and reporting.
PS – I never went to a concentration camp either, but I’ve heard they are pretty bad.
The story gets spread around after awhile and also I know CCM prob enhanced the drama from the videos just saying.
I did go through ESOAL, and I can say it really was as bad as she’s describing it. Have you read any of the stories here? Former interns, in their own words, describing their own ESOAL experiences. Not just RA’s conjecture.
I have been through esoal 4 times and I can testify that have of the stuff people put on here are LIES.
One anonymous comment against mounds of testimony? lmao.
Congrats Anon, I have been through it once, which was enough for me to know that these Videos are showing the TRUTH about ESOAL.
Anon @ 10:45AM – Um, CCM didn’t ‘enhance the drama’; what you see is what you get. Have you seen any of the ESOAL videos? In what way are they enhanced?
I have a friend that did teen mania and she said it was one of the biggest challenges of her life. She told us they did a lot of stuff you’d go through in boot camp for the army, but she wouldn’t have changed it. It prepared her in many deep ways for her walk and the missions field. Serving the lord is not easy. we may not understand somethings in life, but there’s never a trail or hardship that can touch your life without it passing through gods hands first. Keep fighting the good fight if your joining teen mania, and remember Romans 8:28. The lord is faithful to complete the work he’s started in you.
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