Teen Mania Wants You to be a Martyr (Preferably in the Middle East)

“If that wasn’t intense enough for you, Emmie raises the stakes by telling the interns that certain Biblical promises are only for full time missionaries.

@51:30 – Matthew 6:33 – That promise is not for everyone. It doesn’t just automatically happen because you give your life to Jesus.

It is for those who seek first his kingdom, who make missions their priority. If its not your priority, that Scripture that promise of provision, it does not apply to you. Throw it out because you have decided to provide for yourself.”

WTH?? Wow…I am so glad my child is back home and learning the TRUTH of God’s Word.

You know, I remember Ron Luce saying this EXACTLY at an ATF right before the summer I went on a GE trip. He said, “Pray to stay, you’re already called to go. God has already called you to missions.” Reflecting, I see that it’s such a distortion of Scripture.

Ugh soo how does she think the lost of America will find God if all those who she thinks should go do so? I mean if all the capable christians are overseas who is the preacher in the college town to keep teens away from such evils as the all night party? So many things about this are scary and wrong and I am so sad for those that are there and learning from this woman. She was not all there as an intern if I recall and she’s never really gotten better.

By this “logic,” all of TM’s leadership are likewise “hiding behind the fact that they’re in ministry,” acting as though they’re called to stay in Texas, which makes them unmitigated Grade-A hypocrites.

(Come to think of it, I suppose that line of thinking would explain why they’re struggling financially…)

“The kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21), so you can seek it first whether you’re in the Middle East or Middle America.

Wow with all the intense supervision and rules on GE trips, I’d imagine it’s pretty hard to get to the point of actually shedding blood on foreign soil. After all, we were told that everybody who’s attended a GE trip has returned safely.

Or you could save the money and just go take a walk at night. Grab somebody by the shoulders and tell them Jesus loves them. You’ll probably get shanked, depending on what part of the country you’re from. Then your blood can run on the sands of like….. Detroit, or something. You still get the Scriptural benefits, without having to buy a plane ticket! Boom, loophole.

YOUR MOVE, EMMIE.

“I hope that as a result of what you give and what you do that the name of Jesus will be made famous to people who right now, do not know him.

I hope that you will demonstrate courage and faith.

I hope that you will die a death that will point thousands to Christ.”

So I’ve been thinking about this…perhaps someone can help me process this.

How is Emmie’s speech different from the rhetoric of the Norway Bomber/killer? Not only are her words dripping with the guilt and condemnation that RA points of…but to me there’s an undercurrent of hate, violence, and oddly fame. Not love and grace.

@51:30 – Matthew 6:33 – That promise is not for everyone. It doesn’t just automatically happen because you give your life to Jesus.

It is for those who seek first his kingdom, who make missions their priority. If its not your priority, that Scripture that promise of provision, it does not apply to you. Throw it out because you have decided to provide for yourself.

When you take missions and remove it from your mind, you are literally saying, “God I will provide for myself, I will do life my way.”

actually emmie… thats not at all what this verse says….. might want to consider not adding to God’s word.

I know Emmie. I love her dearly and it hurts to see her so brainwashed.

I think it is stupid how we need to fix everyone else in the world and totally ignore the messed up people of the USA, Aren’t we suppose to remove the plank from are own eye before taking care of the speck in our friends eye? If our country is messed up then what well the people think in other country’s, “Did they give up hope on their country”

I believe in foreign missions… And I believe that everyone who can should do at least a short term foreign mission… And I believe we should support those who are doing foreign missions…
But to say that EVERYONE should do foreign missions is ridiculous. Think about this… Paul obviously did foreign missions… But when he was done, he went back & reported to the apostles who were in Jerusalem. None of them were out on foreign missions… So were those early church leaders all doing the wrong thing? If so, wouldn’t have Paul called them out on it instead of reporting to them?

I’ve been on quite a few mission trips, and I can tell you not everyone is cut out for missions. Some people really just lack the temperament, flexibility, openess to new experience to be successful in other countries–not to mention varying levels of ability to acquire new language and retain new cultural norms. I have seen people try and struggle desperately, believing God is demanding this, trying to “consider it all joy” when it is a daily struggle to deal with homesickness, culture shock, and depression. You cannot tell me it is truly God’s perfect will for that person to do foreign missions when they could be pouring their life into a ministry or work in the U.S. that they are better suited for, passionate about, and able to get much more result with less agony! The TM obsession with martyrdom is also disturbing. I left convinced if you really loved God, the only way to show it was to die for Him. So, sorry St. John, if you really loved Jesus, you would’ve been crucified upside down instead of writing a bunch of stuff!

I know Emmie too and this is pretty much her to a T. So sad that anyone might believe it and she might even be mentoring some of those poor interns.

I could not possibly be more angry than I am now.

I don’t even know if I have the coherent thoughts to attempt to put into words everything about this particular post that just absolutely grieves me (and brings up a whole mess of anger that I had really hoped I dealt with already), but I’ll try to condense.

This is personal. When I was an intern, on my “Vision Retreat” (do they still do that one? The second fasting retreat of the year when you get your “vision” for your life and your life’s mission statement?) I was in the last group session of the weekend. We were supposed to sit and wait for staff members to come and pray for us–a staff member I really respected came up to me and lay hands on me and essentially told me God told her I was to die a martyr’s death. We met to talk about it a few days later, and I asked her to clarify–in which case she told me that was indeed what she meant.

This messed me up for years. The damage this did in my relationships, my faith…ugh. I can hardly talk about it.

Knowing how that staff member’s words affected me the way that they did, I cannot begin to describe how angry it makes me that a staff member like Emmie is standing in the front and preaching this to ALL of the interns…

I can’t…ugh. unbelievable.

Anon

Your ‘vision retreat’ sounds a lot like the Native American occult practice called a ‘vision quest’ Undertaken by young people, the vision quest also includes a period of fasting followed by a period of isolation in which the seeker attempts to discover his life and spiritual direction. Often the seeker will have a vision or a dream of a spirit guide who will show him his life’s destiny.

Steve, having been on both as my my grandpa was Cherokee let me state that the vision quest experienced under Native American life practices (please do not insult a lifestyle as Occult practice when it’s not and is not dependent on what deity if any you worship)is far safer. The fast in a vision quest is 24 hours or less (when your spirit says you are ready) then you go to a designated quiet place and pray with low end rations for three days. Admittedly pb and crackers and those cheese cracker things you get at the store are not the most glamorous of foods but When I did my Cherokee Vision quest I was monitored greatly for the fasting portion which was less than 24 hours then I was monitored in my travel and focus which was a camping for 18 hours I was never in danger and I did not have to stay with out food for 3 days as is required in both fasting retreats with minimal (just the other interns) observation and more communication.

I don’t really consider the vision retreat to be similar to a Native American vision quest. It’s really more like pretending to seek God for the weekend so you can make up a 5 year plan for your life that sounds holier than everyone else’s. But that’s a long name for a retreat. 🙂

The whole idea of making a 5 year plan is really ridiculous to me, because no one really hears from God like that. I mean, sure, He might tell Joseph that everyone will be bowing down to him one day, but God left out the part where he would be sold into slavery, falsely accused of rape, and put in prison in the meantime. I’m GLAD God does not reveal every step of the road before we get there!!! I did not come up with a 5 year plan during my retreat and EVERYONE quoted Proverbs 29:18 to me, “Where there is no vision, the people perish,” and were probably praying for my soul that I wouldn’t perish. I was like, it’s not that I don’t have any vision, I don’t have every step written out for the next 5 years! Totally different! Here are some Scriptures, also from Proverbs, that refute the idiotic 5 year plan if you were hurt by it:

Proverbs 16:3
Commit to the LORD whatever you do, and he will establish your plans.
Proverbs 16:9
In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.
Proverbs 19:21
Many are the plans in a person’s heart, but it is the LORD’s purpose that prevails.

So, it doesn’t sound like God is really into the whole “seek a vision for your every move for the next 5 years” thing. And if Ron and Dave had done that, they would both be on the mission field full time right now, because that’s what they both thought they were called to as teens! There is a lot more fluidity and flexibility to the Christian life than a 5 year plan allows!

Heartsfire – no offense intended but if your Native American vision quest is a spiritual journey that is not dependent on believing in any particular deity it is by definition occultic. What sort of spirits do you think you are contacting?

@Steve –
Ahem – per wikipedia: Occultism is the term used to describe the study of occult practices including(but not limited to) magic, alchemy, extra-sensory perception, astrology, spiritualism, and divination. Intepretation of occultism and its concepts can be found in the belief structures of religions such as Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Wicca, Satanism, Thelema, and Neopaganism[8]. A broad definition is offered by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke:

Generally occult is used in reference to Wicca or Satanism (thought I personally wouldn’t call wicca that). AND the ” spiritual journey that is not dependent on believing in any particular deity” is referring to 1 deity not being favored over another. In other words – if you believe in God thats what guides your journey, if you believe in nature – thats your guide… it is personal based on YOUR beliefs, not those of tribe, elders, community… etc.

I fail to how that is anything like drawing a pentagram with 7 of your friends and attempting to ‘conjure satan’.

Steve as I was a christian at the time of my vision quest I prayed to the Christian God. The thoughts I got were not some random spirit although I did learn through thinking on the animals that my spiritual animal equivalent is the squirrel, they were more bits of information such as I would get in any other normal prayer because while it was a LONG prayer it was just that prayer praise and worship. I like Phoenix would not call the wiccan religion occultist but still even if you were to do so Calling Native American cultural practices as such ignores their very open style to understanding God and in large part acceptance of the christian faith as it is very close to the stories they had prior to the white man coming from over the ocean. Your comment was rather offensive to a culture that lives and should live on regardless of what religion those who are of that culture have accepted as their own. The imagery of all of creation being brothers and sisters to us is very prevalent in the bible as well it’s just Native Americans take the vow to protect the world given to us more seriously than others because the culture is so connected to the earth. The earth is what was given to us to sustain life the lives of all things on this planet are important not just those of the human race.

I really did not intend to start an argument here. I was simply pointing out the similarity of the vision retreat to the vision quest.

Phoenix – if you will look a little closer at your wiki definition of occult you will see it includes spiritualism and divination. Divination is any attempt to contact the spirit world outside the parameters of scripture and the Holy Spirit. Seeking to contact the spirit world by “whatever god you believe in” is in fact divination. Pentagrams and calling on satan has nothing to do with it.

Furthermore since TM preaches a false works based gospel they cannot be worshiping the Jesus of the bible so I’m not surprised they would take a pagan occultic practice and try to “christianize” it by using evangelical buzz words.

Heartsfire – I’m looking for the scripture that tells us to seek our “spiritual animal equivalent” I’ll get back to you as soon as I find it

Steve it’s about the equivalent of a psychological test to see what personality you have the natives attach you to an animal in personality to explain how you function the same way Myers Briggs does except without it seeming so clinical while I am an ENFJ in Myers brings in more ancient methods to describe the same thing I am Squirrel.

Also Steve when you INSULT a cultural action that has nothing to do with religion by calling it an occult action you show yourself to try to cause an argument and harm people. A person at a charismatic church is very likely to use spiritualism and divination by standing at the front asking prayer and receiving “words” from God through others. If this is truly your definition of occult then you will find that there are a LARGE amount of traditional christian practices that would qualify. Seeking to contact YOUR GOD through prayer is not divination and that you say it is shows ignorance and idiocy on your part educate yourself on what other cultures actually do before you spread hate on these forums!

Steve – I did read the part on spiritualism and divination, however that was the definition only from the christian perspective, not the global definition. You’ll note that the Jewish and Hindu definition differs as well. You may find it interesting that in some christian circles speaking in thongs is considered to be spiritualism and divination… Would you also consider that to be signs of the occults?

Many of your comments in this thread appear a little ignorant, and quite insulting. To label someone else journey to God as ‘evil’ (and lets face it when you tell someone they’re involved in the occult – its synonymous with devil worship) your going to insight an argument. Not to mention its the same type of abuse the TM dished out like candy. If your not worshiping God our way – its wrong. There are many paths to God – the journey is personal, but the destination is the same.

To call out Heartsfire to site scripture for her “spiritual animal equivalent” rude, uncalled for, and spiritually abusive. Her journey is her journey and doesn’t need to justify it you, me, or anyone else.

Furthermore – this community is a mixed bag of religions, beliefs, non-beliefs and ideals. We are open to people from all walks with out judgment.

Ok guys, we’ve gone WAY far afield from the topic at hand…If you want to continue this conversation, please do it over email.

This video has to do with being called to Missions no matter where you are. She was meaning that if your shopping you can tell people about Jesus or if your in Africa you can tell people. Everyone has a mission field and is called no matter where you are. Thats what she was saying. Dont twist her words. This is very biblical and God wants us all to minister his word to people so they dont go to hell. He even said in his word to go forth and preach and teach the gospel. I watched the interview and it relates exactly with scripture people.

Actually given her whole speech (yes we have that mp3 file) she wants everyone to go OVERSEAS by her own words. So who is twisting her words. Are we suppose to minister by who we are and what we do sure are we suppose to abandon those in our towns to all go over and serve Africa, or the 10/40 window? NOPE!

So the whole gospel story can be summed in these words “God wants us all to minister his word to people so they dont go to hell.” Is that correct Anonymous?

Heartsfire, I have the speech too on my computer, so I dont need you to be rude and say “so who is twisting her words”. If your a christian then stop causing conflict within the body of Christ.

2010 alumni- I agree with Anonymous, heartsfire is really not looking at what she was trying to say. Your just trying to fit it with what your wanting to think. Emmie has served in Christian Ministry for the past 11 years, shes done huge things for the kingdom. I dont see anyone else hear helping to send thousands on the mission field. Take from the video what you want, but shes definitely helping the kingdom of God.

Anon you haven’t shown one bit of love to anyone here I am sorry if I seemed confrontational but I brought as was given I don’t mind saying that I find this woman and her thought’s pretty scary and I did when she was nothing more than an intern. My responding in love to you would be similar to what I just said Except for the following I respectfully disagree with you because having heard her entire speech from this lecture she really doesn’t grasp the reality of the post christian society or how much of a mission any christian is on in this day and age. It’s a horribly sad thing for her. That said Emmie has always been someone who saw the world through a tunnel vision. If she really believed a thing she says she herself would be overseas instead of inflicting her narrow mindedness on further generations.

Anon, this is a pretty bold statement– “I dont see anyone else hear helping to send thousands on the mission field.”

Given that you don’t know all of us, nor what all of us do for a living, nor what churches we are involved in, nor what ministries we are involved in– it is pretty presumptuous of you to say that none of us are doing anything to help send thousands to the mission field.

For a little background– I don’t need to send anyone to the mission field. I live in a mission field in my backyard. While my mission has nothing to do with Christ or anything related to religion, my mission is nonetheless important. You see, I am a social worker. So, on a given day, I see kids and adults who have been battered and bruised, raped and tortured and I seek to provide them with shelter, food, and other assistance daily.

I apologize if my “mission” is not reaching the “thousands” that Emmie’s “mission” is. I apologize if my “mission” is not seeking to help the kingdom of any entity…. BUT, my “mission” is JUST AS IMPORTANT, if not MORE important than Emmie’s.

So, please don’t come here and act “holier than thou” because Emmie sends kids to a different country every summer, or because you assume you know what Emmie meant in her speech.

Both Heartsfire and myself were interns with Emmie and therefore know where her heart is and has always been.

Much Like Shannon I am a Therapeutic Psychologist among being a professor my mission in life is to teach thousands of kids a year about their mind and how the mind works to create personality, handles stress, What makes us fall in love ect. I also spend days and days with people one on one. I am also someone who believes in God and works with a ministry on a college campus. MY Mission field isn’t thousands of miles away it’s here in my town with people who live on a campus where there was a woman abducted off the street in the past 6 months For no reason than walking HOME FROM A FRIENDS. People’s mission and their ministry can happen anywhere to say it only can happen outside of the US or in designated trips is ignorance.

Hey my name is “Lacey.”
I just went on a mission trip with GE over the summer. [ugh, my story should be coming soon]
HOWEVER, I was called into foreign missions at a very young age. About 14. And God was very specific about a couple of countries. One is India, and the other is Afghanistan, although He isn’t calling me there EXACTLY. I have a weird feeling that I might end up going there…by accident. [I know it sounds weird.]
However, I do not a lot about Muslims and the Koran, and I know a lot of them that I love and want to see come to Christ.
And while I understand the possibility of being a martyr, I don’t think its okay to hope to be one. That’s like saying, “Dear God, please kill me.” No, I mean, if I have to die for Jesus, so be it. But I think there is so much more than that. God doesn’t like watching people suffer, even for His name, and we certainly, Christians or not, should NOT wish suffering upon other people. Because then we are showing the complete opposite of God’s heart, and are, rather, reflecting Satan.
So yeah, pray for me! About to take a big step in my life and become a teacher in India!
Read my GE story.
Remember, let us also respond out of grace. [as hard as that may be]
~~ Lacey