I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised anymore at Teen Mania’s evil deeds, and yet I find myself surprised almost weekly with new stories and revelations. This clip from ATF TV in 1999 is astonishing not only for its strange “Josiah Project” sketch, as discussed yesterday, but also because of Ron’s blatantly aggressive gay bashing.
“Hi, I’m Ron Luce and today on Acquire The Fire we are going to talk about what does it mean to be a real man, to be a real man of God not some sissy little limp-wristed thing bouncing around acting like some pansy little Christian. Its about being a man of God like Jesus. Stay tuned if you want to be a real man.”
You really have to watch the video to get the full effects, the voice intonation, the facial expressions, the snarling….Is this really how a minister of the reconciliation of Christ should act and talk??
@1:20 – A real man of God is not a limp wristed, light in his loafers kind of a guy, but somebody who knows what it means to live for God.
Ok, wow, I don’t even know how to start with how appalling this is.
First, let me say to every gay person who has ever been affected by “Christian” teaching like this – I AM SO SORRY. This is appalling on every level and I believe it has absolutely nothing to do with the Jesus who is revealed in Scripture and who is alive today. I’m ashamed that anyone remotely connected to Jesus would ever talk or behave this way towards the gay community – people who are loved beyond measure by God.
Second, Ron is doing here what TM often does – equating behavior with spirituality.
If you do this (good thing), then you are an on-fire, sold out, radical worldchanger.
But if you do this (bad thing), then you are a namby-pamby, compromising, wishy washy, sorry excuse for a Christian.
THIS IS NOT THE GOSPEL.
I wish I could scream this from the rooftops – This is NOT the Gospel!!! This is NOT the message of Jesus.
The message of Jesus is that you are completely right with God, right now because of Jesus’ death and resurrection. It does not depend on you. If you are trusting in Jesus to make you right with God, there is NOTHING you can do to make God mad at you! There is nothing you can do to get kicked out of His family!!!! There is no caste system in God’s family; no division between “worldchangers” and “namby-pamby.”
Are good deeds important? Yes, but they are an outflow of what God does in our heart as he wins us to His love. They are NOT to prove how spiritual we are – to ourselves, to God, or others.
That method is BACKWARDS. And its exactly what Jesus came to save us from!!!
Either Jesus sacrifice is all sufficient for us, or its not. Either we are men and women of God because He redeemed us with His blood or we are men and women of God because of our efforts.
This issue is so important that Paul says that if we try to become men and women of God by our own efforts at spirituality, we will actually be alienated from Christ! Woah!
He goes on to say that following the law in an attempt to please God is worthless and pointless and, “The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.”
If we don’t get this right, we won’t get anything right.
So, is Jesus all sufficient, or not? Teen Mania has given their position. What’s yours?
(Note: This is not the post for a debate on the topic of homosexuality itself. Off- topic comments will be deleted. Head to the forums if you really need to express yourself.)
35 comments:
he’s not even talking about being gay, he’s talking about being a sold out christian.
He maybe *speaking* about being a sold out christian, but he has made his position clear. Ron is anti gay. I’ve never been to a church and told that I was being ‘light in the loafers or limp wristed about jesus’.
Not only that, by his actions he is saying to thousands of teenagers that it is ok to make fun gay people, call them name, and in general be a bully in the name of god. THAT’S NOT COOL.
Anon – “light in the loafers” and “limp-wristed” are VERY well known slang terms that mean gay
Thank you RA for posting this but I think Anon & phoenix are missing the point.
The point of this post is to show that Ron Luce is preaching a false gospel!
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it! 2Cor 11:3-4
If Luce is preaching a different gospel, and another Jesus, what does that make him?
WHAT! I’d never even heard the expression light in the loafers and after googling it – it is extremely offensive to have come from Ron Luce’s mouth. Ugh. I can’t believe I gave them three years of my life. I really can’t believe it.
I think I’ve just become a bit confused… when I read,
“You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
It sounds as though Paul is saying that grace can be lost. He also says,
“The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.”
That is f***ing confusing. Is there grace in all situations or not?
1. Light in the loafers
To be homosexual
“Jimmy is a little light in the loafers if you know what I mean.”
2. Light In The Loafers
Refers to the way some effeminate men walk.
As Maurice sashayed across the room, Celeste noticed he was light in the loafers.
sashay prissy sachet effeminate walk
3. Light in the Loafers
Implies homosexuality and gayness.
Why it means this:
1. If you are light in the loafers, you are said to be missing the vital male reproductive organs and therefore you are light in your loafers (shoes).
2. A myth says that homosexuals tend to where lighter colored loafers instead of darker colored loafers.
Winston, you’re looking pretty light in the loafers today…I would even say that you’re nearly levitating.
I bet Ron was just misguided about what the term ‘light in your loafers’ actually means. I bet it was just a normal term everyone used and he just said it to be ‘cool with the kids.’
Not.
@Layne
I’d like to answer Layne’s confusion and get back to the real point of this which is not making fun of homosexuals but the false works based gospel being preached by Luce and Teen Mania.
In Galatians 5:4 Paul does tell us that we lose something when we attempt to be justified by our own efforts.
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
The words “of no effect” in the Greek means to render idle or inoperable, to have no influence or power. So he is saying grace becomes ineffective in us, it stops working
What is grace? – Grace is not simply God’s willingness to overlook our sin. Grace is the power of God at work in our hearts to purify, sanctify and conform us to the image of Christ. This is known as sanctification and it is a life long process. It is real power at work in us all the time as long as we are trusting in the death burial and resurrection of Christ.
Sanctification is a part of our salvation and we are sanctified in the same way we were justified when we initially came to Christ – that is by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ. But when we begin to look to our own efforts for sanctification, when we start to think we can become “better Christians” by trying harder, we forfeit the power of grace working in us. That is why so many of you began to feel alienated from God during HA. Teen Mania taught you to look to your own efforts.
Unfortunately the solution they offer only makes the problem worse. Their solution was always try harder. You are not praying enough, or you’re not spending enough time with God, or you’re not spending enough time in His word or something like that. Whatever you’re doing it’s not enough!
In other words they never pointed you to Gods grace. They always pointed you back to self effort. Therefore you remained on the treadmill of self effort, trying harder to be a better Christian. It is the hamster wheel of works based sanctification and the harder you run the more alienated you feel.
It is only when we learn to rest in the finished work of Christ that we will have peace. Hebrews 4:11 tells us that we must labor to enter into that rest. That sounds like a contradiction but it is only a labor because it crucifies the flesh which loves a works based effort.
I hope that helps some
Thanks, Steve. Excellent thoughts.
Anon @ 1:13
You had the first part right “I bet Ron was just misguided”
Mouse
Even ignoring “light in the loafers,” he said “pansy.” Come on– everybody knows what that means. There’s simply no way he could not be aware of it. That is so obviously an anti-gay slur from Ron Luce that it doesn’t need (or deserve) any more comment.
Otherwise, I’m with Steve. The derogatory rhetoric is bad enough, but saying the Gospel is a matter of your performance? No thank you; I know what the Bible says happens to false prophets if you don’t mind!
In the context of Galatians 5:4, the phrase “You have fallen away from grace” does not mean “You have lost your standing with God” but “You have forgotten the fact of grace.” (It’s muddled in our thinking since from this verse in the KJV, “fallen from grace” has become an English idiom that doesn’t mean what Paul meant in Greek.) It’s about losing focus on God’s grace, not losing salvation.
Compare Romans 11:6– “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
I wrote a rather apropos article on the themes of legalism in Galatians here, for those interested.
I wonder if Ron ever struggles with his sexual orientation? How many times have we seen Christian leaders or politicians who take a very aggressive stance on Homosexual behavior, turn out to be gay themselves?
An apt message for purple day. 🙂
Also, they filmed this during my year, 1999. I think the Josiah thing was filmed before that, but the episode itself was filmed in 1999.
I know everyone is trying to pull this back out of the gay-bashing issue, but honestly, I do see that as the key issue in this video. The Josiah Project thing was supposed to be funny, so I can’t really get on board with dissecting it as some sort of doctrinal statement that we should punch people in the face when they ask for a light.
However, I can very much get behind the blatant gay-bashing Ron’s engaging in here. And not only gay-bashing. Not trying to steal your thunder, gay friends, but what about generally effeminate straight men, too? How many of them have gone through life suffering the same slurs as a gay person? Not worse, but certainly not better either. Regardless of sexual orientation, making fun of someone because of his or her demeanor is wrong. The point is, this is an example of Ron pushing his cookie-cutter version of what a real man/woman/christian/human should look like, and anyone who doesn’t fit that mold is devalued as a result.
It’s BS. Despite my philosophical differences with TM, I expected better from them. If I were gay, I’d be incredibly hurt by Ron’s choice of words here. Since I’m not gay, I’ll settle for being incredibly angry and offended on behalf of my gay friends.
LOL…okay, by “I can very much get behind the blatant gay-bashing Ron’s engaging in here.” I did NOT mean that I agree with his position. Quite the opposite. 😉 I MEANT that I can get behind being angry about that.
I think Ron’s hair in this video is not manly enough. Little too long and styled for a “Godly Man”…..wonder if TM has any teachings on manly vs. not so manly hairstyles?
Anon- It is definitely NOT the way in which a Statesman (according to DH) would wear his hair!
I just caught a glimpse of my brother — our very own Phil — at 45 seconds in, in the back corner.
Way to be a real man, Phil!!!
Guess you didn’t escape the audience police that day in time to avoid being forced into attending?
Can I just say that I LAUGHED MY ASS OFF at the CD scene?
This false manliness crap is the last thing I ever want to have as a wife. Been there, done that. There is a lot of this kind of teaching circulating these days, it’s pretty popular (along with the submissive women teachings) and it’s extremely destructive to true loving marriages. Only very insecure men teach this stuff, they are sad little cowards, trying to make themselves look good by exploiting others.
LOL that was so cheesy. They made him look like a 50’s dude
Wow. I read the comments first and then watched the video. Apparently there’s a lot of reading between the lines happening here. I didn’t hear one word of “gay bashing” or trying to “earn your santification”. I do agree the video is a little cheesy but that’s the worst I would say about it. You’re all making way too much out of this.
Anon, RA and I both worked in Exec and saw Ron on a daily basis for a while (though during different years) bookending this TV show. His mindset at the time and to the present is such to find those that are gay disgusting and truly people to be ridiculed.
I don’t think there is ANY context in which “limp-wristed” does not refer to gay people.
Anonymous– Watch the video again, only this time, imagine yourself in the position of a gay person or someone who’s struggling with their sexual identity. Now listen to Ron Luce calling you a “namby-pamby, light-in-their-loafers, limp-wristed pansy….” You’d feel a bit bashed, yes? That’s not reading between the lines; that’s the lines. It’s not even in the subtext; it’s in the text.
If you can’t see the glaringly obvious, that reveals more about you than it does about Ron Luce.
“It’s not even in the subtext; it’s in the text.”
Eric, I love it.
It because of teaching like these at teen mania that I no longer believe in god.
Wow! The writers of that sketch went out of their way to really put down Pearl Jam, Green Day and Counting Crows.
In the words of Linkara, from his review of Batman: Fortunate Sons…
I apologize to all of these musicians for being mentioned in this tripe.
Well Adam and Eve not Adam and STEVE!!
Can you please show me where I can find this video?
When you start a post off with “I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised anymore at Teen Mania’s evil deeds” you realize it ruins all your credibility right? You’re basically saying: WARNING I’m overly bias on the subject so if you don’t already hate HA you mine as well ignore the next couple paragraphs.
You call them underhanded and continue using moral bankrupt maneuvers to support your overly weak arguments.
Anonymous – What’s so morally bankrupt about a writer declaring their opinion right up front? I thought honesty was a virtue.
I think you mistake “biased” for “inaccurate.” Having a bias doesn’t destroy credibility, or nobody would ever be credible. Of course the author thinks TM has done some “evil deeds.” But that’s because there’s documented evidence of their evil deeds, including this very post– what can one call Ron Luce’s words insulting and belittling people in the name of God, if not evil?
How about if nothing else, the guys socks his friend in the face at the end? Good grief! The actor had a complete conversion from one verse? Then he threw out his awful Pearl Jam (lol) and punched his friend!
This Luce is so off base and annoying. He is a “real man.” What the heck does that even mean? It is not just anti-gay, it’s anti-man, anti-Jesus’ example of laying down your life for others and His humility and care to save every lost sheep.
It is amazing this whole sham of ATF, TM, and HA haven’t been shut down. I suppose we haven’t been praying enough.
Thanks to this blog. I will never take my youth group or children to any of these events.