My TM first mission trip was to Guatemala in 1989 and it literally changed my life. Scott B. was my Team Leader, Dave Hasz was a Mission Advisor (on another team) and Teen Mania only went to 3 different countries for the summer.
It was hard, and good for me as a 17-year-old. I decided to go back as a Team Leader in 1993, 94 and 95, then was asked to be a PD in 1996, which I did. I learned some great things from TM and the leadership opportunities they provided me. I also, like you, agree that they are dangerous, and it sounds like they’ve gotten more-so since they moved to TX.
By the time I was in leadership with Teen Mania, my experience was already quite different than my first summer as a 17-year-old. When TM was new, they really prided themselves on having almost no “rules.” Scott B. used to make it clear they wanted to be very light on rules, and there were basically 3 rules (I believe) that would get you sent home, and other than that there were some other “guidelines,” but they made it clear that the rules they did have were for our safety, etc. and I really agreed. (Things like if you wander off by yourself and don’t tell anyone else where you are…. )
All the things I’m reading now about people not being able to sit by the other gender on a bus are absolutely shocking. This (among many other things) tells me Legalism is eating TM up from the inside out… it’s like TM’s own auto-immune disease, and it will only get worse unless DRASTIC steps are taken.
While I appreciate the opportunity provided for leadership at a young age, there were some difficult things I experienced that were exacerbated by the caustic environment at TM. In particular I’ve seen stories about GE trips gone awry on the blog but haven’t seen many contributions about how painful/hard & pressure-filled it is for Team Leaders/Project Directors (TLs/PDs) as well.
My first year as a TL I went to India. It was a first-time country for Teen Mania. None of us knew what we were getting into in India and my PD was clearly exhausting herself running everything all alone (her co-leader was brand new and had no business in that position, so was no help). Sickness was rampant on our teams, much of which could have been averted if we had basic sanitation, decent water & uncontaminated food at the place where we lived, I had one girl dislocate her knee on the bus while on our village trip, and we rode 5 hours over dirt “roads” looking for help with her screaming in agony. I remember no assistance or support from my PDs, when I finally got us home. I had no resources in the way of medical help; it was a miracle I found a hospital that was in any way clean. In fact, the only interaction I remember from my PD when I told her I was struggling with self-doubt as a leader was for her to tell me “watch your internal dialoguing.” So…basically, instead of helping me know how to lead, I was just supposed to not think negative thoughts. This was one of many, many, many crazy and dangerous things that happened that summer.
I literally couldn’t talk about that trip for weeks, if not months after. I felt like I had survived living in a warzone. I know that sounds ridiculous, it was just a 2 month trip, but it literally felt like I was trying to survive every single day. I think the teens & MAs that were on that trip with us are rock stars… they pulled together and helped each other through it.
My 3rd year as a TL, I was arrested by the Chinese government. I was detained and questioned by myself for several hours. We had been smuggling Bibles and passing out tracks in mainland China for a couple days (our trip was based in Hong Kong). Half of our team got arrested with me, but most of them were allowed to sit together in a room at the police station & drink tea without being “bothered.” I and a 15-year-old boy were both separated from the group and individually interrogated at length. It was one of the most mentally trying experiences I’ve ever gone through.
When we were finally released I was shaking, completely exhausted and felt like I needed some kind of debriefing/counseling. I felt the weight of the world on my shoulders as the police questioned me, pressing for names of our contacts, etc., knowing I literally had the fate of believers in China in my hands. It is not an exaggeration to say their lives were at stake. It was nothing like I was expecting from a summer trip. Again, I feel like my team was the most amazing group of young people; those who were not arrested had no idea where we were, so they organized themselves and stayed up praying until we were released & could get back to them.
When we returned to Hong Kong, I told my PD what happened. I do not remember a single discussion about it (beyond him saying “WHAT???” after I told him we were arrested). There was no process, no debrief. When we got back to Miami there was no acknowledgement from the leadership of TM that a team had gone through this, no offer of empathy or support of any kind. It’s like it never happened. And to be honest, for the longest time I never would tell anyone about it either, because it shook me so deeply. I still rarely tell people about it.
I can guarantee that whatever village simulations it sounds like they’re putting interns through during the internship are not helpful. In my opinion TM is needlessly placing young people in very stressful & dangerous situations. I could not have been prepared for what I went through by a simulation in Texas, and what’s more, I think life brings enough challenges without creating false “trials” like those “Life Transforming Events” I’m reading about on your blog.
When I was a PD my co-leader and I both contracted malaria at the same time, and we both had severe upper-respiratory infections to boot. I (truly not trying to sound dramatic) had thoughts that I might die right there in Africa. We phoned the office in Tulsa (at the time they hadn’t yet moved to TX) to ask for help, and the person on the other end of the phone told us to turn to the malaria page in the book “where there is no doctor.” That was it. When I got to Miami, I heard that Ron had been clearing his schedule to come to Ghana and relieve us, and that they had sent out notes to the other PDs to pray for us, but we turned the corner & started to improve before Ron actually came. The thing is no one ever told us all this was going on. We felt 100% out there on our own.
The entire time I was in leadership I felt a sense that I was failing. I feel sorry for the ways the teams I led did not get all they needed at times, because I had no more left to give myself. The leadership lessons I learned I would say really help me better in the corporate world, where they want you to be able to “perform” at all costs. I don’t remember loving Jesus more as a result of my experiences in leadership with TM. Usually I was so exhausted from lack of sleep and the feeling that I’m being held responsible for 30-100 people’s behavior (and that’s the truth…just how they look on the outside) that I could barely get much from quiet time or worship. There were OF COURSE good things and good memories and good friends that came along with my experiences too, and I’m not negating those. But I find myself gravely concerned about the ethos of TM, especially given the fact that I don’t see true Gospel actually being portrayed or preached. I see something called “Gospel” that is actually poison. People may come away from the HA feeling like they “grew”, or had a “positive experience”, but I question whether they actually grew in knowing CHRIST. The Gospel (as you know, from what I can tell in reading your blog) is this: we’re hopelessly lost, even the “strongest” of us. Jesus said “let me give you a gift that you will never been able to repay.” I said “okay, I believe you!” That’s it. From start to finish, that’s it. We’re in the Fam! I do not hear or see that expressed at TM or through the words of those who say they grew at TM.
One of the main reasons I chose to decline Dave Hasz’s invitation to be on staff was because of the way I saw friends who were on staff become burned out. I saw people who were unhealthy & co-dependent being drawn to TM, mistreated horribly, and who kept coming back. I saw a machine that had no time to listen to its people. Those I know who were in the internship (years ago) and would now still say it was a good experience, also are those who tend to be very performance-oriented and guilt-ridden or extremely unmerciful themselves…I tend to think those are the ones who “succeeded” in the performance game and don’t realize they’re even in it.
I honestly have long since let go of resentment that I felt toward TM. I am sharing these things because I believe it’s important to speak up when a system is so fundamentally flawed it literally victimizes people who operate on EVERY level.
44 comments:
Thank you for this perspective. I’m haunted to this day by an incredibly negative experience on one of my TM trips for which the TLs were almost entirely responsible. Until reading this story, I had literally never considered that they might have been doing the best they could with little training or support while managing stressful, unpredictable situations. I really needed to hear that to be able to have grace and forgiveness for what I experienced.
Reading this from the perspective of an outside observer, I think that the problems with Teen Mania are so profound that they are not fixable. The organization needs to go away.
Thank you Nancy.
Your story is crazy to me.
I was completely dumbfounded when I read the part of your story about being interrogated by the police in China.
It stuck out to me because you were actually doing something that was ILLEGAL.
Did Teen Mania think it was a joke? Taking bibles into CHINA? in the 90’s?! It sure sounds like something kinda fun huh? (sarcasm)
I remember the Unreached People Group lte. We were taught to preach our faith until we died. Like total idiots we were telling everyone off who didn’t believe what we did.
All I can think is what a nightmare that would have been if it had been the interns my year. It sounds like you had some kind of understanding of the ramifications. If it had been me or any of my friends we probably would have spit in the officers face telling them that Jesus is the only way and kill us if they must we’ll never recant.
wow.
It also stands out because it sounds like serious spiritual warfare to me. like- you were really fighting the good fight. Thank you for doing that work for the kingdom. I really mean that. Good work! That is incredible! And it looks to me like God REALLY used you!
I can only imagine the shock of returning back with zero rejoicing of the persecution faced and the spreading of the word that was done. It would definitely screw with my head (like much of what I went through at Teen Mania.) because it’s so anti-gospel.
For what it’s worth I’m blown away by your faith and thankful you are still fighting. 🙂
Hi …. this is Nancy….
Anon,
Thank you for your very kind response. I want to say on behalf of your TLs…. I’m so very very very sorry you had a horrible, negative experience that still affects you. I would be happy to listen if you feel like sharing more. wandererHA at gmail dot com
What you shared deserves to be heard. If not by me, then I hope you’re sharing with someone….thank you for your gracious response to my story.
Shiloh,
I’m extremely touched by your response. I’ve never had anyone say they were blown away by my faith in that situation. I feel very very humbled and grateful for what you wrote. I didn’t realize all of those things still affected me, but I feel like your words have brought some healing that needed to happen. Bless you.
ok. No one has said they were blown away by the fact that you were interrogated by the policy in freaking China?!
lol.
Well, I’m BLOWN AWAY.
🙂
And so thankful you are continuing on in the walk of faith. We all know, THAT aint easy. You’re story is SO encouraging to me.
Nancy, my goodness what you went through!! Thank the Lord He took care of you! You were bold and the Lord gave you that faith.
My parents went through a similar situation in China, but with different results. My dad knew how to take care of the group he was in and made sure no one was put in danger. My dad went with a supposedly medical group along with a Jewish man and others. When they got there medical supplies were to come in and the head of the group was suppose to be there. He was not and the boxes of medical supplies were filled with rags and old clothes. My dad was put under house arrest and interrogated. My dad (being older and very wise)calmly talked with the Chinese officials about the situation and from this day on these officials have been good friends with my parents.
There is a way to properly go into these countries and be a witness of Christ- the way TM handle this situation with young people in their care was irresponsible and careless.
Truth68 says: “There is a way to properly go into these countries and be a witness of Christ- the way TM handle this situation with young people in their care was irresponsible and careless.”
There might be a way to do this sort of thing with trained, adult missionaries who are fully capable of giving informed consent and genuinely understand the risks they are taking. A group like Teen Mania has no business allowing the young people in their care to engage in such dangerous activities. It’s not just that they mishandled the situation; they should not be doing things like this in the first place.
Teen Mania put your life in danger because you were illegally smuggling Bibles in the country. Something much worse could’ve happened to you. I’m so glad you’re alive.
“Nancy” Thank you for giving us the TL/PD perspective. I always knew that the leaders in country were ‘wing it’ for the most part – but I had no idea how little support they were getting from TM HQ. Its Ghastly to think that you were in charge of so meny kids and with so few resources.
“The entire time I was in leadership I felt a sense that I was failing. I feel sorry for the ways the teams I led did not get all they needed at times, because I had no more left to give myself.” <– IMO this is the core issue with TM. It is structured in such a way that if you are not ‘giving till it hurts’ your not giving enough, when the more healthy way is to help yourself first, so you may then help others.
You didn’t fail – TM did. They should have supported you better, supported their missionaries better. Teen Mania should have been blown away by all that you did – They should have gotten on their knees and thanked you for returning all those kids home, and un-harmed.
I know its late, and I’m not Teen Mania – but thank you for everything you do all those years ago, enduring illness, prisions, war zones. It was all so much more then should have ever been asked of you – Thank you.
I have never commented here, but will read occasionally. However, in this case, I cannot keep silent. I was on your team in Hong Kong and you were an amazing leader. You and your co-leader never let on the severity of our situation in China (even though it was rather obvious, given the blatant bugging of our hotel rooms and “undercover” cops walking around). What I remember is how you led us in praise and worship that evening and the confidence you exuded in our getting our passports back. Thank you for your love and care that month.
-S
S…
My goodness…. I cannot tell you how much your comment means to me. Wow.
I’m very touched. Thank you.
Wow Nancy…I’m sitting here stunned after reading your story…I agree with all the above comments, especially with Shiloh’s. You truly fought the good fight. I’m also STUNNED about TMs lack of support and/or debriefing you from this traumatic situation/experience. Wow…just wow.
It really burns me up especially at the way TM brags about safety and experienced/trained leaders heading up these trips to the hundreds of parents blindly trusting them with their children/young adults. Of course, I’m sure they wil respond to this posting by telling how much “things have changed”…
I also wanted to encourage you, Nancy. Thanks for sharing your story. I pray that it helps you heal from these experiences and alerts any parents to the dangers really going on, and, thankfully, God’s protection to the young people who have gone on these trips.
Nancy…thank you.
Every voice here is valid and every story important. However I have long wished that more people from my “era” would participate here, because it does illustrate that these problems didn’t originate with Dave Hasz taking over the internship program, but they have existed for a long time. Concerns about TM have always been spoken in hushed tones and in private. Even to this day, many people who are mutual friends of ours with whom I’ve had pointed conversations about TM and how dangerous it’s become are afraid to speak out publicly. For this, I applaud you.
I know this is difficult, when you have old friends still involved with or still in awe of TM. I’m thankful for your voice being added here. For your willingness to speak.
wow, what an amazing story! I always enjoyed my mission trips with TM (prior to my internship) but looking back, similar sitations did occur on my trips, even the ones that stayed in the states. Lack of nutrition, leadership, etc. I applaud you for your strength of character and soundness of mind…you helped so many innocent teenagers overseas and I can’t even imagine being in that position. Thank you for telling your story and helping others in the future steer clear of such a wreckless ministry.
I went with TM to China a couple of years ago.. We were still brining bibles to mainland china.. there are worse stories then theses from GE aluumni.
@dan –
“However I have long wished that more people from my “era” would participate here, because it does illustrate that these problems didn’t originate with Dave Hasz taking over the internship program, but they have existed for a long time.”
Your comment reminded me of a story DH told us in HS about one of his trips with TM that he took ’92 or earlier (it might have been Panama since most of his missions stories were about Panama at the time). There was a leader on that trip who was being especially harsh on the TM missionaries. I don’t remember all his offenses but it centered around the leader not planning well, intentionally making circumstances more difficult, and chewing people out. In telling the story it was obvious that DH was bothered by the behavior and didn’t think it represented good leadership. When DH talked to this leader about the leader’s behavior, the leader basically said he was preparing the TM missionaries to face adversity in life. I don’t know if DH reported any of his concerns to TM, but at the time DH definitely didn’t agree with the idea of inventing adversity to “help” people. I guess we all change…
At Anon 6:47:
They are still doing this?!
Maybe I’m just naive.
Is that ok? And are they preparing the missionaries for that? I dunno, it seems like sending pampered American kids into another country doing illegal work is just stupid.
Maybe they actually prepare them for this. doubtful. but I cant imagine how a trip like that would actually look!
Nancy, I’ve been thinking about this since yesterday. I’m really glad you shared!!!! My only experience with “missions” was at Teen Mania and they were just so unrealistic about what it is, I nearly gave up. (like- thisclose) for some reason, hearing your story, actually has given me some hope that this thing is real. 🙂
I don’t understand the need to smuggle bibles into china. they aren’t illegal. maybe just certain translations?
(thanks, wanderer, for sharing your story, btw. i know my comment has little to do with what you experienced, but i want you to know that i’m sorry for the horrible situation you were placed in. like other commentors, i very much admire the way you handled the situations you unwittingly encountered)
Dan,
Thank you for your comment, I appreciate the support. I agree there are just way way way too many stories of things that should never happen.
Shiloh…. you’re a huge encouragement to me too, thank you again for your what you’ve said to me here.
Thank you guys so much for your affirmation and encouragement. It does seem to me that overall at TM there isn’t a sense that “real” danger or “real” bad things happen, and maybe that is the cause for the cavalier attitude about so many of the stories we’ve heard about on this blog. A true sense of the value of people is lacking I think.
“I saw a machine that had no time to listen to its people.”
Nancy, Thank you. For a long time I’ve wanted to speak out about my TL experiences. When they started to interview me to become a PD, I knew it was time to get out.
I can relate to your experiences very well and very deeply.
Oh, Nancy I am so sorry you had that experience! 🙁 I just want to say that not all TL’s/PD’s have that kind of experience. I have been leading trips with Global Expeditions as a TL for a while now and while, yes, there is a lot of pressure on you – simply because you ARE responsible for someone else’s baby on the mission field – I knew the responsibility I was taking when I agreed to lead.
I guess I have seen the other amazing side of GE. This past summer leading a trip I was able to see my young people really touched by the love of God and effectively ministering in country. It reminded me of being 17 on my first GE trip. 🙂
I have made some amazing memories while on GE trips.
I have also served long term overseas with another non-profit ministry and had a very different experience. I will not name the ministry but there I truly felt I was not listened to and felt frustrated. Comparing my experience with GE and my long term experience in HA with the experience I had with the other non profit is like comparing night and day. I have always felt my PD’s were there for me and were very helpful to me as a TL.
Dear Anonymous 12:09,
I am curious: in what way do you think your comment is helpful? From the perspective of an outside observer—and a mental health professional—it appears to me that people like yourself who act as apologists for Teen Mania have the effect of invalidating other people’s emotions or experiences. Is that your intention? And what’s with the anonymity? If you are proud of Teen Mania, why are you so afraid to associate your name with it?
I suspect you think you are a nice person, but from my viewpoint you come across as a troll.
Nancy, you are from my era with Teen Mania, and I was also in HK in 95. My mission trips were in 93, 94, 95 and 97. I am somewhat familiar with your China story already, although I think I remember that my trip ended before you guys went on your blitz trip. I deeply appreciate you sharing and I support your story and your conclusions. I currently have no plans to share my story here but I have a great deal of respect for everyone who has shared their experiences here on RA’s site. God bless you.
@Doug – My anonymity is for the sake of protecting the identity of the ‘other non profit’ I mentioned. A lot of alumni would recognize my name when I said it (at least ones from my era) and many might know which ministry that was…I haven’t publicly spoken about my experience – except to say that I served there – with the other ministry and don’t wish to paint them in a negative light. Much of it might have been cultural differences and I don’t chose to hold things against them. I was merely comparing. I knew of no other way to safeguard their reputation in the event that someone who did know me happened on my post. I assure you that I did not mean to be creepy and I in no way intended on ‘invading’ someone else’s emotions or experiences. I simply felt it only fair to have the other side of the story told. Is it healthy, in your opinion as a mental health professional, for only one side of a story to be told? Are the only experiences that are valid ones that disagree with Teen Mania and/or are negative? I was polite, I agreed with Nancy that her experience was absolutely horrible and I truly meant that. I in no way disregarded her experience. I merely told my own. Are you disregarding mine? As for the charge of acting as an ‘apologist’ for Teen Mania I found that an interesting way to put it. I have only heard of ‘apologetics’ in the context of God and religion. I in no way see Teen Mania as a God. I am perfectly aware of all of their flaws. If by acting as apologist you meant that I defend Teen Mania, I guess you are perhaps in part right. My intention was simply to let anyone who might come across this blog know that there is another side to the story, not to invalidate yours. Is that unfair?
If you say that posting a different viewpoint on this blog is considered ‘invading’ someone’s experiences, then call me guilty. I do believe, however, that it is psychologically healthy to have a worldview that can stand up to someone else telling their story. I in no way am threatened my Nancy’s story. Why are people threatened by mine?
Oh, and as far as being proud to associate my name with Teen Mania, I am. 🙂 The only reason for not posting on this specific post is what I said above.
I’d consider that Teen Mania’s side of the story is EXTREMELY well told. ATF’s. GE callers. the Teen Mania websites. All the many blogs and websites that sing the praises of Teen Mania and talk about all the wonderful stories that come out of it.
Are you also going to the pro-Teen Mania websites and telling Nancy’s side of the story or is “The other side of the story” needing to be told only applicable if it’s in defense of Teen Mania?
Anon…
I am sure you are sincere in your experiences with TM and the Lord is using you in spite of what TM represents. But to tell you the truth, TM is flawed and not at all what true Christianity represents. Christianity is a relationship with Jesus Christ as our Savior- not an organization in the process of producing model Christians. If you look at all the relationships that Jesus had with those around Him they were imperfect sinners in need of a Savior- like all of us. They came with baggage and they came with different personalities and Jesus knew how to deal with them on an individual level. TM deals with people like on a industry production line- move them through and spit them out. Some came out with their experiences ok (I guess….I would say though humility was not learned and pride, an arrogant spirit and works based view of salvation is what was achieved in most cases), but many others came out with a distorted view of Christianity, abused, and distrust in Christianity. Many are having to weed through the pain of what they went through. Seeing ALL the posts of those who have experienced the abuse of TM (even though I have not been through that) I will side with in grace and sympathy, not disregard what they have been through. They deserve the ear to be heard.
Of course they deserve an ear to be heard! I 100 percent agree. Why else do you think I, as someone who is “pro-teen mania” if you want to call it that (I think making sides is harmful to everyone) would read this blog? I’m trying to understand….in truth my experience just doesn’t match up with anything close to what I read here. I have read a lot of posts here – I just didn’t have that kind of experience.
As far as telling the RA “side” of the story on HA forums, they do a great job of that. In truth I have yet to see one alumni forum that hasn’t ended up in this debate with the RA viewpoint clearly articulated. For instance we had a fun group on Facebook called “You went to the Honor Academy if…” and it was meant to be a funny story-telling inside-joke kind of blog. Instead it ended up being debated constantly by people on both sides to the point I got fed up and stopped being a part of the forum because neither “side” was acting respectfully.
I also can’t tell a side of the story I have never experienced.
As far as blogs that are pro-Teen Mania (such as FlourishingAlumni.com)most of those have sprung up because of this blog in an effort to balance this point of view. I am active on those as well.
I do appreciate that at least people are giving me the benefit of the doubt when it comes to my motives which are honestly not hostile.
@Anon,
I think you under appreciate the courage it takes for someone to finally “come out” and tell their story. Most of these folks spend years questioning themselves and doubting their own perceptions. If RA had not started this forum, many of them would still be discounting their own experience.
I agree entirely with Esther that TM’s side of the story is already well told. The side of the innocent victims is what is struggling to find the light of day. Everybody who has been to the HA has already heard DOZENS of testimonies of how wonderful TM and the HA is. One more adds absolutely nothing to the discussion.
Do you have a right to your own experience? Of course, but do not tell your story here if it is likely to inhibit a healing process for people who are hurting. I’ll concede that you were trying to be sensitive in how you expressed yourself, but I doubt you fully understand the impact of what you were saying.
I in no way under appreciate the courage it takes to come forward. I am a survivor of an abusive home myself and have a very close friend who has gone through healing for PTSD from childhood abuse. I know all about doubting your own perceptions and experiences and how difficult it can be to finally stand up for yourself. I wish I could tell my friend’s whole story but it is not mine to tell. Because of the fact her grandfather was a well known minister she kept silent for years. I watched her struggle. I saw it. I was her roommate. I in no way would diminish it. I still don’t understand why my story is ‘likely to inhibit healing.’ Part of the healing I have experienced from my own abusive past happened when I saw the good that was able to come out of that experience. A redemptive quality. I know some people who have been through events as traumatic as the Columbine shooting. It is the same for them. Who is to say that part of the healing process isn’t recognizing that not everything that comes out of TM is horrible.
If this forum is not open to other viewpoints, at it says that they are, then I won’t post here any more.
Anon – Thank you for telling your story. I’m sorry if it sounds like we are attacking you. However, to help you understand why someone may respond to you negatively, please note that this is the way I (personally) interpreted part your post…
“…while, yes, there is a lot of pressure on you – simply because you ARE responsible for someone else’s baby on the mission field – I knew the responsibility I was taking when I agreed to lead.”
It seems like you are telling Nancy, after she has taken the time to open up about her experiences, that she should have known what she was getting into and therefor cannot complain. When you say, “I knew the responsibility…” you seem to also be asking “why didnt you?”. It comes off as a challenge to her story, not just your own positive experience.
@Anon,
It is not up to me to tell you not to post on this forum—those decisions belong to RA. I think RA wants to see a robust discussion, and so she allows for different points of view to be expressed.
I guess I would just say to you and to other pro-TM posters, everybody already knows that good things sometimes happen at TM. Good things happen sometimes in almost every place. Even profoundly dysfunctional families have occasional moments of humor or affection—so what? That does not make it alright, or make the hurt go away.
Anon – I agree with Layne’s comments above re: the original comment.
I do thank you for helping us understand your thought process a little better. Honestly, I can’t imagine how hearing good things about TM is healing to anyone here. It most certainly is not healing to me or to anyone I personally know. Here is an imperfect analogy to your comments here (and those like them).
Its like an altar boy from the local Catholic church who happened to be lucky enough to not get molested by the priest going around telling the victims how much good the priest does in the community. You can bet after the sex scandals broke – there were plenty of people to defend those rapist priests – and I’m sure some of those priests did some good deeds – but its not a justification, its not “balance” to point out that child molesters “aren’t all bad.” See what I’m saying? You are the altar boy – you didn’t get raped. I’m glad for you. But the rest of us did and hearing how great the priest treated you does NOTHING to put balm on our wounds.
Good analogy, RA.
I agree Doug with the analogy RA made.
I think we see a lot going on in the church
today that is being brushed over with “Well, my pastor (etc..)
is doing such good things, feeding the poor and so on”, but behind the
scenes he is abusing the sheep.
TM and being a team leader was so horrible yet you kept coming back…. This sounds like the common case of “have one or two bad experiences and conveniently forget the hundreds of good ones.”
You don’t keep coming back to a corrupt environment unless forced, which is far from the case here. So either Teen Mania forced her to return every year or she is not being entirely honest.
After pondering a bit, I would like to say that, IMHO, there is a distinction to be made between different threads. If a pro-TM person wants to debate on a thread like the previous one entitled “More Hypocrisy from Teen Mania,” that seems like fair game. But I think it is unkind to come on a thread where somebody is opening up some difficult and personal material and say things to negate their experience. The only legitimate thing for the TM supporters to say on threads like this one is something like, “Gosh, how awful for you. I am so sorry that happened to you.” Otherwise, you are just compounding the damage.
I do acknowledge that our particular anon on this thread was probably not intentionally trying to be a troll—unlike some other anons who have posted from time to time. She just seems to be lacking a bit in emotional intelligence.
Anon 10:47 (I don’t know if you are the same as the previous anon),
This is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. How is this in any way healing? You have no idea what Wanderer has forgotten or what she remembers. People return to corrupt environments all the time—ever hear of Congress? And it is WAY over the line to accuse her of being less than honest. Doesn’t the Bible say something about not making false accusations? (Hint: It’s one of the Big Ten).
i just want to say that while i understand why anonymous’s comment might be controversial, i–NO FAN of TM–didn’t read it as combative or minimizing of nancy’s experience. i did think that doug was really quick to jump down her throat, and it made me a bit sad because his voice is so respected in this community. i really value and appreciate that this is a safe place for people to come forward, but if there is even a hint or perception by a reader that someone is saying something un-gentle, there is no gentleness available for that speaker. which seems…backwards?
i haven’t been around these parts in a long time because it really does feel like there is no room for moderation anymore. (moderation as in…a moderate or temperate voice.)
anyway, nancy, i was 15 and went to viet nam. i got pulled aside by guards at ho chi minh’s mausoleum…the whole group went ahead of me, and i was desperately afraid i’d be BV-ed for being alone! i cannot even IMAGINE what the stress would be of compounding that situation by about 100 bajillion…i am very, very sorry your experiences were so stressful, and i thank you for sharing!
gc1998- I agree with your statement about needing to have a place for a moderate voice.
I went to Hong Kong/China in 2000/2001 and we were still smuggling Bibles. I know a few people were pulled aside and maybe questioned but not for that long! I am sure it was very traumatic. Just being
in mainland China was quite traumatic for me the first time, not even just because of the smuggling.
I thought my trips were amazing at the time, but looking back there was a lot that was not handled well. What I see is that TM capitalized on the youth and nievete of the missionaries, MAs, and even TLs (and probably PD’s too, though I had less exposure to those interworkings) that are going on these trips and the trust parents have in a ministry organization. I don’t know if my parents knew or not about the smuggling before hand, or what they would have done if they had. They did let me return a second time so I guess they were cool with it? They were very trusting of me though and I am sure in my own nievete I assured them it was fine.
I’ve read a lot of the stories here and am fascinated by the way people’s lives have been negatively impacted by their experiences with TM. I’ve thought about submitting my story as well, because looking back I do see how much I was affected by what happened to me. After some therapy a couple years ago I found this blog and it has made me greatful that things were not worse (that I didn’t go to HA). Thank you to Nancy for sharing and to everyone else who has shared their stories as well.
Nancy,
I must have been on your team in the Hong Kong/ China trip. I was one of those arrested for passing out tracts. I remember them confiscating our passports. It was really scary.
We had also smuggled in Bibles. The whole experience was surreal.
Chrissy
Hi Nancy, I think I was on your team for the Hong Kong / China trip… What year did you go? I vividly remember smuggling Bibles into China and not being able to untie them from my body once we had crossed over into China… I was in that bathroom panicking!! :). I found this blog while searching out Teen Mania for my son who wants to go on a mission trip this year… I, as a teenager, not a leader, had a really good experience going on summer mission trips with Teen Mania
I was on the Hong Kong team in 96… Anyone else? Does anyone remember the girl who was whisked away in the middle of the night? We were later told she was possessed by a demon??? We never saw or heard from her again. I have always wondered what really happened. Anyone?