I’m not really sure why the Honor Academy thinks it is exempt from so many New Testament teachings.
Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. Romans 15:7
You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? Romans 14:10
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. I John 4:18
Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Gal. 3:2-3
Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. Col. 2:20-23
Teen Mania supporters respond to my question by saying “Well, it’s a leadership program” or “It’s not for everybody” or “It’s not rehab” or “Interns knew what they were signing up for.”
I didn’t realize that I could supersede Scripture by coming up with my own discipleship program and stating the rules up front. What an amazing loophole!
12 comments:
Fascinating. I distinctly remember Hasz saying that we ARE supposed to judge fellow believers.
Huh.September 14, 2010 9:13 AM
CarrieSaum said…
The Col. 2:20-23 verses really is wonderful. I especially love the wording from The Message:
20-23So, then, if with Christ you’ve put all that pretentious and infantile religion behind you, why do you let yourselves be bullied by it? “Don’t touch this! Don’t taste that! Don’t go near this!” Do you think things that are here today and gone tomorrow are worth that kind of attention? Such things sound impressive if said in a deep enough voice. They even give the illusion of being pious and humble and ascetic. But they’re just another way of showing off, making yourselves look important.
Thanks, RA.September 14, 2010 9:23 AM
Joe said…
Nunquam –
Aside from whatever Hasz might or might not have said – it’s more complicated than ALWAYS judge or ALWAYS don’t judge. Paul tells us in the above verse not to judge our Christian family over matters of conscience – eating, drinking, worship styles, etc. In other verses, he clarifies and says we ARE to judge each other over big picture items.
Example: Dude comes to church, goes to Bible Study, professes Christ as Lord. Dude smokes cigarettes, has tattoos, and loves death metal. These would be things we should not judge him on, as long as his conscience is clear in those matters. (And that works in reverse, too…the Heavy Metal kids need to be careful to not judge the Ned Flanders crew as long as errrrbody loves Jesus.)
Dude is also seriously, incredibly lazy. His Christian family should talk to him about that. Find out what the deal is, try to help. If he is just flat out lazy and apathetic without any mitigating circumstances, at that point – fellow Christians should – LOVINGLY – say, “Hey, Dude. I love you, buddy, but this is a big problem here. Here’s what the Word says. I’m here for you, and am ready to help, but Dude, you’ve gotta make some changes in this area of your life.”
I know you probably know all that. But the verse quoted and the comment there makes the issue kind of one-sided, and oversimplification of things is, in my limited experience, not very helpful in the long run. We gots to have both the non-judging over matters of conscience, and for the health of the Christian family, judging over the essential or clear matters of the faith.September 14, 2010 11:55 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Yes, Joe, I agree there is more nuance than what I’ve presented here. Thanks for pointing that out. Its a good discussion to have.
In my experience, the majority of judgment at TM does have to do with issues of conscience, which is why I didn’t include a disclaimer.September 14, 2010 12:17 PM
Brandon said…
Well said Joe. I remember listening to Pastor Robert Morris of Gateway Church preach very much the same thing. We ARE responsible for our brothers, as much as we are responsible to God.
However, RA, I fail to see how TM ignores or acts as if they supersede these scriptures? Are you saying that the HA should accept everybody or tune the internship so that nobody is turned away? I’m asking honestly, not to start an argument.September 14, 2010 5:37 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Brandon, as long as the HA is touted as a way to get closer to God, I believe they have to act in line with Scripture in terms of not rejecting believers for not being “good enough.”
If they want to turn the HA into nothing more than a “leadership academy” or free labor force – with performance in those programs not tied to your spiritual greatness – then at that point they can be free to pick and choose amongst applicants and dismiss them according to program rules. My 2 cents.September 14, 2010 5:40 PM
Shiloh said…
So, on this. (mainly about what Joe said.)
I have a new believer friend. She is FREAKING AMAZING. Loves Jesus with her whole heart. I’m talking the fireball that is always doing something crazy cause she’s lovesick.
She had a hard background. (Real tough.) and has a lot to deal with. She lied to me about something. It was a pretty big something she lied about and she covered it up. She didn’t want to tell me she lied, so she just dropped the subject.
So I dropped the subject too.
Can I get a clarification. Am I to confront everything?September 15, 2010 9:21 AM
Renae said…
I have a question for everyone…
What side (conscience or big picture) does homosexuality fall on?
I know it’s a very touchy subject for most Christians, both ways. Should we confront Christian homosexuals in love, or is it a matter of conscience?
I’m asking because I honestly wonder what people think. I’m very conflicted on the subject myself.September 15, 2010 9:33 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Shiloh – Withouth knowing the entire situation, here is what I would do….Recognize that she probably lied b/c she was afraid of something. Not because she was rebellious. Maybe she was afraid of what you would think of her? I hate the word “confrontation” for situations like this. If it were me, I would say, “Friend, there is nothing you can say or do that would make me think less of you. I love you and respect you. I really want to be able to trust you but now I’m not sure how to do that. Please help me understand why you felt the need to lie to me. That hurt me and I don’t want anything to come between us.”
This takes fear out of the equation. Perfect loves casts out fear, because fear has to do with punishment.September 15, 2010 10:22 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Renae – that is a can of worms. 🙂
If a discussion ensues on this topic, comments from both sides must be charitable and respectful….else you’ll face the mighty delete button.September 15, 2010 10:35 AM
Interesting… said…
I believe you forgot a Scripture when it comes to judging those within the body of Christ…to get it all in context read 1 Corinthians 5 & 6. Here is part of it:
1 Corinthians 5
9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.
12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked man from among you.”
Chapter 6
1If any of you has a dispute with another, dare he take it before the ungodly for judgment instead of before the saints? 2Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? 3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 4Therefore, if you have disputes about such matters, appoint as judges even men of little account in the church! 5I say this to shame you. Is it possible that there is nobody among you wise enough to judge a dispute between believers? 6But instead, one brother goes to law against another—and this in front of unbelievers!September 24, 2010 1:33 AM
Interesting… said…
Also…for the Scriptures that you posted, I suggest you not just pick and choose which part of the chapter you would like to throw in there to justify your point. Who was he writing to and what exactly was he addressing, because if we just take it as we want like that then there is a contradiction in Scripture where one verse is telling us to judge those within the church and the other is telling us not to judge our brother…September 24, 2010 1:36 AM