I write because its 2013, and I’m still pretty torn up.
I went on a mission trip with GE in 2011.
But who knew one month of my life could hurt me so much?!
Right when I think I’m over it, I can see and feel everything all over again.
Its like time picks at scabs and makes them bleed again.
I used to be SO ON FIRE for the message of Christ. I wanted nothing more than to
be His hands and feet. I want to BE like Jesus before talking about Him.
I was so ready to just spread His LOVE. (The real kind of Love, not
Teen Mania Love.) I still am, in a way…
But I am scared now.
I am scared because now, whenever I find mission organizations, I freeze
up. I become suspicious. And I automatically shy away the moment I hear
ANYTHING concerning “checklists.” SO MANY ORGANIZATIONS require
“training” in prayer and healing. Whether or not they are up to the
standards of Teen Mania is beyond me, but I see TM EVERYWHERE. I
see traces of it in almost every ministry and the moment I see any
similarity, I freak out. I get angry, I cry, I become anxious and can’t
feel any peace. There are no words to describe how fearful TM made me.
For instance: The other day, I thought I saw my Project Director. My heart sped up and I almost had a panic attack. I am not kidding you. My breath quickened and I got dizzy. I HID.
And I KNEW it wasn’t him! Yet him LOOKING like him was enough! He looked like the man who had no grace for me whatsoever. He looked like the man mocked Hindus to their faces. He looked like the man who, for one month, almost made me believe every single sexist lie TM teaches.
Oh those lies!
I came home, and for months all I could do was sit in a hot shower and
BEG God to turn me into a boy. I had begun to believe that there was no
way I could be this “perfect, Proverbs 31 woman.” I had begun to believe
that I had to be silent, and beautiful, and submissive, and that there
was no way I could POSSIBLY be a pastor because I was born without skin
hanging between my legs.
I swore to myself that I would rather cut off my breasts than be the image TM taught.
And that scares me.
Scarier still….
Even when TM found out I was hurt, you know what happened?
They called me.
And they said, “Sorry for your experience.”
That’s it.
Then you know what happened?
They DEFENDED all the crap that happened on my trip.
And here I am, scared out of mind, terrified of this person over the PHONE, sobbing my eyes out.
I told someone who I thought was a “friend.”
And she said I was deceived and speaking the lies of Satan.
Both people offered to pray it out of me.
And all I did was CRY.
And cry.
And ask myself what I did wrong.
I had NIGHTMARES for MONTHS.
And you know what?
I was a Jerk when I came back. I was legalistic beyond belief. My family was concerned. And I beat myself up over everything.
I still beat myself up.
Because somewhere, deep down, I still believe that everything was my fault.
That maybe I didn’t “have enough faith.”
That maybe I really was “deceived.”
How can one month screw you over so badly?
How can it keep you from going to church?!
How can it strip you of all your conviction for ministry?!
How can it take your fire away?!
How can it keep you from trusting people!
And the truth is, a year and a half later, I am still scared to speak out.
I am still terrified.
And I am still hurt.
(Note from RA: This individual asked me to remove the identifying details and specifics of her story because she does not want to be contacted by TM again. Suffice it to say that her experience is a common one on both GE mission trips and the HA internship: abusive physical conditions, inadequate rest and medical care, oppressive legalism and the lesson that everything bad that ever happens to you is your fault.)
24 COMMENTSON “SABRINA’S STORY”
Anonymous | January 22, 2013 at 6:30 am | Replyoh wow! I’m reminded how I felt the exact same way after I left Teen Mania.
The two things that I would like to share is that this feeling does go away. Especially the more open and honest you are with yourself about how you feel. It really sucks, I know I felt like this for a few years too. And one reason you feel that way (I’m assuming because it’s why I felt that way) is because you were completely screwed over and lied to by people who call themselves Christians. Who are supposed to people you can trust. And it’s a really hard lesson to learn, but you can’t trust people based on what they say about themselves. There are some real creepers at Teen Mania who are aloud to continue on there because they say and act like an all-star christian on the surface. It sucks and it’s wrong. And I’m really sorry you were subject to them.
Also – you can tell it’s a scam if they make you pay 1000’s of dollars and all they teach you to do is pray or read the bible. A lot of places give zero training and they charge an arm and a leg to anyone who will give it to them.
So I promise you it will get better. It sucks right now but it will, and you will be a much stronger person for it, just keep pushing yourself to be an amazing person.The other thing is I would recommend is studying up on ways that churches manipulate their followers. I do believe in God but there are some churches out there that are out for financial gain not God’s approval. You were very much taken advantage of and not just because you were lied to. Teen Mania uses sleep depravation and poor food to catch people off guard and get them to do what they want. Those methods along with other things.Again, I’m so sorry you went through all of that. I’m really happy you shared your story. Thank you. 🙂
admin | January 22, 2013 at 12:17 pm | ReplySabrina, I’m so glad you chose to speak out but I am so sorry for your pain. I think you have touched upon many commonly shared fears and emotions within the community.It’s true that things do indeed get better, but I know it’s still scary right now. Let me tell you, take your time to follow your heart and heal. Personally, even once I’d decided that I wanted to get back into a church, it took me well over a year to actually find the courage to do so. I actually wrote to many different churches in my area and inquired whether or not they would support Teen Mania Ministries, and briefly explained why I was asking.Amazingly (to me) none of the churches supported or said they would support TM. Some clearly stated they were opposed to the methods and results. And one church in particular sent me a link to a sermon they did called Scandalous Love.It took me a year to even listen to that sermon. That’s how afraid I was to be back in a church. But eventually, I found myself ready to listen to it and the message really changed my outlook on faith. It was a significant milestone in my healing. After that, I started investigating the church and skulking out the web site for new messages, trying to feel them out if this was a good fit for me. And then I started attending a few weeks ago, and am enormously happy with the decision.My point is that TM does a good job at causing us to forget that faith is a very personal thing. If we don’t live and follow it as such, it becomes a heavy burden that shackles us to the ground. Healthy faith makes you free. So I really encourage you to simply ask questions and do research–I believe that you will be able to find some really incredible ministries out there that focus solely on God’s Love and extending that love throughout the world in a tangible and healthy way. Who knows, maybe you’ll go down a path of creating the position you seek.I hope you stay connected to the community here. We care about you and personally I look forward to seeing you on your path to recovery.
Jen | May 19, 2016 at 4:29 pm | ReplyA few notes from someone who went on a GE trip literally half my life time ago. First (and, coincidentally,last, though I had a great trip) trip overseas, first mission trip. Working now as a nurse in mental health and I wanted to comment on first the amount of trauma expressed in some of the responses…this is real and dangerous especially as it is tied to your spiritual wellbeing. I would encourage anyone on this blog who has felt (or realize that they may have suffered)abuse of any kind while being part of any religious organization (not just TM). Seek out someone who can listen and help in your recovery. Much of what has been described (even the intensity of physical requirements)does sound like a cult…that can be described as ‘spiritually mature’. Dear friends, if anyone needs to chat or just needs a listening ear, this forum is a great way to do it. I would encourage people to seek out someone in their life (personal relationship, trained counselor, pastor…someone you trust)who can offer insight and feedback to facilitate healing.
- admin | January 22, 2013 at 12:24 pm | ReplyAlso this book: http://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Your-Life-Relationships/dp/0972002154it’s something my therapist had me look it and I found it really helpful, if you are looking for something to help you on your journey.
- MelCro | January 22, 2013 at 4:25 pm | ReplySabrina, Thank you for sharing your story. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I know what you’re going through and the pain you feel–we all do, and we’re here for you. **Hugs**
- Micheal M. | January 22, 2013 at 5:58 pm | ReplyThe sad part here is blaming the victim:”They DEFENDED all the crap that happened on my trip….
I told someone who I thought was a “friend.”…
And she said I was deceived and speaking the lies of Satan.”It not until people see that they can do wrong, that they do hurt people and they are abusive there is no change or healing will not/ can not begin.Thank you for being brave enough to speak up. Never silence your voice there are people that want to hear your story. 
Doug Duncan | January 22, 2013 at 9:29 pm | ReplyThanks for sharing your story, Sabrina. Cindy Kunsman over at Under Much Grace has a lot of good resources and suggestions for people who are healing from spiritual abuse. See http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/- That redheaded one | January 23, 2013 at 3:58 pm | ReplyThank you for speaking up. I am so sorry this happened and made you question what was in your heart. Like shannon I hope you find welcoming and lovr in our community.
- Anonymous | January 23, 2013 at 5:28 pm | ReplyNot that it matters but I’m just guessing here that your PD was Kenny Ortiz….yep same thing happened to me and SEVERAL people I know. That guy and several other PD’s should be expelled from TM as they are the most terrible people…..but they keep going because their friends with leadership. completely rediculous…their all part of Emmie Harper & Beth Anderson’s entourage
- Anonymous | January 24, 2013 at 6:10 pm | ReplyOh my goodness!
Anon, how did you guess it was him?!
LOL….And thanks, everyone. I have been reading your comments. They’ve helped. - Kimberly Clarke | January 28, 2013 at 4:58 am | ReplyThis is so sad but so true for a lot of ministries. I’m to the point that I’d rather not go to Church. I love the Lord and love His people but I refuse to subject myself to condemnation, legalism, and the law that has been nailed to the cross. Jesus is love and the only thing that we owe anyone is to love them. All of our sins have been forgiven and Christ has taken our reproach away. They don’t preach the gospel of Christ. I read the gospels and not one time did Jesus Condemn anyone. All He did was heal people, opened blind eyes, forgave people sentenced to die because of the law, and made people whole. Christ is a loving and awesome God but so many ministries are so focused on the outer appearance (behavior) that they neglect the heart. I pray that everyone of us who have experienced this kind of pain would find wholeness and rest in Christ because that’s why He died. He died to take our pain, shame, guilt, and sin and make us new. I wasn’t introduced to TM by a summer camp, ATF, or Missions Trip. I was already in ministry and saw Jeremy Meister preaching at a youth conference I was preaching at and was introduced to TM through the fellowship of the burning heart. He was very nice and presented TM in such a good way that I wanted to try it. I didn’t know that he was a graduate intern at the time (this was before he started Servants of the Call). I wanted to do what he was doing. I was already in a ministry doing that but I felt the call to missions pressed upon my heart and my Youth Director at the time felt that would be a good idea. So I went to the Honor Academy in January of 2001 and the rest is history. While there I was an ACA, on the Honor Council, on the Dance Team, Assistant to the Head of GE at the time, etc. I received a lot of promotions in my ministry placement but I still felt like I wasn’t good enough. I watched as others experienced harsh criticism. I did when I tried to defend the “underdog”. People felt that I was undermining “authority”. I was criticized for being strong in my faith even when I didn’t agree with what was being taught.I had even convinced myself I could stick it out to be apart of the fellowship but the year that I was there they weren’t letting January interns join. That should have been a sign but it wasn’t I went down Gideon’s road and decided to stay as a CA. As graduation approached them more I started to feel condemned and like the walls were closing in.How is it that teens who are on fire for the Lord could ever be questioning their salvation when all we do is pray, fellowship, convince people to attend ATFs and missions trips, go to church, and help people in the community. There is something very wrong with that.I even heard a joke on campus that I didn’t find funny. People would say that, “some interns who can’t cut it become agnostic or atheist”. How can that be funny? How can young people who start off loving Christ go to a place that causes them to lose their faith? There must be something wrong with the culture. People should leave a ministry internship uplifted, loved, and desiring to love others.It’s been 12 years and I am still dealing with this experience in some shape or form. I have endured churches like this and I shy away as well.I read my word, have an awesome personal relationship with Christ but I’m scared to submerge myself into ministry with a church because I’m afraid of making that commitment and being spiritually abused like at TM.
- savedbygrace | January 29, 2013 at 6:37 am | ReplyI’m so sorry… I had him as my PD too when I went on my trip with GE. That whole experience was a whole shitstorm that I won’t get into right now, only to say that I can relate somewhat to your feelings (though probably not to that extent) but I didn’t deal with them until years later, after I started reading this blog, actually. Some of it in a serious way.I wish I could tell you not to let it get to you, but that wouldn’t be okay. You were hurt, and you’re dealing and struggling with those feelings. I am so sorry about what happened, and I hope and pray that you can continue to work through those things, and speak out — and I’m sure you will. Just know that as hard as it is to swallow, especially because of all the BS that they fed you, that is in NO WAY a reflection on who YOU are! It is horrible and unfortunate that you were treated without grace, but know that it is nothing that you did. Maybe you felt overlooked, like you weren’t “good enough” for the rest of them, but the truth is that they don’t truly know how to work with people’s strengths, so you were left with so much to offer and nothing to do with it. None of that was your fault. YOU are not the one who is deceived, THEY are. I’m so proud of you for taking this huge leap of faith to break through and speak out in spite of the fear, in spite of the guilt, in spite of everything else. You have broken free from the cycle, and while it may take awhile to work through everything, often that’s all it takes for you to eventually move past it. There IS a light at the end of this tunnel, I promise 🙂
- Tommy | February 1, 2013 at 12:25 am | ReplyWhere are John and Dave at these days?
- Pete | February 1, 2013 at 12:35 am | ReplyKenny Ortiz! Does that guy still work for TM? I have seen how shaken up a person can be after experiencing that know nothing, bully on trips. The sad part is, they actually have him teach and speak to upcoming summer leaders. I would encourage anyone who has experienced problems with PD’s to this extent to email GE. You may hate GE, but that is no excuse to allow others to go through the same thing.
- jacklovesjill | February 1, 2013 at 4:24 am | ReplyKenny still works with GE and he is involved with ATF and the volunteers. Here is the new training video he hosts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNp0l5rNi7g I am a PD and I met Ortiz or should say observed Kenny during his first year during PD training and voiced my concern at the time that he would be problematic as a PD. His approach is extremely reckless in the area of emotional and spiritual leadership with teens of varying backgrounds. As a PD I know first hand that many are horrible and many are good. I too encourage that if you have a bad experience to PLEASE speak up. I apologize for the horrible experience you had and it just encourages me to try even harder to make sure those things don’t happen on any of my trips with GE or any other I may lead.
- Shiloh | February 1, 2013 at 10:23 pm | ReplyI just watched the youtube video JacklovesJill posted about Kenny Ortiz.
Weird, I’ve never met him. He must be able to act really well or something. He looks convincingly happy and awesome. I could just see a bunch of kids going on a GE trip thinking that he is awesome only to be humiliated and insulted the whole time or something.I could only watch the training video until the part where they did an offering.
What a bunch of jerks. Charging kids $55 to go to the freaking event in the first place then taking an offering like they’re a church. - Anonymous | February 7, 2013 at 3:04 am | ReplyExtend the grace you wish you would have received. Attacking people isn’t going to bring healing.
- admin | February 7, 2013 at 3:06 am | ReplyAnonymous, I agree that attacking people is not the answer. But this blog is also about honesty.
- jacklovesjill | February 7, 2013 at 11:01 pm | ReplyWhen there are toxic people causing widespread damage i.e. David Hasz, Heath Stoner and to a lesser extent Kenny Ortiz is it wrong to name that person. In my opinion it is not, ESPECIALLY when doing so can help other people from being submitted to the same abuse under their leadership. I for one think parents would LOVE to have this information before sending their student on a trip with Kenny or ANYONE else who is unbalanced and potentially damaging. If you read both sides of the story and you make the deicsion either personally or as a parent to submit yourself or child to that leadership style then you are doing so from an educated standpoint. I believe however, if we never mention a name and call them out then the Ortiz, Hasz, Stoner leaders can continue to operate in a cloud of secrecy which in the end breads more destruction. There has been much Grace extended by the people on this baord and outside of this community so much so that countless lives have been forever altered and damaged. Grace is not hiding the truth or covering up guilt but rather exposing and forgiving and seeing the guilty reformed and restored. The bad thing is Ortiz, Hasz and Stoner (and others like them) will not allow themselves to embrace both sides of Grace the side that says “I was wrong, please forgive me and allow me to change” Instead they want a perverted version of Grace that says “I’m not wrong, I still will do what I’m doing and if you are wounded by it that is your fault. Now get out of my was and stop talking about how I hurt you”.
- savedbygrace | February 9, 2013 at 3:18 am | ReplyThey say there are two kinds of evil people in the world: people who do evil things, and people who see evil things being done and don’t do anything to stop it.The recent posts dealing with Ortiz were not attacking him, but urged people to alert TM and any other helpful authorities so that no one else would have to be subjected to abuse under his leadership. What is wrong with bringing to light what are very real hurts and abuses and using that information to try to prevent such things from occurring in the future?
- Harmed by the Ortiz | February 25, 2013 at 5:47 pm | ReplyI also went on a trip with Ortiz and it changed my life in such a negative way that I will never go back with GE ever again. I constantly felt be-raided, be-littled & worthless with everything I did. There were great times where he shared his heart and emotions but they were always overcome by his times of arrogance and pride. He is someone that is not willing to receive correction from anyone that is not on “his level”. I came to him with some things I felt the Lord had showed me about his leadership and he told me I was completely wrong but “thanks”. I was told at the end of the trip that my heart was clearly not lined up with GE and that he would not recommend I do another trip with them ever again. The sad thing is, he has so many friends at TM that he actually has the ability to keep me from ever going again. The people that lead that department are just as pompous, arrogant and misguided as he is and I am thankful that my time with TM is over. I would STRONGLY encourage anyone that has dealt with Kenny Ortiz and his tyranical leadership to reach out to TM and let it be known…..he needs to be disciplined and even if they don’t take him out of power, he needs to understand that its not just a few that have been hurt by him but a great many. I don’t expect GE to ever change the way they do things but they do need to hear everytime one of their leaders represents them in a way that is not lined up with biblical standards.For those of you defending Kenny or anyone else, our hope is not to make them look bad, that is not the intention at all. Our hope is to help people understand that they if they are going to go on a trip with GE, steer clear of any trips being led by Kenny Ortiz.
- Anonymous | February 27, 2013 at 9:20 pm | ReplyDear Sabrina-One of the hardest things about being in groups like this, is that when you leave your emotions are all over the place. Speaking for myself, when I left the church I was part of, I was so confused, hurt, and angry. I didn’t know what was wrong with me.Some resources that really helped me were:The Subtle power of Spiritual Abuse (book: by Jeff VanVondern)Talking with others who went through the same experiences as I and receiving validation and comfort, as you hear others with the same experiences, you will know it was not your fault!I want to encourage you to be kind to yourself. Go for a walk and enjoy the beauty around you. Get coffee with a friend. Try to talk to others that understand.Wellspring retreat center (you can google it) may help you a lot. It is a organization set up by someone who left a cult and you can go for a few days/2 weeks. They help you process your experience (trained psychologists who specialize in this, as well as Christian counseling if you want it) and heal from it.When leaving a group like this, there are spiritual issues to work through, but also physical/psychological issues. Some of the emotions you mentioned (when seeing someone who reminded you of your group leader) remind me of Post-traumatic stress disorder. It might be helpful to read a book called “I can’t get over it.” If you contact Wellspring, they have resources to help you with this too! It might be too soon for you to do this. I know when I left, all I could do for the next few months, was cry, sleep, and try to spend time with others.It might take some time to work through everything. Be patient with yourself!Best wishes!”Been there before”
- Anonymous | March 14, 2013 at 4:16 am | ReplyI am glad this is a forum where everyone can be honest from their own perspective:) I went to Haiti with Kenny an even tho I am older than him he truly inspired me. He has such a heart for the nations. He is down to earth and very easy to talk with. Guess we all have opinions:)
- cecily ornelas | May 10, 2013 at 9:48 pm | ReplyI don’t. Think I’ve ever seen Kenny Ortiz while I was at TM.. Did he just join the ministry?
- ChadB | September 12, 2013 at 2:30 am | ReplyI think that POS Kenny Ortiz was fired from teen mania. What an a-hole
oh wow! I’m reminded how I felt the exact same way after I left Teen Mania.The two things that I would like to share is that this feeling does go away. Especially the more open and honest you are with yourself about how you feel. It really sucks, I know I felt like this for a few years too. And one reason you feel that way (I’m assuming because it’s why I felt that way) is because you were completely screwed over and lied to by people who call themselves Christians. Who are supposed to people you can trust. And it’s a really hard lesson to learn, but you can’t trust people based on what they say about themselves. There are some real creepers at Teen Mania who are aloud to continue on there because they say and act like an all-star christian on the surface. It sucks and it’s wrong. And I’m really sorry you were subject to them.
Also – you can tell it’s a scam if they make you pay 1000’s of dollars and all they teach you to do is pray or read the bible. A lot of places give zero training and they charge an arm and a leg to anyone who will give it to them.
So I promise you it will get better. It sucks right now but it will, and you will be a much stronger person for it, just keep pushing yourself to be an amazing person.The other thing is I would recommend is studying up on ways that churches manipulate their followers. I do believe in God but there are some churches out there that are out for financial gain not God’s approval. You were very much taken advantage of and not just because you were lied to. Teen Mania uses sleep depravation and poor food to catch people off guard and get them to do what they want. Those methods along with other things.Again, I’m so sorry you went through all of that. I’m really happy you shared your story. Thank you. 🙂
Sabrina, I’m so glad you chose to speak out but I am so sorry for your pain. I think you have touched upon many commonly shared fears and emotions within the community.It’s true that things do indeed get better, but I know it’s still scary right now. Let me tell you, take your time to follow your heart and heal. Personally, even once I’d decided that I wanted to get back into a church, it took me well over a year to actually find the courage to do so. I actually wrote to many different churches in my area and inquired whether or not they would support Teen Mania Ministries, and briefly explained why I was asking.Amazingly (to me) none of the churches supported or said they would support TM. Some clearly stated they were opposed to the methods and results. And one church in particular sent me a link to a sermon they did called Scandalous Love.It took me a year to even listen to that sermon. That’s how afraid I was to be back in a church. But eventually, I found myself ready to listen to it and the message really changed my outlook on faith. It was a significant milestone in my healing. After that, I started investigating the church and skulking out the web site for new messages, trying to feel them out if this was a good fit for me. And then I started attending a few weeks ago, and am enormously happy with the decision.My point is that TM does a good job at causing us to forget that faith is a very personal thing. If we don’t live and follow it as such, it becomes a heavy burden that shackles us to the ground. Healthy faith makes you free. So I really encourage you to simply ask questions and do research–I believe that you will be able to find some really incredible ministries out there that focus solely on God’s Love and extending that love throughout the world in a tangible and healthy way. Who knows, maybe you’ll go down a path of creating the position you seek.I hope you stay connected to the community here. We care about you and personally I look forward to seeing you on your path to recovery.
Also this book: http://www.amazon.com/Take-Back-Your-Life-Relationships/dp/0972002154it’s something my therapist had me look it and I found it really helpful, if you are looking for something to help you on your journey.
Sabrina, Thank you for sharing your story. I’m so sorry this happened to you. I know what you’re going through and the pain you feel–we all do, and we’re here for you. **Hugs**
The sad part here is blaming the victim:”They DEFENDED all the crap that happened on my trip….I told someone who I thought was a “friend.”…
And she said I was deceived and speaking the lies of Satan.”It not until people see that they can do wrong, that they do hurt people and they are abusive there is no change or healing will not/ can not begin.Thank you for being brave enough to speak up. Never silence your voice there are people that want to hear your story.
Thanks for sharing your story, Sabrina. Cindy Kunsman over at Under Much Grace has a lot of good resources and suggestions for people who are healing from spiritual abuse. See http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/
Thank you for speaking up. I am so sorry this happened and made you question what was in your heart. Like shannon I hope you find welcoming and lovr in our community.
Not that it matters but I’m just guessing here that your PD was Kenny Ortiz….yep same thing happened to me and SEVERAL people I know. That guy and several other PD’s should be expelled from TM as they are the most terrible people…..but they keep going because their friends with leadership. completely rediculous…their all part of Emmie Harper & Beth Anderson’s entourage
Oh my goodness!Anon, how did you guess it was him?!
LOL….And thanks, everyone. I have been reading your comments. They’ve helped.
This is so sad but so true for a lot of ministries. I’m to the point that I’d rather not go to Church. I love the Lord and love His people but I refuse to subject myself to condemnation, legalism, and the law that has been nailed to the cross. Jesus is love and the only thing that we owe anyone is to love them. All of our sins have been forgiven and Christ has taken our reproach away. They don’t preach the gospel of Christ. I read the gospels and not one time did Jesus Condemn anyone. All He did was heal people, opened blind eyes, forgave people sentenced to die because of the law, and made people whole. Christ is a loving and awesome God but so many ministries are so focused on the outer appearance (behavior) that they neglect the heart. I pray that everyone of us who have experienced this kind of pain would find wholeness and rest in Christ because that’s why He died. He died to take our pain, shame, guilt, and sin and make us new. I wasn’t introduced to TM by a summer camp, ATF, or Missions Trip. I was already in ministry and saw Jeremy Meister preaching at a youth conference I was preaching at and was introduced to TM through the fellowship of the burning heart. He was very nice and presented TM in such a good way that I wanted to try it. I didn’t know that he was a graduate intern at the time (this was before he started Servants of the Call). I wanted to do what he was doing. I was already in a ministry doing that but I felt the call to missions pressed upon my heart and my Youth Director at the time felt that would be a good idea. So I went to the Honor Academy in January of 2001 and the rest is history. While there I was an ACA, on the Honor Council, on the Dance Team, Assistant to the Head of GE at the time, etc. I received a lot of promotions in my ministry placement but I still felt like I wasn’t good enough. I watched as others experienced harsh criticism. I did when I tried to defend the “underdog”. People felt that I was undermining “authority”. I was criticized for being strong in my faith even when I didn’t agree with what was being taught.I had even convinced myself I could stick it out to be apart of the fellowship but the year that I was there they weren’t letting January interns join. That should have been a sign but it wasn’t I went down Gideon’s road and decided to stay as a CA. As graduation approached them more I started to feel condemned and like the walls were closing in.How is it that teens who are on fire for the Lord could ever be questioning their salvation when all we do is pray, fellowship, convince people to attend ATFs and missions trips, go to church, and help people in the community. There is something very wrong with that.I even heard a joke on campus that I didn’t find funny. People would say that, “some interns who can’t cut it become agnostic or atheist”. How can that be funny? How can young people who start off loving Christ go to a place that causes them to lose their faith? There must be something wrong with the culture. People should leave a ministry internship uplifted, loved, and desiring to love others.It’s been 12 years and I am still dealing with this experience in some shape or form. I have endured churches like this and I shy away as well.I read my word, have an awesome personal relationship with Christ but I’m scared to submerge myself into ministry with a church because I’m afraid of making that commitment and being spiritually abused like at TM.
I’m so sorry… I had him as my PD too when I went on my trip with GE. That whole experience was a whole shitstorm that I won’t get into right now, only to say that I can relate somewhat to your feelings (though probably not to that extent) but I didn’t deal with them until years later, after I started reading this blog, actually. Some of it in a serious way.I wish I could tell you not to let it get to you, but that wouldn’t be okay. You were hurt, and you’re dealing and struggling with those feelings. I am so sorry about what happened, and I hope and pray that you can continue to work through those things, and speak out — and I’m sure you will. Just know that as hard as it is to swallow, especially because of all the BS that they fed you, that is in NO WAY a reflection on who YOU are! It is horrible and unfortunate that you were treated without grace, but know that it is nothing that you did. Maybe you felt overlooked, like you weren’t “good enough” for the rest of them, but the truth is that they don’t truly know how to work with people’s strengths, so you were left with so much to offer and nothing to do with it. None of that was your fault. YOU are not the one who is deceived, THEY are. I’m so proud of you for taking this huge leap of faith to break through and speak out in spite of the fear, in spite of the guilt, in spite of everything else. You have broken free from the cycle, and while it may take awhile to work through everything, often that’s all it takes for you to eventually move past it. There IS a light at the end of this tunnel, I promise 🙂
Where are John and Dave at these days?
Kenny Ortiz! Does that guy still work for TM? I have seen how shaken up a person can be after experiencing that know nothing, bully on trips. The sad part is, they actually have him teach and speak to upcoming summer leaders. I would encourage anyone who has experienced problems with PD’s to this extent to email GE. You may hate GE, but that is no excuse to allow others to go through the same thing.
Kenny still works with GE and he is involved with ATF and the volunteers. Here is the new training video he hosts. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNp0l5rNi7g I am a PD and I met Ortiz or should say observed Kenny during his first year during PD training and voiced my concern at the time that he would be problematic as a PD. His approach is extremely reckless in the area of emotional and spiritual leadership with teens of varying backgrounds. As a PD I know first hand that many are horrible and many are good. I too encourage that if you have a bad experience to PLEASE speak up. I apologize for the horrible experience you had and it just encourages me to try even harder to make sure those things don’t happen on any of my trips with GE or any other I may lead.
I just watched the youtube video JacklovesJill posted about Kenny Ortiz.Weird, I’ve never met him. He must be able to act really well or something. He looks convincingly happy and awesome. I could just see a bunch of kids going on a GE trip thinking that he is awesome only to be humiliated and insulted the whole time or something.I could only watch the training video until the part where they did an offering.
What a bunch of jerks. Charging kids $55 to go to the freaking event in the first place then taking an offering like they’re a church.
Extend the grace you wish you would have received. Attacking people isn’t going to bring healing.
Anonymous, I agree that attacking people is not the answer. But this blog is also about honesty.
When there are toxic people causing widespread damage i.e. David Hasz, Heath Stoner and to a lesser extent Kenny Ortiz is it wrong to name that person. In my opinion it is not, ESPECIALLY when doing so can help other people from being submitted to the same abuse under their leadership. I for one think parents would LOVE to have this information before sending their student on a trip with Kenny or ANYONE else who is unbalanced and potentially damaging. If you read both sides of the story and you make the deicsion either personally or as a parent to submit yourself or child to that leadership style then you are doing so from an educated standpoint. I believe however, if we never mention a name and call them out then the Ortiz, Hasz, Stoner leaders can continue to operate in a cloud of secrecy which in the end breads more destruction. There has been much Grace extended by the people on this baord and outside of this community so much so that countless lives have been forever altered and damaged. Grace is not hiding the truth or covering up guilt but rather exposing and forgiving and seeing the guilty reformed and restored. The bad thing is Ortiz, Hasz and Stoner (and others like them) will not allow themselves to embrace both sides of Grace the side that says “I was wrong, please forgive me and allow me to change” Instead they want a perverted version of Grace that says “I’m not wrong, I still will do what I’m doing and if you are wounded by it that is your fault. Now get out of my was and stop talking about how I hurt you”.
They say there are two kinds of evil people in the world: people who do evil things, and people who see evil things being done and don’t do anything to stop it.The recent posts dealing with Ortiz were not attacking him, but urged people to alert TM and any other helpful authorities so that no one else would have to be subjected to abuse under his leadership. What is wrong with bringing to light what are very real hurts and abuses and using that information to try to prevent such things from occurring in the future?
I also went on a trip with Ortiz and it changed my life in such a negative way that I will never go back with GE ever again. I constantly felt be-raided, be-littled & worthless with everything I did. There were great times where he shared his heart and emotions but they were always overcome by his times of arrogance and pride. He is someone that is not willing to receive correction from anyone that is not on “his level”. I came to him with some things I felt the Lord had showed me about his leadership and he told me I was completely wrong but “thanks”. I was told at the end of the trip that my heart was clearly not lined up with GE and that he would not recommend I do another trip with them ever again. The sad thing is, he has so many friends at TM that he actually has the ability to keep me from ever going again. The people that lead that department are just as pompous, arrogant and misguided as he is and I am thankful that my time with TM is over. I would STRONGLY encourage anyone that has dealt with Kenny Ortiz and his tyranical leadership to reach out to TM and let it be known…..he needs to be disciplined and even if they don’t take him out of power, he needs to understand that its not just a few that have been hurt by him but a great many. I don’t expect GE to ever change the way they do things but they do need to hear everytime one of their leaders represents them in a way that is not lined up with biblical standards.For those of you defending Kenny or anyone else, our hope is not to make them look bad, that is not the intention at all. Our hope is to help people understand that they if they are going to go on a trip with GE, steer clear of any trips being led by Kenny Ortiz.
Dear Sabrina-One of the hardest things about being in groups like this, is that when you leave your emotions are all over the place. Speaking for myself, when I left the church I was part of, I was so confused, hurt, and angry. I didn’t know what was wrong with me.Some resources that really helped me were:The Subtle power of Spiritual Abuse (book: by Jeff VanVondern)Talking with others who went through the same experiences as I and receiving validation and comfort, as you hear others with the same experiences, you will know it was not your fault!I want to encourage you to be kind to yourself. Go for a walk and enjoy the beauty around you. Get coffee with a friend. Try to talk to others that understand.Wellspring retreat center (you can google it) may help you a lot. It is a organization set up by someone who left a cult and you can go for a few days/2 weeks. They help you process your experience (trained psychologists who specialize in this, as well as Christian counseling if you want it) and heal from it.When leaving a group like this, there are spiritual issues to work through, but also physical/psychological issues. Some of the emotions you mentioned (when seeing someone who reminded you of your group leader) remind me of Post-traumatic stress disorder. It might be helpful to read a book called “I can’t get over it.” If you contact Wellspring, they have resources to help you with this too! It might be too soon for you to do this. I know when I left, all I could do for the next few months, was cry, sleep, and try to spend time with others.It might take some time to work through everything. Be patient with yourself!Best wishes!”Been there before”
I am glad this is a forum where everyone can be honest from their own perspective:) I went to Haiti with Kenny an even tho I am older than him he truly inspired me. He has such a heart for the nations. He is down to earth and very easy to talk with. Guess we all have opinions:)
I don’t. Think I’ve ever seen Kenny Ortiz while I was at TM.. Did he just join the ministry?
I think that POS Kenny Ortiz was fired from teen mania. What an a-hole
A few notes from someone who went on a GE trip literally half my life time ago. First (and, coincidentally,last, though I had a great trip) trip overseas, first mission trip. Working now as a nurse in mental health and I wanted to comment on first the amount of trauma expressed in some of the responses…this is real and dangerous especially as it is tied to your spiritual wellbeing. I would encourage anyone on this blog who has felt (or realize that they may have suffered)abuse of any kind while being part of any religious organization (not just TM). Seek out someone who can listen and help in your recovery. Much of what has been described (even the intensity of physical requirements)does sound like a cult…that can be described as ‘spiritually mature’. Dear friends, if anyone needs to chat or just needs a listening ear, this forum is a great way to do it. I would encourage people to seek out someone in their life (personal relationship, trained counselor, pastor…someone you trust)who can offer insight and feedback to facilitate healing.
I went on the Nepal/India mixer in 2011. Is this the same trip you went on? I’d love to connect! I don’t remember most of my TeenMania memories. And I don’t know why—maybe trauma? Maybe something else?
But I’m looking to connect with others to try and figure out why It’s so hard to remember what happened to me. I’m digging and researching and trying to figure out everything. Trying to sort through my own hurts and properly assign them.
But I was also I n leadership as well! An MA on the mission trip and a CA at the Honor Academy internship. The more I learn, the more I’m fearful of: what If I lead others wrongfully or hurtfully during my time in leading there!
-Nakita