Alumnus Brad Kelly recently sent me his thoughts on the blog, Ron’s email, and Teen Mania and the Honor Academy in general.
Its a bit long, but definitely worth a read. Click here to read and then come back and give us your comments.
On another note, I’m always open to guest posts. If you feel like you have some perspective on an issue we haven’t touched on yet, or a story of recovery, I would love to post it here.
23 comments:
Recovering Alumnisays:April 2, 2010 at 12:01 AMReply
I’d like to thank Brad for his input. I agree with much of what he says and I especially loved the bits about grace and faith/trust, so for the sake of space, I’ll limit my comments to where we might disagree a bit. I trust that we can all dialogue about this civilly.
1)On an “us vs. them” mentality – I hear what Brad is saying here and honestly, I don’t know whether my response was the best way to handle it. I did feel that Ron was lying about me and misrepresenting my character – and perhaps I took this too personally. But, the truth is that his email did make me angry not only because of the personal attack, but because he minimized the pain that every other recovering alumni has experienced. In typical Teen Mania fashion, he brushed aside anyone who disagrees with him. So, maybe I could have addressed this with more emotional detachment…if my response was wrong, I can only ask that you try to see things from my perspective. I hear new stories EVERY DAY of spiritual and emotional abuses – both major and minor. I started this blog with no particular anger towards TM leadership, but hearing story after devastating story has changed my view of them. Whether that’s right or wrong, I’ll leave for the reader to decide. I’m just being absolutely honest with my feelings.
2) “The Club RA “forum,” while I believe it to be noble, is NOT like a support group in many ways.”
It’s true that due to the fact that we live all over the world, we can’t meet as a ‘true’ support group. There are definitely benefits to meeting in person. Most of us don’t really have that option, so we are doing the next best thing. And I agree that in support groups, we definitely have to own our problems. In my experience with recovery groups, before we can own our problems, we have to first start walking through the grieving process with all the ugly emotions that entails. We also have to know what to own and what not to own – which is where the critiques of TM teachings come into play. Don’t be too quick to dismiss what is going on as here…In the new forum, I’ve set aside a place to serve as an internet support group. I plan to post on the 12 steps there and invite people to own their issues. It’s all about timing, though. Most alumni already feel so beaten up and have already spent so much time trying to figure out how they’ve sinned and how they can fix it – I don’t think we need more of that quite yet. Does that make sense?
Unfortunately, recovery is a LONG process. This blog has been around less than a year and at least half of the readers have probably only been reading about a month or so. I have no desire to see this place become a “bitch fest” but I’m also sensitive to the fact that we can’t rush people through the healing process. Most people have had these things pent up in their hearts and minds for YEARS. It’s no surprise that once they are free to talk about them, the floodgates open.
3) I’m interested to hear feedback from everyone on “starting a dialogue with Teen Mania.” From my vantage point, that seems like a waste of time…but I could be wrong. The Board of Directors should be making a decision about next steps soon, so perhaps we should wait to see how that pans out…
Philip Esays:April 2, 2010 at 12:52 AMReply
I pretty much agree with what Brad said.
I think that this site is actually more on the “us vs. them” than TM is. There is even something to be noted about the us vs. them even in this comment.
I don’t see how phrases such as “in typical Teen Mania fashion” can be seen in a way that isn’t contributing to an us vs. them mentality as well.
I’m sure that Ron, Dave, and Heath feel that you are lying and misrepresenting their character as well. As such, both sides think the other is unapproachable.
I’m not saying shut down the site, I’m not saying that TM is to be excused from all accountability. I’m just saying that we need to examine ourselves and make certain that we’re not creating new problems instead of dealing with the ones that already exist.
Dansays:April 2, 2010 at 1:14 AMReply
Philip…Brad…I’m with you. Believe that. Brad, I think your letter was thoughtful, mature, and wise. I agree that if we’re not careful, this community can and will implode into everything it fights so hard not to be.
I don’t necessarily think it’s realistic that Teen Mania will ever be involved in the healing process for alumni.
A couple of purposes that I can see Club RA filling:
1. This blog, in some ways, serves the same role that all free press serves. TM has nobody but what the conservative right would view as extreme liberals criticizing them publicly. Now, people from the inside are confronting these issues head on. Personally, I think it’s good for TM and other ministries to take notice. I really wish they would participate here in the conversation. That would be the first step toward your plan, I think.
2. The forum isn’t necessarily just a recovery group. It’s a place for people who have shared an important, meaningful experience to come together and discuss things that they’ve always wanted to discuss, but can’t. Free speech has been squelched on the “official” alumni forums.
Anyway…I think that you’re right. This group has grown in numbers and voracity, and more and more I see rhetoric here that looks an awful lot like “us vs. them”. It’s to be expected, a little. Many people here are hurt and angry. They have every right to feel that way and this is a natural expression of that. But if we’re not careful…if we don’t police ourselves…eventually, this community will lose its power because it will be reduced to a stagnating pond.
Which would be a tragedy, because I love it so much. 😉
Moriahsays:April 2, 2010 at 6:43 AMReply
Great to see a letter written with so much thought and care and detail!
Although I am not a believer, and so don’t share the spiritual perspective of the letter, it is wonderful to read through the depth of thought happening both in the letter and the ensuing responses. Good work!
Shannon Kishsays:April 2, 2010 at 8:56 AMReply
Dan- I would agree with you.
I think that the discussions happening on the forums are healthy and ones that a lot of alumni have been afraid to dialog about. With the strict rules at the HA alumni forums it is difficult, if not impossible, to have the discussions that we are having here.
I would prefer to learn and discuss hot topics such as sex, homosexuality, substance use, etc in a forum where I know there are similar minded people.
Shilohsays:April 2, 2010 at 9:54 AMReply
WOW! Amazing!
“Our evolved, Modern, “Evangelical” Christianity is not primarily founded on the Gospel that was, but on a new, Westernized, Capitalistic, John Maxwell-ized version of the Bible that we’ve been taught to follow more rigorously than the Spirit of God as revealed in Scripture and our hearts.”
YES!
And I’ll post more when I’m actually done reading. Or maybe I wont. But this sentence sums it all up for me that’s for sure. So far I agree.
Brad Kellysays:April 2, 2010 at 10:18 AMReply
“I would prefer to learn and discuss hot topics such as sex, homosexuality, substance use, etc in a forum where I know there are similar minded people.”
Shannon: not sure what you mean exactly by “similar minded people,” but perhaps, since subjects still deal with Christianity and the HA, a new subdivision/label called “Controversial Topics” (or something?) could be created for this specific purpose.
Obviously, I don’t think you want to discuss them to disrespect people of any belief or lifestyle; however, I for one would be bummed out if they couldn’t be addressed within the “Christian” conversation. Fact of the matter is, they should be.
Up to RA and the group consensus, I guess.
Layne Tannersays:April 2, 2010 at 10:27 AMReply
Brad Kelly, I wish I had gotten to know you. We ran in the same frienship circles at TM but never got around to actually talking to each other. Strange how that goes.
TM has always grown too fast to keep up with itself.
Watching changes from the perspective of an SA (2002-ish), having stuck around for a bit longer than the usual intern, I started to realize that one of the more difficult structural challenges TM has is in the consant loss and replenishment of it’s volunteer staff. Bizarre things can happen when you lose 400 employees in one day and gain 400 new employees the next (with the added factor of said 400 newbs having spent almost no time at all on campus and having very little idea as the what goes on there). One day, something that is brand spanking new to TM (whether it be a building or a rule or a staff member or a club or any number of things that grow and fade within TM), is given a very short trail period (about a month) before 400 new interns show up and accept the new as the always-been-there and the “new thing” is there for good, whether it should be or not.
I’m not sure if that made a lot of sense, it’s a difficult phenomenon to describe, but I believe it’s a huge part of the “growing too fast” problem.
I hope this comment isn’t too off topic. I started to write something else and then this popped up in my head. Ok. Done. Ya’ll have a lovely Easter. The wildflowers are blooming here in Texas. It’s all bright blue and pink and white covering the fields. The hares are going crazy eating up everything. I should have made that into a haiku.
Candorsays:April 2, 2010 at 11:38 AMReply
I agree with Shiloh. “Our evolved, Modern, “Evangelical” Christianity is not primarily founded on the Gospel that was, but on a new, Westernized, Capitalistic, John Maxwell-ized version of the Bible that we’ve been taught to follow more rigorously than the Spirit of God as revealed in Scripture and our hearts.” That’s exactly what I feel like it has become which is why I haven’t attended church for 9 years (since getting out of the HA).
I agree with a lot of what Brad said and there are some things I definitely don’t agree with (including his affinity for Bill O’Reilly). Overall, I’m glad he posted this because it showed me a different perspective of how “Christians” think.
Now that I know people exist besides RA who are “Christians” that aren’t fake, it actually makes me more intrigued in getting to know the “real Jesus.” So thank you both.
Brad Kellysays:April 2, 2010 at 12:23 PMReply
*I’ve edited my mentioning of Bill O’Reilly to clarify. And to further clarify, I don’t regularly watch or support any show or side. Peace. =)
Shilohsays:April 2, 2010 at 12:48 PMReply
So. I finished reading the post. 🙂
One thing I would disagree on is:
A) While I don’t believe that the letter intended to make this an “us” vs. “them” thing, I feel that further responses by RA as well as Ron’s lack of direct response to RA have kind of left it at that so far. The RA site will only serve to involuntarily perpetuate an “us” vs. “them” mentality if discussions between Teen Mania and “Club RA” (don’t know what to call it yet) are not pursued.
#1- I don’t see the sight stirring an “us vs. them” mentality. Really at all (Though I gotta say, I am LOVIN your perspective!). For me at least, it helped me stop the internal battle of “Teen Mania did THIS. but… at the same time I did THAT…. but I only did THAT because T.M. did THIS….” and so on.
It changed to—- “ooooooooooohhhhhh…. I did that BECAUSE T.M. did this. It really wasn’t my fault and now I can move on.”
I was MUCH MORE bitter BEFORE I found this sight. Now… like I’ve posted many times before, I actually REALLY love Ron and Dave and all other staff members. This blog really has helped me to see that Christianity… is… about the body. Not about do’s and don’ts. And more reverse the us. vs. them mentality.
The thing I have a question on is:
B)part 2 –
“But if no one is known because people keep posting anonymously (including “RA”), if it’s all merely venting of experiences with other people who’ve had the same (without addressing “big daddy” TM), and (dare I say) if it all remains an internet activity, it will definitely not be the support group that it could be.
And it would be tragic if no learning, growth, or healing came about for either party as a result of what’s happened.”
I’ve posted under my real name and code name. I don’t really care if people know who I am. It just seems because no one actually knows each other, it doesn’t matter if you know my name or not.
But does addressing big daddy really come into play? It doesn’t look like they’re wanting to change. I’m not EVEN focusing on changing teen mania. Is that ok? lol
Shilohsays:April 2, 2010 at 12:50 PMReply
Awe, I was so disappointed when I found out two days ago… I actually DON’T like Bill O’Reilly. :)~
Shannon Kishsays:April 2, 2010 at 9:07 PMReply
Brad,
There is a “controversial” section in the recoveringalumni.com forums. That is what I am talking about. We are free to speak on those things among us. At the HAalumni forums, those “controversial” topics are forbidden by the lengthy set of rules.
gc1998says:April 2, 2010 at 9:31 PMReply
WHOAH. stupid thing…RA, pls delete 2 of those. 😀
Brad Kellysays:April 3, 2010 at 11:33 AMReply
All of the cool people on this forum make me want to improve my overall social life somehow. =)
Thanks for all the support, guys. I’ve got a follow up post to this (not as long – you can all say “Thank God” now), but I’m not sure when or how I’ll post it. I had RA take care of this one because she/he’s the smart one.
I guess just keep checking, and hopefully, it’ll make it up here somehow/someday. =)
Thanks again, everyone, and I appreciate and believe in you all. *And I think God really does too. =)
Brad
Shilohsays:April 3, 2010 at 12:00 PMReply
Brad I LOVED your post! Really, it had great insight. I love Jesus and His followers. The truth of His Word (I.E. Holy Spirit spoken Word) encourages me deeply.
Blessings on YOU!
Anonymoussays:April 3, 2010 at 1:05 PMReply
Brad, thank you for sharing! I would like to share more in the future under my real name, but since this is my first post, I’m going to remain anonymous. I hope this site becomes a place to allow interns (current and past) to realize that our God is much bigger than Teen Mania!
When I came home 2 months into my 2nd year at TM (due to stress related illnesses… go figure), I had so much love and support from my friends and family, that it pains me to think about those that didn’t have that to go home to. My heart is full of compassion for those broken interns that were not enveloped in the love they desperately needed from those closest to them. I only hope that they found the greatest comfort from our ever present and compassionate Creator. I know what it feels like to leave TM feeling like a failure. Not once did I receive a phone call, e-mail, or letter from anyone working with Teen Mania. This was a great source of bitterness for me for some time, but now I simply see it as a blessing from God. I believe that He wanted me out of that place and away from their influence on my life.
I believe that in Teen Mania’s attempt to become better than the world’s influence on young people, they have become masters at manipulating teens into submitting to the TM idea of godliness.
I have worked with youth, both in the public school setting and at my church, since 2004. I have come to realize that each person is an individual with specific needs and struggles. They might have similar struggles, but you must minister to and disciple each person according to their unique needs. Teen Mania operates under the assumption that each teen can be “fixed” by following specific rules. They disregard the idea that the heart is “desperately wicked and deceitful… who can know it?”. Each person must examine their own heart and view themselves rightly before the Almighty God. We can fool ourselves, but we cannot fool the Lord. He chose to save us in our sinfulness, so why do we think that we need to “pretend” to be perfect after salvation? Or that if we follow certain rules, we can earn our salvation? Galatians 3:3 is one of my favorite verses on this topic. (“Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?”) I still struggle with pride and wanting people to think I have everything together, but God is so faithful to show me that I’m not perfect and that I really am a “work in progress”.
I have written my story twice to send to the board at TM, but I can’t ever seem to convey all that has happened because of/in spite of TM. I will keep trying. It may end up being more like a novel, though.
Sorry this is so long.
Brad Kellysays:April 3, 2010 at 7:37 PMReply
This coming from mr. wordy himself (who is also learning that I don’t have to say “sorry” for it and the rest of my life), I think it’s important for you to share what you have in your heart – especially, if it can possibly encourage people to search for the real Christ and/or challenge the current patterns of Christianity.
We’re all works in progress… what’s so bad about admitting that? And when we fail or feel like failures, why have we been taught (directly or indirectly) that we need to feel badly and just “try harder” next time?
Keep trusting in Mercy and then gradually learn to walk and run in Freedom. Christ says we must be like children to enter the Kingdom of Heaven: children don’t beat themselves up while learning to walk or develop coordination.
On the contrary, they cry to Mama and Papa all the time. We can too, and God will help us and restore us with His Word (with Christ Himself)… that He Loves us and places great Value on us.
Just want to encourage you to walk in the confidence of the Christ over your WHOLE life.
Brad
Mike Doughneysays:April 4, 2010 at 12:01 AMReply
I read Brad’s post; not exactly my cup of tea, but this phrase jumped out for me also:
“a new, Westernized, Capitalistic, John Maxwell-ized version of the Bible”
Between the marketing hype, the “you are what you buy” emphasis on merchandise, the exploitation of labor, and the presence of some interesting characters on the TMM board (a P&G marketing expert and a “motivational speaker” event mogul for starters) I’m surprised this doesn’t get more attention and criticism.
Brad Kellysays:April 4, 2010 at 8:35 AMReply
What kind of tea do you prefer and why?
I remember when I heard that they would be bringing in professional marketing experts (and some of the horrible products that these same experts had brought success). I thought to myself, “Isn’t this type of marketing used when one HAS to sell something? And if what Christianity has is so amazing, why do we need to market it? Don’t we just need to share it as we live? And furthermore, isn’t Salvation itself ‘free’?”
I think great products generally help to sell themselves. So if we have to spend obscene marketing dollars to make a sale, maybe the product we have isn’t that great? *I would argue that we don’t deliver the product we’re advertising because very few of us have it ourselves.
Not that my opinion is necessary, but I think you bring up a valid point(s).
Brad
Anonymoussays:April 4, 2010 at 1:59 PMReply
RA-
Just curious….but did teen mania make you change the name of your website address?
If so, why?
Anonymoussays:April 4, 2010 at 2:31 PMReply
Brad Kelley, interesting point about having to market Christianity. While it is true that people/culture/media/christians have twisted the love of God into something unpure or untrue, “marketing” God isn’t the proper response. Our response should be to right wrong and fight “fire” with “love”. Loving and caring for people in God’s name will push back the plans of the Devil. By this definition it seems clear that “Battle Cry” is counter to the message of God as it devides and sturs passion to FIGHT when our response should be compassion.
Recovering Alumnisays:April 5, 2010 at 6:27 PMReply
Anon – No, I just did it so I would have more control. 🙂
