“Yeah, but it was really a long time ago. I left in 2001.” I didn’t mean to sound disinterested. But the words came out automatically and I saw a flicker of disappointment in their eyes. I promptly went back to talking about The Pink Room and Agape International Mission.
Later that evening, a friend asked where I was going to church. I began to say I was trying different places based on letters I had sent to a number of churches, askingĀ whetherĀ or not they support TM and would consider taking their youth to Acquire the Fire conventions. Because their support of TM is currently aĀ deal breakerĀ for me. But I stopped, recalling that I had two alumni in the room who appeared to be very much in love with Teen Mania and I found myself a little bit at a loss.
The thing is, those girls were the first alumni whom I’ve met face to face in years. All I could think was that when I was their age and recently out of the Honor Academy, I was starting blog rings like “No, Teen Mania is Not a Cult” on Xanga. I was defending the HA against my college classmates’ questions. I even encouraged one friend to enroll and he did. And I was extremely judgmental and caught up in a doctrine focused on avoiding the appearance of evil. I had very little understanding of Love or Grace.
It’s such a surreal experience to meet alumni now, particularly new ones. I want to be sensitive to the place they’re coming from, and not negate any of the good they experienced during the internship. I know much of my own healing has been related to the freedom to call the good good and bad bad. To understand that abuse in the name of spiritual growth is not okay, but wisdom can still be gleaned from bad situations. And I can be grateful for meeting really wonderful friends as a result of my Teen Mania experience.Ā But this whole thing of meeting alumni affected me. And then we had an anonymous comment made on my Love is Louder entry last week, which put extra weight upon my heart:
“My experience as a parent is with Campus Crusade For Christ. My daughter had trouble making friends sophomore year of college, so starting going to things involved with them, and then went on a retreat. She came back a changed person, and to me, not a good change. I lost the daughter who was vibrant, random, funny, etc. She now tries so hard to follow God, and won’t even so much as look at a fella with his shirt off. I’ve tried talking to her, but she get so defensive. She is happy that she finally has friends, but truly to me, has no life. She is always trying to “save” someone, and I wish I could save her. She had so many dreams, and no they push for them to come on staff once they graduate. I’m hoping this is just a phase, but worry that it’s not. I don’t expect a response, but just have to talk about it sometimes, because so much of it makes me so sad. Thanks for listening.”
Does that sound familiar to you? It certainly resonates with me. I don’t know the actual situation with this parent and their daughter. But I understand why one might have concerns. Particularly when it seems this parent has seen her child lose her life and vibrancy–that’s a red flag for me. When a young person gets involved with a Christian ministry, whether it’s Teen Mania, Campus Crusade, YWAM, or anyone else. the expectation is “this will bring me closer to God.” Or “this will make me a better person and build character.” The main reason any of us became interns was because we wanted to make a difference in the world.
There’s nothing wrong with that. I think it’s something to be cherished, that we have these hearts which so badly want to Love others and lead a different kind of life. There’s nothing shameful or naĆÆve about it. But there’s a definite challenge when we emerge from this religious experience and return to our everyday life–we have to determine what faith looks like as lived out by us.
Teen Mania uses debriefing. It’s essentially reeducation on how to live after going through an intense experience. Debriefing at the Honor Academy involved writing out a personal “sabre”. A code of conduct stating what we would and wouldn’t do when we went home. I could probably write a book about all of the issues I have with that, but for today, I think it’s worth noting that no one can tell you what your life should be. They can’t tell you what your faith ought to look like from the outside any more than they can tell you what to think or feel on the inside. Oh, they’ll tell you alright, but it’ll be coercion. It may affect you, you may listen to them and act accordingly, as I did, but it won’t make your faith real. It amounts to simply following laws and regulations–cleaning the outside of the cup–so it has no effect on moving our hearts to love. Frankly, I see that as a huge problem within Teen Mania and Christianity on the whole.
The advice that I would give a parent in the situation like Anonymous is to first and foremost love your child. Do everything you can to create a safe environment where your daughter feels free to discuss her experiences within and beyond the Christian group. Ask her questions about what she thinks and feels without judgment or even offering many answers. She’s going to have to sort things out for herself and really just needs to be reassured that she is valued and worthy and there’s nothing she can do to be more loved by God.
Personally, I would recommend reading a couple books on spiritual abuse and cults. My favorites are The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse and Take Back Your Life. I’d also recommend the films Blue Like Jazz and Paradise Recovered. Try to go through these with your child and have frank discussions about faith and her ideas about what a Christian life looks like. You might wish to also check out Relevant Magazine. Really, do everything you can to expose your kid to cult/abuse awareness, Grace and Love.
Ultimately I believe that leading a life of faith should add to anĀ individual’sĀ joy–not take it away. If dreams are being pushed aside in an effort to “save” people, it’s a sign to me that something has gone wrong and it’s not a healthy faith. Recovering Alumni, do you agree? What suggestions do you have for parents of young people who’ve found religion but lost their joy?
18 comments:
My religion isn’t really christianity or a subsidiary but what I would say is belief in anything should about power to give joy to others, that isn’t by forcing your ideas on someone but by serving them in a way.
Couldn’t agree more! It took me over 10 years to realize it was ok to have joy in my life…trying to follow “the standard” leads to obedience without vibrance and LIFE. I just hope it takes everyone less time than it took me to figure that out!
Words like “joy” and “faith” are so tricky, because as a Christian, you’re supposed to have them. Environments like TM create scenarios where it’s so very difficult to be deep-down honest about how you truly feel. Part of that is because you’re so busy all the time you don’t have a chance to listen to yourself. But there are other reasons too.
So…. I agree faith should bring joy. Totally agree. But I think a whole helluvalotta christians would swear they have both and in fact they are dying inside.
Redheaded One: “Forcing your ideas on others” is a common complaint of Christianity, yet I wonder how many people see Jesus as forcing his ideas on others… I think there’s a serious disconnect when so many followers seem compelled to use some sort of force.
RA: I remember one of the first things you ever told me was that it’s okay to enjoy life–that statement will always stay with me.
Wanderer: I like the point you make. I agree. Lots of Christians swear they have joy and in my experience, lots of Christians lie to themselves and others about that. It’s part of the dysfunction and dishonesty of religion.
G. K. Chesterton taught me to do it:
A characteristic of the great saints is their power of levity. Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly. … Pride is the downward drag of all things into an easy solemnity. One “settles down” into a sort of selfish seriousness; but one has to rise to a gay self-forgetfulness. A man “falls” into a brown study; he reaches up at a blue sky. Seriousness is not a virtue. It would be a heresy, but a much more sensible heresy, to say that seriousness is a vice. It is really a natural trend or lapse into taking one’s self gravely, because it is the easiest thing to do. It is much easier to write a good Times leading article than a good joke in Punch. For solemnity flows out of men naturally; but laughter is a leap. It is easy to be heavy: hard to be light. Satan fell by the force of gravity.
All too often I saw interns that were trying to live with ‘joy’ but didn’t honestly know what that meant. As a result, there were a lot of people walking around with big fake smiles plastered on their faces, but really hurting on the inside. Oh how very enlighting it was for me when I finally learned that joy did not equal constant happiness. It sounds simple, but within TM’s perfect intern doctrine, you can sometimes be made to feel as if you have to appear happy or else you aren’t walking in faith or the joy of the Lord. And heaven forbid you complain about anything or ‘state the obvious’….but that is a whole different topic.
Eric: What a great, fitting quote. “It is easy to be heavy: hard to be light.” How that resonates with me!
Green Girl: YES! The big fake plastered smiles are an incredible problem. You bring up an all too familiar feeling about “complaining” within the internship. And I think that many critics who visit this blog are still caught up in that mentality that talking about something “negative” or complaining about a situation is ultimately wrong.
Excellent post, Shannon. You make many good points.
However, let me offer my perspective on something. You say, āI want to be sensitive to the place they’re coming from, and not negate any of the good they experienced during the internship.ā I think that says much that is good about you, and points to what a naturally sweet person you are. But, I would encourage you to feel free to speak your truth without feeling so much like you have to protect the feelings of the former interns. If you are too concerned about making them uncomfortable you may deny them the opportunity to benefit from the things that you have to share with themāthings you had to learn the hard way.
Doug, thank you for your feedback. This is something I am definitely working on–feeling free to speak and find my voice, and in reality I really do want to speak honestly. As a introverted thinker, I also prefer to take time to mull over my words before I say them. So I’m seeking a balance.
I’m setting up another screening with the same group to watch Paradise Recovered, so I’m looking forward to having a conversation with those alumni again, where I can share a bit of my post HA story š
Also: may I just say that I’m very tickled by the irony that you’re the same person who started the Xanga blogring “No, Teen Mania Is Not a Cult”? I remember seeing that back in the day when I was first starting to look for information on TM, and taking some time to pray for the people involved. Evidently it worked.
This also suggests an answer to your question, of course, since if someone’s views can evolve that dramatically in a comparatively short time, then there’s reason to hope for just about anyone. Today’s diehard TM defenders may be tomorrow’s countercult bloggers. Experience will prove sooner or later that TM’s brand of legalism just plain doesn’t work. (The Bible even says so, Colossians 2, but some of us need to learn it the hard way…)
Along those lines, I think it’s evident that “I need to be joyful” or “I choose joy” (Haszwords) is something no truly joyful person would ever need to say. It would be like going to a comedy show and thinking, “I really need to laugh here, I have to laugh, but should I say ‘ha ha ha’ or ‘hee hee hee’?” That’s not how it works. Joy is the fruit of the Spirit, after all, not the result of willpower. Joy comes from having freedom (at least spiritually), so a rule that forces you to be joyful is counterproductive. “God… richly gives us all things to enjoy” (1 Timothy 6:17).
Eric, it’s true. As hard as it’s been, I love the journey God has given me. I have a joy or peace that I never knew before, I suppose because I’ve been through so much mud and emerged from it all very much in tact.
Legalism is such a detriment to our very lives. I don’t care if it’s TM, Hasz brand, within a family or other churches, etc. The Law convicts and kills… it’s a chain around our necks. I pray for anyone who’s been under the Law and “loving it” to have a change of views and heart.
You make a good analogy with laughter and choosing joy. And generally I think there are so many things, natural things, which we try so hard to reproduce in Christianity… but that’s completely unnatural. Freedom would probably be a good topic to discuss further. It’s definitely mistaught within the internship.
Eric, I find your comment funny.
“Today’s diehard TM defenders may be tomorrow’s countercult bloggers”
The last time I was on the tm campus was 2010 and I swore left and right that tm wasn’t a cult. Just 11 months later, I joined this site. While I might not be a Blogger, there is definitely some truth in what you say.
Sean, you might not be a blogger but I definitely hear your voice here and on the FB group. It’s very strong š
My January interns just finished debriefing and are about to graduate… funny how it went down extremely differently than what you posted.
Hi Anonymous. I’d like to know how I’ve mischaracterized debriefing. I was a diehard HA supporter through my debriefing and I know exactly how the experience can seem like joy and not at all a legalistic thing. I still have some of my HA notes including drafts of my personal sabre, which during my year was a requirement.
That said, you didn’t provide any details as to how “your January interns” had a healthy experience with debriefing, so I’m left with the impression that you simply wanted to call out my post as a lie.
You are welcome to disagree with me and the rest of this community. I understand and don’t sweat it because I was bound by HA doctrine for many years. Most all of us were. I am grateful for freedom from religion and human laws.
SKitty
Dont feel the tolls they will always come back
Thank you so much for sharing the comment on Campus Crusade… I know that many people have great experiences with that organization, but that’s actually the group that I left, led by things that I learned and began working on mostly thanks to this website. I’ve just recently begun to get over the bitterness toward them and recognize that they, too, have their place and are not all bad… but it still helps and is very healing to know that I’m not the only one who has had negative experiences with them. Thank you.
Savedbygrace, you are most certainly not alone. Thanks for sharing.
My religion isnāt really christianity or a subsidiary but what I would say is belief in anything should about power to give joy to others, that isnāt by forcing your ideas on someone but by serving them in a way.
Couldnāt agree more! It took me over 10 years to realize it was ok to have joy in my lifeā¦trying to follow āthe standardā leads to obedience without vibrance and LIFE. I just hope it takes everyone less time than it took me to figure that out!
Words like ājoyā and āfaithā are so tricky, because as a Christian, youāre supposed to have them. Environments like TM create scenarios where itās so very difficult to be deep-down honest about how you truly feel. Part of that is because youāre so busy all the time you donāt have a chance to listen to yourself. But there are other reasons too.
Soā¦. I agree faith should bring joy. Totally agree. But I think a whole helluvalotta christians would swear they have both and in fact they are dying inside.
Redheaded One: āForcing your ideas on othersā is a common complaint of Christianity, yet I wonder how many people see Jesus as forcing his ideas on othersā¦ I think thereās a serious disconnect when so many followers seem compelled to use some sort of force.
RA: I remember one of the first things you ever told me was that itās okay to enjoy lifeāthat statement will always stay with me.
Wanderer: I like the point you make. I agree. Lots of Christians swear they have joy and in my experience, lots of Christians lie to themselves and others about that. Itās part of the dysfunction and dishonesty of religion.
G. K. Chesterton taught me to do it:
A characteristic of the great saints is their power of levity. Angels can fly because they can take themselves lightly. ā¦ Pride is the downward drag of all things into an easy solemnity. One āsettles downā into a sort of selfish seriousness; but one has to rise to a gay self-forgetfulness. A man āfallsā into a brown study; he reaches up at a blue sky. Seriousness is not a virtue. It would be a heresy, but a much more sensible heresy, to say that seriousness is a vice. It is really a natural trend or lapse into taking oneās self gravely, because it is the easiest thing to do. It is much easier to write a good Times leading article than a good joke in Punch. For solemnity flows out of men naturally; but laughter is a leap. It is easy to be heavy: hard to be light. Satan fell by the force of gravity.
All too often I saw interns that were trying to live with ājoyā but didnāt honestly know what that meant. As a result, there were a lot of people walking around with big fake smiles plastered on their faces, but really hurting on the inside. Oh how very enlighting it was for me when I finally learned that joy did not equal constant happiness. It sounds simple, but within TMās perfect intern doctrine, you can sometimes be made to feel as if you have to appear happy or else you arenāt walking in faith or the joy of the Lord. And heaven forbid you complain about anything or āstate the obviousāā¦.but that is a whole different topic.
Eric: What a great, fitting quote. āIt is easy to be heavy: hard to be light.ā How that resonates with me!
Green Girl: YES! The big fake plastered smiles are an incredible problem. You bring up an all too familiar feeling about ācomplainingā within the internship. And I think that many critics who visit this blog are still caught up in that mentality that talking about something ānegativeā or complaining about a situation is ultimately wrong.
Excellent post, Shannon. You make many good points.
However, let me offer my perspective on something. You say, āI want to be sensitive to the place theyāre coming from, and not negate any of the good they experienced during the internship.ā I think that says much that is good about you, and points to what a naturally sweet person you are. But, I would encourage you to feel free to speak your truth without feeling so much like you have to protect the feelings of the former interns. If you are too concerned about making them uncomfortable you may deny them the opportunity to benefit from the things that you have to share with themāthings you had to learn the hard way.
Doug, thank you for your feedback. This is something I am definitely working onāfeeling free to speak and find my voice, and in reality I really do want to speak honestly. As a introverted thinker, I also prefer to take time to mull over my words before I say them. So Iām seeking a balance.
Iām setting up another screening with the same group to watch Paradise Recovered, so Iām looking forward to having a conversation with those alumni again, where I can share a bit of my post HA story š
Also: may I just say that Iām very tickled by the irony that youāre the same person who started the Xanga blogring āNo, Teen Mania Is Not a Cultā? I remember seeing that back in the day when I was first starting to look for information on TM, and taking some time to pray for the people involved. Evidently it worked.
This also suggests an answer to your question, of course, since if someoneās views can evolve that dramatically in a comparatively short time, then thereās reason to hope for just about anyone. Todayās diehard TM defenders may be tomorrowās countercult bloggers. Experience will prove sooner or later that TMās brand of legalism just plain doesnāt work. (The Bible even says so, Colossians 2, but some of us need to learn it the hard wayā¦)
Along those lines, I think itās evident that āI need to be joyfulā or āI choose joyā (Haszwords) is something no truly joyful person would ever need to say. It would be like going to a comedy show and thinking, āI really need to laugh here, I have to laugh, but should I say āha ha haā or āhee hee heeā?ā Thatās not how it works. Joy is the fruit of the Spirit, after all, not the result of willpower. Joy comes from having freedom (at least spiritually), so a rule that forces you to be joyful is counterproductive. āGodā¦ richly gives us all things to enjoyā (1 Timothy 6:17).
Eric, itās true. As hard as itās been, I love the journey God has given me. I have a joy or peace that I never knew before, I suppose because Iāve been through so much mud and emerged from it all very much in tact.
Legalism is such a detriment to our very lives. I donāt care if itās TM, Hasz brand, within a family or other churches, etc. The Law convicts and killsā¦ itās a chain around our necks. I pray for anyone whoās been under the Law and āloving itā to have a change of views and heart.
You make a good analogy with laughter and choosing joy. And generally I think there are so many things, natural things, which we try so hard to reproduce in Christianityā¦ but thatās completely unnatural. Freedom would probably be a good topic to discuss further. Itās definitely mistaught within the internship.
Eric, I find your comment funny.
āTodayās diehard TM defenders may be tomorrowās countercult bloggersā
The last time I was on the tm campus was 2010 and I swore left and right that tm wasnāt a cult. Just 11 months later, I joined this site. While I might not be a Blogger, there is definitely some truth in what you say.
Lux, you might not be a blogger but I definitely hear your voice here and on the FB group. Itās very strong š
My January interns just finished debriefing and are about to graduateā¦ funny how it went down extremely differently than what you posted.
Hi Anonymous. Iād like to know how Iāve mischaracterized debriefing. I was a diehard HA supporter through my debriefing and I know exactly how the experience can seem like joy and not at all a legalistic thing. I still have some of my HA notes including drafts of my personal sabre, which during my year was a requirement.
That said, you didnāt provide any details as to how āyour January internsā had a healthy experience with debriefing, so Iām left with the impression that you simply wanted to call out my post as a lie.
You are welcome to disagree with me and the rest of this community. I understand and donāt sweat it because I was bound by HA doctrine for many years. Most all of us were. I am grateful for freedom from religion and human laws.
SKitty
Dont feel the tolls they will always come back
Thank you so much for sharing the comment on Campus Crusadeā¦ I know that many people have great experiences with that organization, but thatās actually the group that I left, led by things that I learned and began working on mostly thanks to this website. Iāve just recently begun to get over the bitterness toward them and recognize that they, too, have their place and are not all badā¦ but it still helps and is very healing to know that Iām not the only one who has had negative experiences with them. Thank you.
Savedbygrace, you are most certainly not alone. Thanks for sharing.