Ok, so you’ve seen my original email. Now, here is the response Ron Luce sent out today, in case you haven’t seen it. In my next post, I will respond to his claims:
Dear Honor Academy Alumni,
I wanted to write a note to you in reference to an email that many of you received recently. Unbeknown to us, an alumni from many years ago, managed somehow to get the list of all of your email addresses and emailed you without our permission. We’re very sorry for the inconvenience.
We’re not sure how he/she got the list, but we feel that this was definitely a breech of privacy and for that, we are very sorry.
As to the content of his/her letter, we just want each of you to know that we have tried repeatedly to dialog with him/her to help him/her work through the struggles and challenges that he/she’s facing. We all know that the internship year is a very intense challenge. Some people respond differently than others. The program is designed for Honor Academy participants to grow spiritually and emotionally. We know, however, that there are some who have experienced the Honor Academy challenges personally in ways that they have not been able to fully understand or overcome.
We have repeatedly tried to reach out to this person, but he/she does not seem to really want to dialog in a personal manner to resolve conflict as outlined in Matt 18, or to make the Honor Academy better. He/she did, as he/she mentioned, send a letter to our Board of Directors, who are reviewing the matter as they review many matters proceeding in this ministry on an ongoing basis.
Please note that many of the challenges from this person’s blog and letter are challenges that we’ve long since improved upon since he/she was an intern, as Dave Hasz and staff constantly are receiving feedback from interns and alumni; so that each year is progressively better and more improved. From the Life Transforming Events, to the ministry opportunities, to the deep impact upon each intern’s life as they move forward in advancing the Kingdom.
Please join me in praying for the individual who is still recovering from his/her time at the Honor Academy and those that he/she has gathered around her that God would really perform a healing in their hearts and lives. If any of you still have concerns or questions about your time in the internship please always feel free to contact us to resolve the concerns and reach a place of wholeness. You can reach David Hasz at david.hasz@teenmania.org, and he is ready and willing to listen to your concerns and take action on them.
Please know that I honor you and the sacrifice you made while being an intern; laying down your life, and pouring out your heart to reach a generation. We at Teen Mania are continuing to build on that foundation so that we can reach more people then ever – both young people here and people all around the world with the life-changing power of Jesus Christ.
Soon you will see a response from our Board to the concerns raised by this recovering alumni posted on our website, and we’ll be happy to notify you when that’s complete.
Consumed by the Call,
Ron Luce
27 comments:
Nunquam Honorablussays:March 16, 2010 at 9:07 PMReply
Oh my gracious I’m going to have so much fun unpacking this one. Where to start??
“Unbeknown to us, an alumni from many years ago, managed somehow to get the list of all of your email addresses and emailed you without our permission. We’re very sorry for the inconvenience.
We’re not sure how he/she got the list, but we feel that this was definitely a breech of privacy and for that, we are very sorry.”
Bull, RA got it off the Alumni website. And how did YOU get all these alumni’s emails Ron, hmmmmmmm?? A lot of people who DIDN’T get the original email got this one. Gotta cover all your bases I guess!
“We know, however, that there are some who have experienced the Honor Academy challenges personally in ways that they have not been able to fully understand or overcome.”
That’s the prettiest description of spiritual abuse I’ve ever seen.
“Please note that many of the challenges from this person’s blog and letter are challenges that we’ve long since improved upon since he/she was an intern, as Dave Hasz and staff constantly are receiving feedback from interns and alumni; so that each year is progressively better and more improved.”
What a load. There are stories on here from 2009; good job at masking the truth.
“Please join me in praying for the individual who is still recovering from his/her time at the Honor Academy and those that he/she has gathered around her that God would really perform a healing in their hearts and lives.”
This is so condescending I can’t even believe it.
“… and he is ready and willing to listen to your concerns and take action on them.”
Read: call together a family meeting and mock the ideas presented to him personally.
“Please know that I honor you and the sacrifice you made while being an intern; laying down your life, and pouring out your heart to reach a generation. We at Teen Mania are continuing to build on that foundation so that we can reach more people then ever – both young people here and people all around the world with the life-changing power of Jesus Christ.”
Way to throw that in there and sweeten the pot. Seriously, there is so much manipulation in this paragraph. “Oh but we approve of YOU because you don’t hate us! <333”
Nice try, Ron, but no dice.
Moriahsays:March 16, 2010 at 9:54 PMReply
What bothers me about this is he attempts to make RA sound like an isolated case, a freak accidental intern who couldn’t handle it, when in reality, there are at least 100 strong who had a similar experience. News Flash Teen Mania! RA is not the only one.
Lizsays:March 16, 2010 at 10:43 PMReply
Wow, Ron. Way to avoid admitting ANY responsibility. Because there’s no way that anything could be Teen Mania’s fault.
And as far as working together to reconcile or whatever, I call that a load of crap. RA, even if they had legitimately reached out to you (which I seriously doubt is true), you have no reason to resolve things with them. A person has no obligation to reconcile with or work things through with their abuser, and that’s what TM has been for a lot of people. An abuser.
Plus, didn’t you already address the Matthew 18 verses and why they don’t apply to this situation?
Way to go, RA. I’ll say it again: you’re doing a good thing here. I can’t wait to read your response to Ron.
Anonymoussays:March 16, 2010 at 11:11 PMReply
Wow. I’ve been quietly following this blog for a few months and now I’m completely floored by this, for a couple of reasons.
If Teen Mania is so great, then why would the leader of the organization confirm that afterward you’d have to “recover” from it? Yes, Ron Luce himself twice used the word “recovering” to describe you, RA.
The other thing is that with a lot of abusive organizations, generally other secondary people in the leadership are assigned tasks of sending messages like this, so the rank-and-file can walk around insisting that if the man at the top only knew what was going on things would be different.
Ron just gave up any excuse that anyone could have ever made for him by sending this message – or having it sent with his name on it – which includes a whole set of the usual condescending, responsibility-avoiding clichés used by the leaders of abusive groups throughout history.
I also would second what Liz just wrote: “A person has no obligation to reconcile with or work things through with their abuser.” I’ve thought it unlikely that interacting with the TM board would be fruitful, since it’s very likely they share these attitudes that Ron has clearly shown today. Whatever they do or don’t do in the next few days and weeks will prove that one way or the other.
Anonymoussays:March 17, 2010 at 12:13 AMReply
‘Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain’. Sounds like David and Ron finally got outed. I’d lay odds that there are more people following actively following RA’s helpful insights then follow DH or RL on social media.
Beth McCombersays:March 17, 2010 at 12:25 AMReply
I was so incensed by Ron’s letter that I emailed them back with my own thoughts. Before this letter I went back and forth on whether
I wished to be anonymous, but after reading this letter I had to reply to Ron & Dave as a person. My name means nothing, it carries no weight or importance. In fact my emailing using my personal email address and name will likely be dismissed because when I was in the Internship I was a broken woman and my personality was to fear men, esp. men in leadership, and to challenge men in leadership as a defense mechanism. However, it was through counseling after the Internship that I was able to address WHY I behaved in such broken and prickilY ways that made me a very disliked person at the Internship. Having said all that here is my reply,
“Dear Ron, I am heartily disappointed in this email! How I perceived this letter is your trying to not so subtly imply that the author of that blog is the one with a “problem” and that they are unwilling or able to biblically address their “issues” to their own healing and improvement of the ministry. I am disappointed by this finger pointing instead of self-reflection or inquiry as to whether what the author and others who have testified have to say, has any truth to it. Indeed I would have expected you and the leadership – NOT just the board – to investigate the reports/testimonies of those who wrote on the blog – and to begin to devise/implement plans of change so that the ministry would avoid even a hint or appearance of impropriety or sin.
While this Intern may have attended the Honor Academy years ago they are still struggling with the aftermath. In addition there are many postings by individuals who were graduates more recently that the blog author and others have testified to similar if not same issues and other issues all their own. If the Honor Academy were spotless without sin or without need to change why would so many old and new Alumni be hurting? I have spoken to graduates after my class who have shared how the ministry shamefully dishonored written contracts or handled themselves in ways that left the Intern MORE broken then when the arrived.
I do not wish harm or the dismantling of TM Ministry. I believe the ministry had and has the potential to accomplish the great commission and the improvement of American teenager’s lives and relationship with God. However, it has been my opinion in observing TM these many years since, that it has moved away from its original mission statement and focus and thus gotten lost on the road of good intentions and, or the “evolution” of change due to growth.
My hope in the Lord is that restoration and revival take place in the ministry and that through the Lord’s doing the many weeds and tares be uproot and burned allowing the “wheat” to grow healthy.
—
Micheal McCombersays:March 17, 2010 at 1:40 AMReply
I’m going to have to agree the rest of you.
Hello group my name is Micheal McComber, and yes I’m a broken and hurt intern alumnus. Who for the last 13 years felt anything that went wrong in my life was because of the my sin, because I was not lifting myself up by the bootstrap or pressing in hard enough in to him. I felt I was worthless in the internship. I felt that no matter what I did, I was never in the elite inter grouping. (What this is was a group of interns that could do no wrong in the eyes of leadership) I felt Dave rode me harder then any intern that year. All I wanted was for him to say job well done. I’m proud of you. See in my thinking I felt if he said he was proud of me God would be proud of me. (I know how weird that sounds to most but most will understand). I pushed myself, I beat my body and made it my slave, and I worked till I could not work any longer. Then I worked more. I tried following the formula, harder pushing in; more pulling yourself up by the bootstraps will make you this elite intern/Christian. But no matter what I did, leadership just say I was a bad seed. A weak intern. (I carried this feeling/shame/guilt for years) Then I found this site. I found I was not the only one with hurts. It was like smelling fresh air again. What!!!!!!, Interns from TM that got hurt? Noooooooooo….. But its true!
Today at work, I received the email from Ron. I was so angry. How dare he discount our experiences, our hurts and our brokenness? How dare you think its just one lonely intern alumnus that is rogue? If we reach out and try to fulfill Matt:18 but you never answer us, or have time for our phone calls, or emails. What then can we do? It like out of site out of mind
(I’m waiting and it’s like been 13 years since I left. I still carry the pain, I still have panic attacks, and I still have a hard time trusting leadership)
Ron, Dave, you have my email address, my phone number and my home address. For one time why not try using one of those and reach out to me. I have been waiting and all I get is an email of how wicked this blog is. I respectfully disagree with you.
Thank you RA for this blog. Thank you to the others that shared and that will continue to share. Knowing that I was not the only one the dealt and still deals with some of the same issues. I have to say it’s freeing.
If anyone wants to talk to me, comment, confront me, or try to hold me accountable. My email address is mm@vegas.com. Feel free I would love to hear from you.
kymberlydawnsays:March 17, 2010 at 5:32 AMReply
I’m an academic of gender studies, so what I noticed were all the he/she, him/her use until:
“Please join me in praying for the individual who is still recovering from his/her time at the Honor Academy and those that he/she has gathered around HER [my emphasis] that God would really perform a healing in THEIR [my emph] hearts and lives.”
This makes me wonder… do RL and DH know if RA is female or male?
The meticulous use of both pronouns suggests they do not know the identity and therefore cannot assume anything. However, the slip-up of the pronoun use of ‘her’ means either 1) they DO know RA personally and have been in contact OR 2) they just assume the person is female.
Based on the next pronoun ‘their’ I assume the answer is #2 that they do not know the identity and are struggling to define the person.
Having been a 01/02 intern and 4 month GI, I know very well the patriarchal order of TM. I retain vivid memories of teaching interns how to be a proper man or woman, all supposedly based on biblical teaching (still haven’t found the verse commanding a woman to give it up to her man 5x/wk).
So to me, this email not only reads condescendingly (in agreement with Nunquam Honorablus) it is also incredibly paternalistic. Father RL is exercising his disciplinarian characteristics. The hierarchy of TM dictates leadership as parents and interns as children. Furthermore, the slip-up of ‘her’ is consistent with woman being correlated to child and not able of rational behavior. It is assumed no man would create such a blog for it is perceived as both a back-stabbing attack on TM (dishonorable behavior) as well as show of [feminine] weakness by encouraging people to share feelings/struggles/pain indiscriminately with others.
Moriahsays:March 17, 2010 at 7:28 AMReply
As a successful artist and an intelligent highly educated adult woman, I was both fascinated and horrified by the tone of this letter. It not only sets up an “us vs. them” mentality, but it is unbelievably ambiguous and patronizing, treating RA and “those he/she has gathered around her” as ignorant children unable to process the events of the honor academy. It remains vague throughout the letter, not truly addressing any concerns, but quietly re-setting TM as the ultimate authority in this matter.
To those who are interested, I recommend doing some research on the common traits of narcissistic personalities. I see a lot of these traits in the leadership at Teen Mania. Unfortunately, true dialogue with narcissists is almost impossible, as they will protect themselves and their vision at any cost, especially when it is challenged. They are also highly intelligent, charming, and manipulative. They can say something without really saying anything, but still make you feel like you are in the wrong. Often they are leaders and visionaries. They surround themselves only with people who support their vision. All others are discarded and blamed. Sound familiar?
In light of these observations, I am of the opinion that true dialogue with TM will probably not happen anytime soon. It is no surprise that Ron’s letter is generating a strong emotional response. Indeed, the letter is infuriating and ignorant on many levels. However, I think it is important to put on a psychological lens when reading the letter for the second or third time, and in this way, begin to explore the possibility that Ron Luce and Dave Hasz are simply incapable of true intellectual dialogue.
With this in mind, it is even more vital that we engage in each others lives, offering support, encouragement and meaningful conversation.
We are not just a little group of misfits gathered around RA in a flurry of confusion and bitterness. We are film-makers, musicians, artists, photographers, teachers, preachers, students, academics, believers, non-believers, actors, writers — all engaged in the recovery of our hearts and minds.
Love,
Moriah
truthinlovesuckssometimessays:March 17, 2010 at 9:06 AMReply
so they sent an email to ALL alumni regarding the blog?
so now wayyyy more almuni will know about it who didn’t?
I just have to laugh about that one.
Nunquam Honorablussays:March 17, 2010 at 9:12 AMReply
You know what’s REALLY funny? How alumni are flocking at his feet and saying, “well, if you’re being persecuted to this degree then you must be doing something right!”.
RA’s facing some pretty intense persecution as well so I guess by their line of logic, RA’s in the right too?
Man, that sucks that the persecuted aren’t pleasing God unless you like them. What a drag.
Anonymoussays:March 17, 2010 at 9:22 AMReply
Nunquam where are you getting this info at? sounds made up as I haven’t seen that anywhere…..just sayin
Nunquam Honorablussays:March 17, 2010 at 9:28 AMReply
On his facebook status updates. He’s like “I’m sorry if I ever hurt you at TM”, basically, and interns/alumni FLOCKED to him and said “NO! You could NEVER offend anyone! They’re dumb; you’re doing a GREAT THING!”.
Anonymoussays:March 17, 2010 at 9:59 AMReply
@ Anon- ‘pay no attention to the man behind the curtain’ EXACTLY what is going on here!
@KimberlyDawn— I remember that thing about sex! They told us that we needed to have sex at least 6 days a week my year or our marriage would fall apart. Wow. I’m so blown away that the same teaching has been happening for 10 years. (and actually… 20)
And I LOVE your assessment. I was pretty ticked off about the single ‘her’ in the email. It sounded like they were trying to convinced everyone R.A. is a girl. (whether true or not, that doesn’t actually matter.) I think that was an in your face manipulation tactic. Right there in front of all who read it.
So other people are with me that women are totally mistreated at the H.A.? I’ve been trying to figure out how to put what happened to me – in regards to how they treated me as a female- in words.
Nunquam Honorablussays:March 17, 2010 at 10:08 AMReply
What? I don’t remember that sex-advice at all from my year… granted, I could have simply been not paying attention. That’s horrible; they’re trying to even control our married lives!? Dumb.
Though now the thought of a “sex sabbath” is hilarious to me.
kymberlydawnsays:March 17, 2010 at 10:53 AMReply
@Anon #2 – would be really interested in your account of sexism at TM (and any others) – email: kymberlytravels [at] gmail [dot] com
Anonymoussays:March 17, 2010 at 11:03 AMReply
nunquam- guess I must have missed that status update….I don’t normally read their facebook pages though.
It does seem to me that in a lot of ways some of the people on this site may never be happy. In some ways it seems that Dave, Ron or anyone else at the ministry can’t win for losing. I know in my life when someone wants to see change in me, having a little encouragement goes a long way.
I appreciate RA and the thoughts but I also have to say that I do give them credit for doing something and not just ignoring everything completely. It may not be the change everyone on here wants or in their timing but at least theres movement.
I would rather be on my face praying for them, the people still there that may be blinded and for the hearts of the board to see real change. Only God can change them, idle words will do nothing so this will be my last post and visit to this site.
Blessings to you all as you move forward in the recovery process, I pray that God will reveal himself to you in mighty ways as He has done for me.
Shilohsays:March 17, 2010 at 12:06 PMReply
@last Anon – I actually don’t care what Ron or Dave have to say. lol. No really I don’t. (That’s not in a bitter tone, but referring to your comment that it seems Ron and Dave can’t win for losing. There is nothing to really be ‘won.’)
@ Everyone – Just wanted to encourage some who might be thinking about this. I deleted everyone from T.M. (that I didn’t actually know. You know the ones that make you have 700 friends?) Ron and Dave were the first to go. Than all the other leadership I didn’t know, director’s, R.D.’s, than my C.A. (who I did NOT get along with.) than other interns and G.I.’s. I got it down to 50 T.M. friends (How it was STILL 50 after all that I dont know, but I just couldn’t delete certain people I really did like.)
Threw out my honor ring, and deleted a bunch of phone numbers of people I was never going to call.
Than I deleted all the emails I was never going to read.
The funny thing is, when you think about what will happen if you actually do all that you think, “Does that mean I’m mad at T.M? Will that be a worse idea? shouldn’t I be able to handle looking at the honor ring? shouldn’t I just be able to ‘get over’ all this.”
Truth is, once you throw it out, you realize, none of it was actually important in the first place.
Seriously, try deleting Ron off your facebook… It’s REALLY a good feeling. 😉
Shilohsays:March 17, 2010 at 12:10 PMReply
*I deleted them off my facebook… 😉
gc1998says:March 17, 2010 at 11:14 PMReply
haha, um…they were never ON my fb!
Shilohsays:March 19, 2010 at 10:14 AMReply
i was re-reading this email and noticed this –
He/she did, as he/she mentioned, send a letter to our Board of Directors, who are reviewing the matter as they review many matters proceeding in this ministry on an ongoing basis.
It kinda looks like, he’s making light of the situation- “Don’t worry about it. It’s not THAT big of a deal.”
Curious Georgesays:March 19, 2010 at 7:54 PMReply
@ Nunquam
“sex sabbath.” I can’t stop giggling to myself about that and I don’t know why.
Over the past 4 months I keep going back and forth on this blog. At times I feel there was something genuinely wrong with my experience at the HA. At other times I believe I’m just using my time at the HA as a scapegoat to justify my current spiritual situation and my complete lack of desire for nearly everything “Christian.” After looking over Ron’s, Dave’s and Heath’s emails and messages, I’m re-convinced that there is a lot of twisted doctrine at the HA. RA, thanks for posting those comments and emails and thanks Ron, Dave and Heath for the reconfirmation. Cheers.
Recovering Alumnisays:March 19, 2010 at 9:50 PMReply
Hey Curious – One thing to think about – it doesn’t have to be an either/or situation. Sometimes its both – the HA gave us problems plus we bring our own baggage to it as well. I don’t say that to condemn you but just to encourage you to put the matter before God and let Him sort it out for you.
Josinaisays:July 22, 2011 at 9:39 PMReply
Hello, Im actually thinking of interning at the HA for this coming January. I stumbled upon this blog when searching HA on google. I would like to know if yall have any recomendations for me.. or positive/negative feedback about HA. It would be much appreciated.
please email me your thoughts jlugo93@gmail.com
Sahasrasays:July 23, 2011 at 11:06 AMReply
Joinai,
Without knowing anything about your life experience, my reccomendation is, go to college. The way you phrase “interning at the HA” indicates to me that they have convinced you that this is something more legit than it turns out to be. This “internship” will not advance you academically or professionally. Nobody will give a hoot when this goes on your resume. That’s it. Good luck deciding.
Shannon Kishsays:July 23, 2011 at 1:05 PMReply
Josinai,
I would recommend reading this website. It will give you a great deal of information about the HA and this information can be used to help you make your decision. There is so much information here that it would be too difficult to repeat it all.
wanderersays:January 15, 2012 at 12:19 PMReply
Moriah,
I am VERY impressed by your response. Insightful, helpful, and TRUE. Thank you.
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