October 1, 2012
Guest Post: On Recovery
This post is written by community member, Shannon Ashley.
22 comments:
Thanks for sharing, Shannon! Good luck on your novel writing.
Beautiful sharing you are an amazing beautiful person much <3
“A good student might flunk out of college after leaving a cult.” While I’d like to see some research to back that up, (cut me some slack, I’m a scientist.) I wholeheartedly agree. I’m on the verge of flunking out of university. I’m on my last semester and if I don’t make it, then I have to either try again somewhere else or stop being a student entirely.
Even if I do make it, my bad grades are a hindrance to my future plans of becoming a doctor. What med school wants a 2.0 student? I was a great student in high school and I’m still a smart person, wicked smart, even. Yet I can’t do college.
I blame a lot of my failures on Teen Mania. I’ve been going to therapy for 2 1/2 years now to overcome all of the BS I was put through. Being diagnosed with major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder hasn’t helped much and I again give all credit to Teen Mania for that.
“In a cult, you spend your time taking in so much information that there’s no opportunity to develop your own ideas. In fact, your inner thoughts aren’t allowed to be your own and personal opinions are pushed aside to make room for the group ideals”
Solid, Shannon.
Shannon, thank you for sharing; You articulated very well what some people go through after being apart of a cult. I hope the best for you. I am very happy for you. You sound like you are on the road to recovery and this is was counts. Blessings to you always. God loves us and will never forsake His children.
Wow, this will take further searching and reading to validate the claim of TM and HA being so damaging and hurtful. Although they have some very week areas, Calling it a cult is not justified when using a true definition of a cult. This was the first article I read after stumbling onto this site, and for it to have no scripture references, well, nobody but your own will take this seriously. Don’t be offended by that, God’s word is life and full of power. 2 Timothy 2:15 says we are to study it, and be able to teach it, which pleases God.
Sean,
Not everyone who visits here considers themselves Christian, so some of the posts have no references to scripture. Take a read of the other similar stories before making a judgement on whether it is a cult. I think you will find that it is a cult, by every definition out there.
Sean – Here are a few Bible verses that come to mind supporting the points in the post:
“So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him in his work all the days of the life God has given him under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 8:15).
“Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.” (2 Corinthians 2:17).
“For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.” (1 John 3:20)
If you do further searching and reading, you will indeed find many Scripture references discussed in the archives here. I’ve also written a biblical evaluation of Teen Mania’s theology, which can be found at this link: Teen Mania and Works-Based Doctrine.
However, I agree with Shannon K. that there are many other ways to demonstrate that Teen Mania is hurtful / abusive besides just quoting Scripture. Facts, evidence, logic, and experience, for instance. I’d encourage you to read up on the definitions of a cult– biblical and otherwise– and see how Teen Mania measures up to them. You might be surprised.
Hi Sean,
I’m the author of this post. If you look through the history of the RA website, you’ll see there are many posts and comments which post more scripture, direct quotes and facts which even TM must admit.
I wrote this post about my recovery process. For many years, I did not believe that the Honor Academy was a cult. In fact, I have mentioned on this site before that I started a xanga blog ring named “No, Teen Mania is Not a Cult.” I internalized and took full blame for my post-TM symptoms and it took several years to consider that TM could be a cult. Once I began to read more about the natures of cult and indoctrination, I was able to better understand that there isn’t an excuse for abusive behavior.
Today, I maintain a Christian identity but am empathetic to the fact that it is not the case for everyone on this site. As I continue my recovery, I am more interested in discussing my experience and helping others know that they are not alone if they have been through similar things. I don’t write apologetics or newspaper-worthy articles. I write about post-cult trauma as I have seen it.
Addition to my reply above:
Colossians 2:6-22 is a passage I particularly equate with TM and the HA. Also Isaiah 58:6-12
There are many verses throughout the Bible to tell us that God loves the brokenhearted, and that Christians are called to love. “Hazing” and other abusive actions taken by the HA are not so well supported.
One could argue that the Bible itself never references a “cult”, so how could we ever have a definition for something the Bible doesn’t discuss? In that case, I think it is useful to look at passages about false teachers, etc. What does the Bible say about abuse? Legalism? Love?
I rarely quote Bible verses about TM anymore because to me, after all of these years, I think it’s common sense that abuse is wrong. There is never an okay reason to belittle others, to scar your students, ignore their safety, etc. I’m now able to look back on the things I had to do at the HA and think–wow! The manipulation was monstrous.
Shannon I thought you were Atheist……I’m so confused over what you believe
Anon,
There are two Shannon’s in this community. I am Shannon Kish. I am an atheist. I always sign my comments with my full name, Shannon Kish. I am NOT the author of this post.
The other Shannon is the author of this post. She still considers herself a Christian. She signs her comments with Shannon and sometimes her full name (which I won’t give since it isn’t my place to do so).
Sorry for the confusion. 🙂
Also, my comments always link back to my blogger/google account, since that is how I sign them. It also has my picture, albeit a very old one, but one nonetheless. 🙂
Lol, thanks for clearing that up, SK! I haven’t commented on this site for a long time! I usually include a link to a blog under my name and think I usually use my screen name shannikitty or my first/middle Shannon-Ashley. I prefer to not use my last name. But since the post referenced my first name, as do my previous stories on the RA site, that’s what I used on my comment.
I should probably go with my pen name and keep it consistent from now on (Ashley Shannon).
Oh–in response to Sean who was commenting that TM doesnt fit the true definition of a cult–I have to ask–what is your definition?
There is a lot of info to be found by cult experts but here is a nice link that gives a variety of cult characteristics by different experts.
http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm
Shannon- I wish I were close enough to hug you. So proud of you for going to therapy because I feel that sometimes we can’t get out of a cycle in our brain, and can’t identify what’s going wrong, we just know it’s broken somewhere. Getting over the fears of therapy, of what you might learn, or what others may perceive was so brave. I’m seriously hoping that other people who are experiencing this cycle of pain will take a page out of your book and brave the telling and exploring of things that happened either in Teen Mania or their experiences elsewhere. Our COO says therapy is the best gift you can give yourself.
On finding your voice, I offer a story/quote from Neil Gaiman’s “Anansi Boys”
“Each person who ever was or is or will be has a song. It isn’t a song that anybody else wrote. It has its own melody, it has its own words. Very few people get to sing their song. Most of us fear that we cannot do it justice with our voices, or that our words are too foolish or too honest, or too odd. So people live their song instead.”
Good luck.
-suzzie burke
Anonymous says: October 11, 2012 2:17 PM
“Honor Academy=Not a cult….not a cult…not a cult…”
Would you care to expand upon your assertion? There are many different sets of characteristics which experts use to identify cults and I have found that TM fits those definitions.
American Family Foundation (14 Characteristics)
*The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
* The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
* The group is preoccupied with making money.
* Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
* Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
* The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
* The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
* The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
* The group’s leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
* The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
* The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
* Members’ subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
* Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
* Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
Shannon’s name has been updated in the post for clarification.
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Thanks for sharing, Shannon! Good luck on your novel writing.
Beautiful sharing you are an amazing beautiful person much <3
“A good student might flunk out of college after leaving a cult.” While I’d like to see some research to back that up, (cut me some slack, I’m a scientist.) I wholeheartedly agree. I’m on the verge of flunking out of university. I’m on my last semester and if I don’t make it, then I have to either try again somewhere else or stop being a student entirely.
Even if I do make it, my bad grades are a hindrance to my future plans of becoming a doctor. What med school wants a 2.0 student? I was a great student in high school and I’m still a smart person, wicked smart, even. Yet I can’t do college.
I blame a lot of my failures on Teen Mania. I’ve been going to therapy for 2 1/2 years now to overcome all of the BS I was put through. Being diagnosed with major depressive disorder and generalized anxiety disorder hasn’t helped much and I again give all credit to Teen Mania for that.
“In a cult, you spend your time taking in so much information that there’s no opportunity to develop your own ideas. In fact, your inner thoughts aren’t allowed to be your own and personal opinions are pushed aside to make room for the group ideals”
Solid, Shannon.
This post was AMAZING. Thank you Shannon!
really great post….thank you!!!
Shannon, thank you for sharing; You articulated very well what some people go through after being apart of a cult. I hope the best for you. I am very happy for you. You sound like you are on the road to recovery and this is was counts. Blessings to you always. God loves us and will never forsake His children.
Wow, this will take further searching and reading to validate the claim of TM and HA being so damaging and hurtful. Although they have some very week areas, Calling it a cult is not justified when using a true definition of a cult. This was the first article I read after stumbling onto this site, and for it to have no scripture references, well, nobody but your own will take this seriously. Don’t be offended by that, God’s word is life and full of power. 2 Timothy 2:15 says we are to study it, and be able to teach it, which pleases God.
Sean,
Not everyone who visits here considers themselves Christian, so some of the posts have no references to scripture. Take a read of the other similar stories before making a judgement on whether it is a cult. I think you will find that it is a cult, by every definition out there.
Sean – Here are a few Bible verses that come to mind supporting the points in the post:
“So I commend the enjoyment of life, because nothing is better for a man under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad. Then joy will accompany him in his work all the days of the life God has given him under the sun.” (Ecclesiastes 8:15).
“Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.” (2 Corinthians 2:17).
“For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.” (1 John 3:20)
If you do further searching and reading, you will indeed find many Scripture references discussed in the archives here. I’ve also written a biblical evaluation of Teen Mania’s theology, which can be found at this link: Teen Mania and Works-Based Doctrine.
However, I agree with Shannon K. that there are many other ways to demonstrate that Teen Mania is hurtful / abusive besides just quoting Scripture. Facts, evidence, logic, and experience, for instance. I’d encourage you to read up on the definitions of a cult– biblical and otherwise– and see how Teen Mania measures up to them. You might be surprised.
Hi Sean,
I’m the author of this post. If you look through the history of the RA website, you’ll see there are many posts and comments which post more scripture, direct quotes and facts which even TM must admit.
I wrote this post about my recovery process. For many years, I did not believe that the Honor Academy was a cult. In fact, I have mentioned on this site before that I started a xanga blog ring named “No, Teen Mania is Not a Cult.” I internalized and took full blame for my post-TM symptoms and it took several years to consider that TM could be a cult. Once I began to read more about the natures of cult and indoctrination, I was able to better understand that there isn’t an excuse for abusive behavior.
Today, I maintain a Christian identity but am empathetic to the fact that it is not the case for everyone on this site. As I continue my recovery, I am more interested in discussing my experience and helping others know that they are not alone if they have been through similar things. I don’t write apologetics or newspaper-worthy articles. I write about post-cult trauma as I have seen it.
Addition to my reply above:
Colossians 2:6-22 is a passage I particularly equate with TM and the HA. Also Isaiah 58:6-12
There are many verses throughout the Bible to tell us that God loves the brokenhearted, and that Christians are called to love. “Hazing” and other abusive actions taken by the HA are not so well supported.
One could argue that the Bible itself never references a “cult”, so how could we ever have a definition for something the Bible doesn’t discuss? In that case, I think it is useful to look at passages about false teachers, etc. What does the Bible say about abuse? Legalism? Love?
I rarely quote Bible verses about TM anymore because to me, after all of these years, I think it’s common sense that abuse is wrong. There is never an okay reason to belittle others, to scar your students, ignore their safety, etc. I’m now able to look back on the things I had to do at the HA and think–wow! The manipulation was monstrous.
Shannon I thought you were Atheist……I’m so confused over what you believe
Anon,
There are two Shannon’s in this community. I am Shannon Kish. I am an atheist. I always sign my comments with my full name, Shannon Kish. I am NOT the author of this post.
The other Shannon is the author of this post. She still considers herself a Christian. She signs her comments with Shannon and sometimes her full name (which I won’t give since it isn’t my place to do so).
Sorry for the confusion. 🙂
Also, my comments always link back to my blogger/google account, since that is how I sign them. It also has my picture, albeit a very old one, but one nonetheless. 🙂
Lol, thanks for clearing that up, SK! I haven’t commented on this site for a long time! I usually include a link to a blog under my name and think I usually use my screen name shannikitty or my first/middle Shannon-Ashley. I prefer to not use my last name. But since the post referenced my first name, as do my previous stories on the RA site, that’s what I used on my comment.
I should probably go with my pen name and keep it consistent from now on (Ashley Shannon).
Oh–in response to Sean who was commenting that TM doesnt fit the true definition of a cult–I have to ask–what is your definition?
There is a lot of info to be found by cult experts but here is a nice link that gives a variety of cult characteristics by different experts.
http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/uploads/CultCharacteristics.htm
Shannon- I wish I were close enough to hug you. So proud of you for going to therapy because I feel that sometimes we can’t get out of a cycle in our brain, and can’t identify what’s going wrong, we just know it’s broken somewhere. Getting over the fears of therapy, of what you might learn, or what others may perceive was so brave. I’m seriously hoping that other people who are experiencing this cycle of pain will take a page out of your book and brave the telling and exploring of things that happened either in Teen Mania or their experiences elsewhere. Our COO says therapy is the best gift you can give yourself.
On finding your voice, I offer a story/quote from Neil Gaiman’s “Anansi Boys”
“Each person who ever was or is or will be has a song. It isn’t a song that anybody else wrote. It has its own melody, it has its own words. Very few people get to sing their song. Most of us fear that we cannot do it justice with our voices, or that our words are too foolish or too honest, or too odd. So people live their song instead.”
Good luck.
-suzzie burke
Honor Academy=Not a cult….not a cult…not a cult…
Anonymous says: October 11, 2012 2:17 PM
“Honor Academy=Not a cult….not a cult…not a cult…”
Would you care to expand upon your assertion? There are many different sets of characteristics which experts use to identify cults and I have found that TM fits those definitions.
American Family Foundation (14 Characteristics)
*The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
* The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
* The group is preoccupied with making money.
* Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
* Mind-numbing techniques (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, debilitating work routines) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
* The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel (for example: members must get permission from leaders to date, change jobs, get married; leaders may prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, how to discipline children, and so forth).
* The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members (for example: the leader is considered the Messiah or an avatar; the group and/or the leader has a special mission to save humanity).
* The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
* The group’s leader is not accountable to any authorities (as are, for example, military commanders and ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream denominations).
* The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group (for example: collecting money for bogus charities).
* The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
* Members’ subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.
* Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
* Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
Shannon’s name has been updated in the post for clarification.
Recovering Alumni=Not a cult….not a cult…not a cult…