ESOAL: Heath Stoner Endangers Interns

Oh my! There are not words. Even if it were completely voluntary putting interns in a situation where once inside there is no way to change your mind and Ring out without finishing is just SICK!

First of all, disgusted with this. Pouring whatever they are pouring on top of their heads has the possibility of getting into their lungs and causing some health problems. Just stupidity. ESOAL is a power trip for the facilitators. I know b/c I used to be on staff there. I refused to facilitate ESOAL when I was there- even though I worked for HA.

But my husband was watching this and blurted out, “That’s an OSHA violation.” OSHA has confined space regulations. The reason it’s a violation is b/c if someone collapsed in there- it would be almost impossible to get them out quickly.

OSHA violation is an angle to look at here in regards to ESOAL. When I think about it OSHA violations are numerous in ESOAL.

I’m not a small dude, so me TRYING to fit through there would be IMPOSSIBLE!!! Does that make me a “wimp” Heath???

Oh, and a side note, ironic how they used the tune by Third Day called “Good Life” for a video on torture!!!!

This sort of thing is why I could never support Teen Mania under its current leadership, even if they withdrew ESOAL and issued a major apology. The current leadership thinks it was okay to do this. I cannot think of anyone I could trust less than a person who thinks this sort of stuff is okay.

So many things are running through my head right now. This is so sickening. I can’t imagine getting stuck in that tunnel.

If ringing the bell is not attached to any type of guilt or shame, why does Heath repeatedly say, “want to ring? want to use the wimp out card?”

Can you imagine if that tunnel would have collasped on one of those interns? What would they have done to get them out? I’m just assuming it has water in it at certain points, which is so dangerous.

What happened to the GREAT speech RL gaves all of us leaders during our missions trips about “SAFETY FIRST.” “A great leader always thinks about SAFETY FIRST!”

They also said we were incharge of other peoples’ “Babies” and that we were to think of “safety first.” I guess, this “GREAT LEADER” speech doesn’t count when you are leading the “HONOR” Academy.

Just another example of “double speak.”

The show they put on for missions training and what goes on at the HA are totally contradictory. Of course there are plenty of stories of abuse from these mission trips. But, for the most part, missions trips include leaders from the outside that are parents, youth pastors, etc. That and ATF are their public faces. These videos depict what they are really made of when they think noone is watching. So please, share this with everyone you know. Get people’s eyes on this. Get people watching!

Enlightenment- good point! I have a friend who’s gonna be a TL this year. I showed her this week’s videos and I don’t think she would believe at all it was from the same place if it wasn’t for the fact that she’s been on campus and knows what the place looks like.

yes i remember the “Well” very well.
IN the hit list night (staff members were hunting interns with paintball guns) One of the task was to climb down. I was paralyzed with fear. I could not do it. I was forced down there. Then when i got down there. They threw flour down at us and then closed the well off. I was freaking out.
I could not breath because of the flour dust. It was dark, I did not know what was going on. I was scared. When they opened the lid on top of the well, i climbed out. The staff members just laugh at me. I felt so little. Yea that night sucked

OH MY GOD! What the hell, just what the hell are they thinking!!??

All I can think is these people neen to put in jail – it’s the only way they will stop. This is horrendous.

MM IF I known they did this to you I would have ripped their faces off. I am outraged.

This is:

– Physical Abuse
– Emotional Abuse
– Spiritual Abuse
– Reckless Endangerment
– Bullying
– Sadism
– Dehumanization
– Brainwashing
– Mind Control
– Probably a violation of several laws. (Any lawyers care to weigh in?)

After watching this, nobody can reasonably say that Honor Academy is not abusive, straight up to the top of the leadership.

Oh yeah, and

– Torture
– Copyright infringement

I can’t even watch it. I may have a panic attack here in my apartment. I don’t understand why people honestly on the pro-Teen Mania side don’t see why this is wrong? Why? Are they that brainwashed? I don’t get it. Why on earth do people think this is ok to do to other people in the name of spiritual development? I guess maybe it really is in the same camp as believing that taking airplanes and using them as weapons glorifies Allah.

from the TM website, here is their mission statement.
To provoke a young generation to passionately pursue Jesus Christ and to take his life-giving message to the ends of the Earth

How does this do that??

@Anon — Maybe we can also get them for deceptive advertising!

legal action. I will contribute to a fund for legal action.

I agree Moriah – Surely with all the people that read this blog there are lawyers/people who know lawyers who would be willing to take this on. I am seriously concerned about the health and safety of current and future interns. It’s great to raise awareness about this, but I think we also have a responsibility to take some action on what we all believe are horrible human rights violations.

I nearly had a panic attack watching the video. That is HORRIBLE!

Absolutely Krista.
I don’t have the legal education to know what the steps are to taking action, but I would gladly give money to try and stop this sadistic and foolish behavior.

I couldn’t watch the whole thing…. So disturbing.

Near the end of the clip, Heath Stoner says, “we are here to facilitate your pain …” Really? I’d like to have the opportunity to facilitate your pain right now. Please, HA – show us the scripture where we are encouraged to “facilitate each other’s pain.”

His new nickname should be Major Napoleonic Asshole, sir …

This is abuse….Where are the lawsuits?

“Anonymous said…
This is abuse….Where are the lawsuits?”

I’ve seen this kind of comment before “anonymous.” If your intention is to mock & intimidate abuse victims that may need this safe place to help them process their TM experience I’m really, really certain that what you intend to do won’t fly here! If you have intended otherwise you are certainly free to say so.

I have seen another supposed “cult recovery” site that allowed such intimidation of people who were weak from the religious abuse they have suffered, but RA (I assure you) has better sense than that. 🙂

And even though I myself have not been through TM with any of these folks I can share that that kind of post will serve to intimidate and scare away people who are presently week from the abuse they suffered and also perhaps in the most need to discuss these issues in a safe place.

Plus, as far as issues like these turning into actual lawsuits, even for people who have the money, a cooperative D.A. (as needed), and the fortitude still in them after the institutional abuse they went through a lawsuit is a gamble and no easy task.

I was already figuring that out too Ra, I think you are right. 🙂

Jeff-

I’m sorry, I am so disgusted by the actions and the abuse it has put people through. I see many people say, we just need to forgive and forget. And that’s true, for your own recovery, but there seems a need for legal action to shut this place down and keep it from hurting any more people. I keep asking that question, because I am simply amazed that no parent or former intern can look at these videos and not think it’s time for some true authorities to step in and make them stop! I hope that is more clear-I’m sorry if it came across otherwise….

What’s worse Anon is when they say—

“That was years ago, things have changed”

I have faith in people and as a counselor believe that change is possible— but NOT without a LOT of intervention and help.

Abusers don’t stop abusing without some serious help and interventions. I don’t believe that TM has gotten that serious help and therefore do not believe that they have changed.

See Hannah’s Story about ESOAL. That took place in Fall 2010. They haven’t changed; they just want people to think they have so they can somehow avoid any accountability for their actions. Classic profile of an abuser.

Anonymous-

I appreciate your clarification of your intentions. And for whatever it’s worth I agree with you 100%. But with the legal system and politics being what they are a lawsuit and accountability is no easy thing. And while in the case of abuse I would support any attempt to stop abuse whether it is religious or not I also realize that even asking or promoting such things may not serve the legitimate needs of any particular victim. And it is certainly up to them to decide, not me.

The hole crawl exercise is used in the U.S. Army Sniper School.

Anon @ 8:50 — And dangerous driving is used in film stunts, but it would be very unwise to try it in other conditions. See the post A Marine’s Point of View for more.

I’m not sure what anonymous at 8:50 pm on April 2nd’s point is – whether, or not he thinks it is acceptable, or not acceptable, because the Army does it.

I’m not sure there is anyone on staff with TMM who is professionally trained to facilitate these kind of events (certainly not Heath).

I just don’t see anywhere in the Bible where Jesus or his apostles had their “followers” pay to work for them and then put them through planned, organized, physical / psychological pain and hardship in order to develop their spiritual acuity. Really – that’s what most of the LTE’s are. The emotions and pain the interns feel is real, but everything else is just hype. It’s a sham.

I’m not seeing an opposing viewpoints, so I ask myself if everyone is on the same line of thinking…guess I’ll find out if I’m the only one. I myself never believed ESOAL had a spiritual purpose. It’s not called Spiritually Stretching Opportunity of a Lifetime (or SSOAL), because it’s EMOTIONALLY stretching. At no point did I hear anyone say that I would be a better Christian for it. Yes, I memorized Scripture for the event, depressing Scriptures about pain, horror, beating my body, etc., but I knew the retreat’s focus was to push me to my emotional limits. Not everyone has the same emotional boundaries…different temperaments, etc…pride has a HUGE place in ESOAL, a lot of people refuse to ring out based on principle, or the fear of being ridiculed after the weekend is over “oh that’s so-and-so, they rang out like a wuss” or whatever. I know a lot of people who rang out. Most of those people learned something about stress, about themselves. To be completely honest, I believe they learned something about humility that I didn’t learn for quite a long time afterward. The mentality that people who finish ESOAL without “wussing out” are somehow better is a fallacy. Peer pressure in this regard is extremely strong. Yes, I’m sure “the Well” sucked. ESOAL isn’t meant to be a fun time, nor even a safe one. But face it, dark cramped places, paintball guns, etc., using fear & ridicule & shame, someone really wants to equate that with radical Islam? Dude, they’re not making anyone do any radical stunts with razor blades or anything. How many people who posted here actual facilitated ESOAL before? We had meetings throughout, even prayer for the interns that were going through it in the midst of it. If you want to suggest that any part of ESOAL was spiritual, you could say it turned a lot of people to pray when they had no other choice.

Life sucks, really. Believing that I was called to missions work, I chose to look at the weekend as preparation for the potentially rough conditions of prison (China, for example, not friendly toward most religions)…yes, I realize that the likelihood of China imprisoning an American missionary is pretty slim because of the diplomatic implications, but Paul probably did too as a Roman citizen…didn’t stop him from being beaten and arrested anyways.

I’m not belittling the horrors of ESOAL. They are what they are. I do not understand the feelings of disgust that several of you hold against it. Did you not sign up for it? Did the not say it would be tough? I would really like to hear the answer to those questions and to understand what is different about people’s expectations from the reality.

Ok so you realize what the horrors of ESOAL are to you you realize and accept that these exist without much argument but you say that we signed up for it… Well even given that there IS a way out if you don’t WANT to do it (or physically can’t). Lets say you start your internship and you know it’s gonna get bad but because all you have seen is the TM sponsored promo-videos you know nothing about the drainage pipe, or being used as paintball target practice with little or no protective gear. You have vague ideas about positions workouts and Wet and Sandy, long runs ect. You are not prepared for how sick you get or that people will taunt you with how weak you are for wanting to ring the bell or having to do extra pushups at 3am after 20 straight hours of physical activities because you made missteps in the “dance competition”. You can’t properly CHOOSE to do something when you don’t know what it is really. IF TM was willing to say OK here are the events we will be doing you will be doing a combination of these events OVER AND OVER during ESOAL and we will be screaming in your ear how worthless you are even though we love you. WE will act like we hate you and will give you no love till you ring out or finish during this time we want you to be so physically and emotionally drained as to not be able to properly use either ones for several days after. THIS would be enough disclosure for barely adults to make their own decisions about going. Every year most interns going in not knowing what to expect but being told that they need this to become a better leader. They need to break themselves of needless emotions. I say that last part as this is a direct QUOTE from Heath. This is a problem because we were created in the image of a loving God our emotions are part of that image so to shut them down is to break part of what makes us like GOD.

I am extraordinarily late to comment on this, but seeing those boys crawl out of that tunnel *did* nearly stop my heart. I’m a firefighter and I know about confined spaces. I also know how incredibly, insanely dangerous confined space training is. A recruit in a neighboring county died during fire academy confined space training the year that I was going through my fire academy. She got stuck and freaked out and the safety officers just could not get to her fast enough. Granted, she was also wearing structural firefighting gear and an SCBA, so it’s not a one-to-one comparison, but, nevertheless, crawling through a tunnel with no egress is absolutely no joke. The fact that the facilitator was bullying a crying teen (“want to use the wimp out card?”) into going into that tunnel is unconscionable and (to me) incontrovertible proof that the facilitator is egregiously unqualified to be overseeing that type of activity.

Is it just me or did Heath’s message at the end sound like an abusive husband/father? “You signed up to do this.” = “Tell your teachers that you fell down the stairs.” Passing the blame from the guilty party to the victim… just sick!

I couldn’t even finish watching this shit. Does ESOAL even really help you with hard times or cause it. I know a couple who the wife in an alumni who a few years back almost lost their newborn child because of health complications. When asked if ESOAL could have made her prepared for this, she looked at me like I had 3 heads and then said- “I’m going to write to Dave Hasz and tell hime what it is really like to have an Emotional Streatching Opportunity.” I will make sure that none of my neices or nephews ever get involved with this Organization.