In a post on December 1, 2008, David Hasz, director of the Honor Academy, said:
In this spiritual battle, it is crucial that you remember who provides the strength to win the battle. Satan’s conquests are only successful over ignorant individuals who don’t have the strength or understanding to resist him. Only Christians without complete armor will ever find themselves in this state. Satan’s assaults on a saint, “whose freedom was won at the Cross, once for all,” are as ineffective as laying siege to a city with sturdy gates and bars. If you are prepared with the full armor, you wil be protected against the enemy, even in your weakest state.
This is just another example of the dangerous doctrine that Teen Mania interns are steeped in. It’s hard to see how dangerous it is until you’ve lived in it for a while. So let me share my experience. The first sentence sounds Biblical enough – we do need to remember whose strength we rely on to win the battle. But then, as he so often does, Dave totally undermines that thought with the rest of his post. Satan can only successfully attack ignorant or weak Christians? Do you see how that puts the blame for everything bad that happens to you right at your feet? He completely disregards the reality of our fallen world and fallen nature and insists that we can live in a protected bubble – so long as we do, feel and say the right things.
This is exactly what I experienced in the Honor Academy. If I was struggling with anything its because I wasn’t good enough – I wasn’t serving enough, studying enough, praying enough, etc. You are blamed for all your problems. This kind of theology creates a performance trap that you can’t ever outgrow. You try hard to become the Christian you are supposed to be, but you inevitably fall short. This leads to despair and then another effort to try even harder. And the cycle goes on and on.
Towards the end of my second year, after months and months of trying as hard as I could to seek God, doing everything I knew to do, but living in despair because I couldn’t hear him or feel Him feel – I went to Dave Hasz. I sat in his office and asked him what to do. Why is this happening to me? How can I find God again? I was in a dry, desert place. This same theology is what he fed me. Without so much as a hint of compassion for this broken vessel, he said my problem is that I wasn’t going to church enough. He blamed me for not seeking God correctly or doing enough Christian things. It was devastating because I was seeking God as hard as I could.
How harmful is this doctrine! As long as we are in a fallen world, we will face pain and tribulation and struggle. To say that, “Only Christians without complete armor will ever find themselves in this state,” is a lie from the pit of hell. It has two outcomes – the successful become proud because of their righteousness and the rest become despondent. Neither of those two outcomes seems particularly healthy or Biblical to me.
41 COMMENTS
Anonymous | June 23, 2009 at 1:01 pm | ReplyThis is a curious post. The comment above attributed to David Hasz was actually David Hasz reading from the Book “The Christian in Complete Armour” written by William Gurnall. This book by the way has been claimed by many pillars in the faith as the greatest book ever written other than the Bible. After reading that quote from the book, I also went on to state that when you sin – don’t look to yourself for the power over sin as you don’t have it. Our power over sin comes from Jesus. I often remind interns that we are not going to conquere sin on our own but only through the grace and strength of Jesus. What is really tragic in this post is this individual has NEVER come to me with these concerns (IE: Matt. 18) but instead posts them. I pray that this alumni does “recover”, I am only concerned what that means. Email me anytime with questions or concerns – all alumni know my email address: david.hasz@teenmania.org.
admin | June 24, 2009 at 3:32 am | ReplyDave,I copied directly from your website and it was not clearly stated that you were quoting from a book. I even linked to your website so that the reader can look for themselves.I have no doubt that you tell the interns that our power over sin comes from Jesus, but the over-riding attitude and culture of the Honor Academy does not reflect that.”Satan’s conquests are only successful over ignorant individuals who don’t have the strength or understanding to resist him.” This is flatly unbiblical – consider the story of Job. Which was he – ignorant or weak?I am not here to debate you. I know exactly what you believe, having spent 2 years under your leadership. I am not required by Matthew 18 to bring this matter to you privately. I am addressing things you have taught in a very public forum to thousands of people. If you have taught it in public, it is free to be critiqued in public. There are many examples of this in the NT.What is tragic, is how many people you have hurt emotionally and spiritually – and you don’t even realize it.
Wendy J. Duncan | June 25, 2009 at 3:32 am | Reply“I am not required by Matthew 18 to bring this matter to you privately. I am addressing things you have taught in a very public forum to thousands of people. If you have taught it in public, it is free to be critiqued in public.”I agree. Matthew 18 does not apply to your blog.It always amazes me that spiritual abusers never take any responsibility for their actions.
Anonymous | September 27, 2009 at 2:47 pm | Replyhaha. Amen to Wendy. Totally manipulative Mr. Hasz.
“You can email me.” … ?
But can’t publicly address you?
I heard that so much as an intern. And I remember addressing you- a few times actually and every response was insensitive, and off base. I would leave thinking, “He didn’t actually answer the question I asked…”
Look for it interns…
It’s not that curious of a post. And I pray we all recover as well.
Corrie | October 2, 2009 at 2:19 pm | ReplyI must say that the fact “all comments are moderated” and “approved” makes this post completely one sided and not quite the “public forum” you say you are presenting…think about it.Incredibly changed and blessed alumni
admin | October 2, 2009 at 3:08 pm | ReplyCorrie,Interesting argument, but I never said that this was a “public forum.” Re-read the comment. I said I was critiquing it in public.What about the “vow” you took to “never portray the ministry in a negative light?” Isn’t that one-sided?This blog isn’t for Teen Mania fans. It’s for people who have been hurt. We are out there and there are hundreds of us. I’m glad you had a good experience – we didn’t. Why can’t we talk about it?
Anonymous | October 8, 2009 at 4:29 pm | ReplySo thinking on Dave Hasz’s statement – (it’s true if you go to his blog it doesn’t state clearly that it is from a book. it looks like he wrote it. wow D.H.) Does anyone else see the situation? Why didn’t Mr. Hasz write this privately if that is what he believes Recovering should have done? and why was he so nervous? “I am only concerned about what that means…”And interns really are ready to kick it up a gear ANYTIME, ANYONE, says ANYTHING bad about Teen Mania.- I know… I was one of them. I’ve been out for two years now, and I was talking to a friend about some of the ways TeenMania did things that I disagreed with (this girl has been out as long as me.) and she was all ready with her defense- which I could read right through, because I’d been indoctrinated with the same defense.
I still can’t really put my finger on why it is that we come away feeling such a love and attachment to the place even through all the terrible memeories, shame and guilt we feel when we leave. or I guess you could also feel a serious sence of human pride like you just did something great and amazing that no one else would ever beable to handle unless they were as amazing as you.
I’m thinking now that it’s just not healthy. 🙂 took me a while to figure it out.
Like, look at ‘Cory’ signing off, “Incredibly changed and blessed alumni” maybe this wasn’t what he/she was trying to get across but it definitely comes off to me “Teen Mania is amazing and if you want to say anything bad about the place, go ahead cause you obviously need to get over your pains weaklings.” haha. or something to that effect.
It’s just nuts to me.
admin | October 8, 2009 at 9:46 pm | ReplyYeah, it is weird isn’t it? Even though it put me in a suicidal depression I was still gung-ho Teen Mania for several months after my departure…
Dan Hillman | November 20, 2009 at 4:53 pm | ReplyDepending on what exactly Dave means in his assertions here, what he said is either true or false.Certainly, God is Sovereign. And certainly, nothing can happen to the elect of God without God allowing it to happen. Satan is a defeated foe, and he can’t do anything to harm us without God’s permission.Also, we do need to contend for the faith and fight the good fight of faith. Though God promised to deliver Noah, Noah had to diligently build the ark.Also, we need to remember that Jesus often did not perform many miracles in various places for their lack of faith. Jesus was constantly rebuking people for their lack of faith.However, God did allow Satan to significantly harm Job. If Dave is implying that Job was somehow ignorant or unprepared, and that is the reason that he had to endure the suffering he went through, then Dave is asserting falsehood.Let’s remember here that Dave’s wife is suffering with cancer right now. Let’s keep praying and reaching out to Dave and his family with Christ’s love.
admin | November 20, 2009 at 5:29 pm | ReplyDan,I’d like to respond to some of your comments.”Depending on what exactly Dave means in his assertions here, what he said is either true or false.”I don’t believe there is any ambiguity in what he said. He did not leave room for that. By using the term “only” he is not leaving room for any other scenarios.”Satan’s conquests are only successful over ignorant individuals who don’t have the strength or understanding to resist him. Only Christians without complete armor will ever find themselves in this state.”You also said: “Also, we need to remember that Jesus often did not perform many miracles in various places for their lack of faith. Jesus was constantly rebuking people for their lack of faith.”Dave did not even mention faith here. He mentioned ignorance and weakness as the main issues. So this comment does not apply to this conversation.You also said: “Let’s remember here that Dave’s wife is suffering with cancer right now. Let’s keep praying and reaching out to Dave and his family with Christ’s love.”Not really even sure why you included this. I’m sorry Dave’s wife has cancer, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.And, this comment underlies (again) your insensitivity or lack of understanding of what we alumni have gone through.Do you ask a rape victim to make sure she is praying and reaching out to her raper?Ideally, she will come to a point of forgiveness for him. But this takes time.This blog is for and about people who are still in the healing process and may have not yet reached that point. Encouraing them to rush through the process to get to the end is insensitive and/or ignorant.
Dan Hillman | November 20, 2009 at 6:44 pm | Reply“Satan’s conquests are only successful over ignorant individuals who don’t have the strength or understanding to resist him. Only Christians without complete armor will ever find themselves in this state.”I guess it seems to me that it depends on what is meant by “successful.”Was Satan “successul” in “conquering” Job?It depends on what is meant by “conquering” and “successful.”In one sense: Yes, Satan was successful. All his children had died!In another sense: No, Satan was not successful in conquering Job, because Job never gave up his integrity. He stayed true to God.If God allows it, Satan can steal from us, kill us and our loved ones, or destroy us in many ways. But Satan can not ultimately defeat us if we belong to Christ.So, I stand by my assertion that the veracity of Dave’s claim depends on what he meant by “successul” and “conquest.”As for faith, it can be argued that faith, knowledge, strength, and wisdom are all in various ways interconnected. It is true that people who lack certain knowledge and strength may lack such knowledge and strength due to weak or nonexistent faith. It is further true that due a lack of such strength or knowledge, they may be susceptible to one of Satan’s attacks.You said, “Encouraging them to rush through the process to get to the end is insensitive and/or ignorant.”I’m not encouraging anyone to rush through anything. I am encouraging people to commit their way to God, and that does mean forgiving those who have wronged you and loving your enemies. I understand that this is a process, and I am calling on people to commit to the process.Perhaps it is insensitive or ignorant to claim that I’m being insensitive or ignorant. Perhaps.Finally, when criticizing a person, you are not just criticizing one thing about the person, you are criticizing a person. Thus, you should be sensitive to the fact that Dave’s wife is struggling with cancer right now. I don’t understand how that is so hard to understand. And it is certainly not unbiblical to encourage Dave’s critics to keep in mind that his wife is struggling with cancer. I say this as one who believes that Dave needs to be confronted.Finally, as bad as Dave’s sins are, I don’t believe he is as bad as a person who would physically rape a young woman. So, there is a need to maintain a sense of proportion.God bless you.
admin | November 20, 2009 at 7:30 pm | ReplyDan,Your arguments really make no sense to me. On the one hand, you act as though we can’t know the true meaning of someone’s words – and on the other hand, you assume meanings that aren’t stated.I’m done addressing off-topic and non-sensical comments that don’t address the substance of what was clearly stated.And finally, for the record, I wholeheartedly disagree with this:”Finally, when criticizing a person, you are not just criticizing one thing about the person, you are criticizing a person. Thus, you should be sensitive to the fact that Dave’s wife is struggling with cancer right now.”For someone who is offended at having the plain meaning of their words “misinterpeted” you sure have read into what I’ve said. I’ve never criticized Dave’s heart motives, only what HE HAS SAID ON RECORD.Based on all these facts PLUS the fact that you are MUCH more sensitive to Dave’s hurts than the rest of us here, I’ll ask you to refrain from commenting further. That way you’ve gone about it is just not helpful or constructive to this community.
Anonymous | November 23, 2009 at 4:05 am | ReplyHey i am a teen mania intern and i beleive that before criticizing the ha and dave hasz is completely rediculous. It says in the bible if you think you now so much that you should not slander your neighbor and you should respect your authority.I am so enraged that you would take so much time to belittle mr.hasz and the rest of the ha that you have forgotten what the body of christ. i beleive you need to step up be a true person and not some fake name on the internet and you need to follow the rules of confrontation and contact mister hasz yourself. When i was a child i thought like a child when i became a man i thought like a man. Stop thinking like a child and become an adult!!!!!!
Stephanie | November 23, 2009 at 4:22 pm | ReplyAnonymous,I truly mean this in the most sincere way possible, but people are not going to take you seriously when you type like that.That being said, I was an intern a couple years ago, and I was absolutely ENRAGED when I first heard about this blog.How DARE they speak ill of Teen Mania! They must not be a real Christian!But as you read on, you’ll realize that RA is NOT a bitter backslidden heathen, and they are just trying to realign their faith to the WORD. They have stated several times that:1. They HAVE attempted to contact (succeeded?) Mr Hasz several times
2. They are genuinely trying to help others come back to a true doctrine and to break the “performance mentality”Also, one of the most recent blogs is about extending MERCY to Mr Hasz and the leadership at TM. So, kindly avoid jumping to conclusions (let me guess- Mr Hasz told you guys about this blog, and interns came RUNNING to his defense. Right?)I LOVE Mr Hasz. I really do.
Truly. There are few men I respect more.However, not everything he says is true.
Ron Luce either.Jesus was the only perfect example of Christianity (not that you don’t know that, of course ;)).
admin | November 23, 2009 at 9:25 pm | ReplyTo the commenter I just deleted:I have indeed contaced Dave Hasz several times over the years.However, on this blog I am critiquing his TEACHINGS. He has said all these things in a public forum and I am therefore entitled to critique them in public. Matt 18 does not apply here. Read the NT and you will find MANY examples of the disciples AND false teachers being confronted in public. I’m not saying that Dave is or is not a false teacher – just that both scenarios are covered in Scripture.Come back in a few years, I’m sure you’ll have some constructive things to add then.
Anonymous | November 23, 2009 at 9:47 pm | ReplyNo i will not you are nothing but an egotistical person with a huge chip on your shoulder. You just do not want to hear the truth. why dont you come back to me in a few years when you have matured a little and have asked the lord for forgiveness for your slandering tongue and than we will talk. I have wasted enough time on this you are stubborn and pig headed and believe your way is the only way and that is pride my friend lots of pride. and you have a large amount of self pity!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ST.Clair
admin | November 23, 2009 at 9:49 pm | ReplyActually, I’m going to leave this one up St. Clair. Just to show what the Honor Academy produces.
Anonymous | November 23, 2009 at 11:04 pm | ReplyI like how Clair ignores EVERYTHING you said and just goes on about how you’re “pig headed” and “egotistical”.Clair, where is THAT in the Bible? Hun, you’re doing a miserable job of defending your point.Your post speaks for itself.
h. | November 24, 2009 at 12:54 am | Replyslander (noun):
a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: “a slander against his good name”.the definition of “slander” includes three qualifiers–that the words being spoken be malicious, false, and defamatory.addressing the first qualifier–
it may be perceived that this blog be considered malicious, as the purpose is to outline the negative things that occur at the HA. but malice would be driven by spite and bitterness, and truthfully RA talks often of grace and directing concerns and hurts back to the Bible. but it is BECAUSE she has already walked a tough journey and searched out truth on her own that they are able to measure her experience against the Word, and see how little things often tend to measure up.[we should never measure the Bible against our experiences…our experiences are to be measured against the truth and infallibility of the Bible.]second qualifier: falsehood. I think the evidence of so many of us alumni coming together and testifying again and again of our experiences at the HA and the effects they have had on our lives after graduation is enough proof that RA’s statements are not false.third qualifier: that the comments be defamatory. perhaps the posts are injurious to the reputation of the program…but not due to falsehood or malice. Truthfully, if so many of us have such deep-seated concerns and lasting effects from the program, that is something that the HA and its leaders need to take into account and start looking to change things.
h. | November 24, 2009 at 1:01 am | Replyokay so i take back something i said above–
the purpose is NOT necessarily to outline the negative things that happen at the HA. that would be kind of malicious. but it IS to speak openly about things that have happened to us as alumni, and allow us a safe place to discuss said things…and MOSTLY to point us to healing in a biblical, grace-filled way.
h. | November 24, 2009 at 1:04 am | Replyokay, so i take back something i said above. the purpose of this blog is NOT to outline the negative things that occur at the HA, as that would be pretty malicious. but it IS to provide an open, safe environment to discuss our TM experiences, and the effects [both negative and positive] that those experiences have had in our lives as alumni. In so doing, we are pointed on a path to healing in a biblical, grace-filled way.
Anonymous | November 30, 2009 at 3:25 am | ReplyI was an Intern about 12 years ago. I agree with the person who holds this blog. TM and Dave Hasz have no sense of reality. Many of the teachings and beliefs are very cult like.
To all the followers of TM just remember this: Pride comes before the fall. You will eventually see that most of the teachings and the pride that you take with it does not really exemplify the example of Christ but of man.
I challenge those… Perception is reality but may not be the truth. Find the truth and it will set you free.
Anonymous | March 16, 2010 at 8:22 pm | ReplyYou people are all retarded
Nunquam Honorablus | March 16, 2010 at 8:56 pm | ReplyRA, please don’t delete that comment. It is a well thought-out thesis on the behavioral and spiritual patterns of us ex-terns, and a healthy solution to the matter.Anonymous, we may be retarded, but at least we know the proper function of a period.
Shiloh | March 16, 2010 at 9:46 pm | ReplyWow. To all who read that and are hurt. I’m sorry. Yikes. Those are some powerful words Anon.
Watch your words people. You’re dancing on dangerous territory.
All – God LOVES you. And you are one heck of a creation that’s for sure. Made in His image.
Oh if we only knew who we were.
Shannon | March 17, 2010 at 1:20 pm | ReplyI am amazed every day at the malicious things that christians like Clair have to say to those of us who don’t think the same way she does. If her response is supposed to be an example of the love of God, you can keep your God.It is people like her with comments like that, that made be de-convert.
Anonymous | April 3, 2010 at 4:51 pm | ReplyI am also a current intern at the Honor Academy.I want to start off saying that I do to a degree understand where the negativity towards Mr. Hasz and the HA is coming from. The nature of the HA is to be very strict on us and some take it too far. Because of all the rules, I have felt the pressure to be a “perfect intern”. I follow the rules, I became an ACA, I tried to make the most of every opportunity, I received a Carpe Dium award. I say all this because I felt the pressure, not in any way to build myself up. I didn’t finish ESOAL and felt like a quitter and that I should have if I was really trusting God.What I am realizing is that many people including myself go through the internship in the wrong way. We aren’t meant to be cookie cutter versions of Mr. Hasz or Mr. Luce. That is not the purpose for the HA. It is an place to be spiritually supercharged and to seek God’s purpose for us as His children on this earth. It isn’t to go through and be the perfect intern. The rules and teachings are to help build us up. We are meant to critique them, as Dave Hasz tells us openly. We are supposed to analyze the teachings as the Bereans did.I believe that our time at the HA is meant to be over the top so to better develop us for anything we may encounter in the future. I know my life has been changed. I also know that God has not called me to live like an intern for the rest of my life. It is for a season, a season we are meant to embrace.As a side note, Shannon I am so sorry that St Clair’s words hurt you. I am sorry if you have been hurt by Christians in the past. I know you may have heard this before, but as Christians, though yes we are meant to display the love of God, we are not perfect. I know St Clair and guarding his mouth is something he struggles with and is working on. I don’t agree with the way he spoke about this site and its administrator. I also don’t agree with the administrator on this blog as an outlet for the pain he has attained through the HA.Recovering Alumni, may I just ask, how is this helping you? I understand the need for free speech and wanting to warn people about the dangers of a place like the HA. I agree it can be dangerous, if taken out of context and abused. But there are many people, myself included, who have benefited from the HA. I know it is not the only place where people follow Jesus and it isn’t the only way. It is however the outlet through which God has chosen to develop and prepare me. It is not all bad. I feel like your blog has portrayed it this way and I don’t think that’s fair.
gc1998 | April 4, 2010 at 3:48 am | Replyi guess we’ll all take turns…when i was an intern, i thought it was great. my first few years after graduation, i thought it had really helped me.it takes time and maturity and THE REAL WORLD (and more balanced spiritual atmospheres) to get the kind of perspective that has led most of us to the place we are currently…and the feelings we share on this blog.i do not WISH this realization on you several years down the road, but i am quite confident your opinions will be incredibly different in 5-10 years.
Anonymous | April 6, 2010 at 4:00 pm | Replyyou do realize that seeking God and finding him is solely on you. “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” that means we do need to work to get back into his good graces. that being said, he should provide more encouragement and less judgement.also is it possible that when you were seeking God you were seeking him for the wrong reasons, thats why you weren’t getting any answers. God is in all things, therefore no matter where you are he’s there too. so just because you were at HA doesn’t mean he can’t hear you.
Recovering Alumni | April 6, 2010 at 4:01 pm | Reply“We do need to work to get back into his good graces”Is this a joke?? I sure hope you are kidding me! Otherwise, I fear you’ve missed the point of the Gospel….
Anonymous | April 6, 2010 at 4:22 pm | Replyi havent missed anything. maybe the wording is not what im trying to convey but my point is exactly what i meant.i have studied the bible and ill admit that im not the encyclopedia of verse interpretation but from what i understand, being a christian isn’t easy street. its meant to be hard so God can shape us and steer us in the right direction.so whats wrong in saying that we aren’t perfect and that in order for God to acknowledge that we have indeed changed, we need to show him that we are willing to listen and be taught BY HIM.
CarrieSaum | April 6, 2010 at 10:11 pm | Reply@anon:LIFE is hard. God is Love. God is Grace. We are inextricably entwined in Him, in Love, in Grace, regardless of what we do. It is irrevocable.We place conditions on people and our love for them. God does not. My heart aches for you just reading your words. I also wonder what “wrong reasons” there are to seek God? Because ultimately, we seek Him out of desperation…and we are beautiful and loved even in that desperate place. I pray you find your desperation quickly so you can know the vastness of Love.
Josh | April 7, 2010 at 5:33 pm | Replyyour talking to me like i just heard about the bible and jesus. however, i was raised in church and have continued attending all through my life. i know about christ and how he died for all to be saved. also, i’ve gained a hunger to know more about him and the bible.the point i’m trying to make is that some people seek God selfishly. an example is: seeking God for personal gain not growth, praying for help when you know that once things get better your just going to continue sinning, or praying for guidance and wisdom and not listening to it.i’m just trying to say that its possible to be seeking for the wrong reasons and you should evaluate your own motives before blaming an outside source for corrupting your walk with God.
Shannon Kish | April 7, 2010 at 11:58 pm | Reply“the point i’m trying to make is that some people seek God selfishly. an example is: seeking God for personal gain not growth”Isn’t all of our reasons for seeking God selfish? Isn’t God himself selfish?And if our seeking God is not selfish, can you show me how?
KatieNap | April 8, 2010 at 2:09 am | ReplyJosh, this is not an attack against you, but I do have to take issue with this idea of us having to get back into God’s good graces.”All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God” DOES NOT mean that we need to work to get back into his good graces. The rest of the sentence is “and ALL are justified freely by HIS grace, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus”.And the beginning of the Chapter in Romans 3 actually addresses the rest of your comment about seeking God selfishly and for the wrong reasons. It states “there is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.” This is the condition of all of us. God seeks us. Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost (Luke 19), and God, because of his great love for us, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions (Eph 2).This is the amazing kindness and grace of God. I still have a hard time keeping in my mind that is God’s grace and God’s action and God’s faithfulness, not my own, on which salvation rests.”For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure” (Eph. 2:13). And “I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil 1:6). And that makes me thankful. It’s good news for all of us 🙂
katydid | April 8, 2010 at 3:47 am | ReplyAmen to what KatieNap wrote– 🙂
Anonymous | April 18, 2010 at 4:03 am | ReplyI am a former Intern of the Honor Academy. I graduated January Class of 2001. I had a very interesting experience at Teen Mania. It was one of the best years of my life and one of the hardest. I learned so much from the internship that I didn’t realize until a few years later.Teen Mania is a very fast-paced culture. You will be challenged, stretched, critiqued, and pushed to the limits. This is in efforts to pull out what lies inside of you, your potential. Teen Mania is a Ministry that has a foundation that is built upon “ACCOUNTABILITY”. That is meant to challenge us to examine our lives and allow God to “burn the dross” out of it. Read Isaiah 58 which talks about being tried in the furnace of affliction so that you can shine as pure gold.I am not saying that I agree with the statement that only “weak Christians get attacked” (paraphrase) We know that is simply not true. “The enemy cometh not but to steal, kill and destroy, I am come that they might have life and have it more abundantly” (John 10:10)I am so sorry that you were hurt by the leaders of the HA. I sincerely pray for your healing. I do encourage you to release that pain and that hurt. One of the biggest traps of the enemy comes by way of “OFFENSE”. I am currently reading “The Bait of Satan” by John Bevere which addresses this issue. The Bible says to be angry but sin not. This means that when someone wrongs us, we confess that hurt and other emotions that we are feeling but we turn it over to God.When we allow “offenses” to build in our heart, our hearts become hardened and we harbor unforgiveness. While Jesus was on the cross he forgave everybody who had done him wrong, even those who weren’t born yet that would do him wrong in the future.I just asked God to search my heart and show me the people I still need to forgive. He has and I am beginning to feel free. We can’t expect to be treated better than Christ. He was accused, mistreated, spit upon, pierced, whipped, beaten beyond recognition, etc.At the end of the day it is not about who is right or wrong. It is about love and forgiveness. The only church that didn’t get rebuked in Revelation, was the Church of Philadelphia which means “brotherly love”.Again, I pray that all hurting parties would receive healing and release the pain so that you are free to love the way that God loves, unconditionally.I love you allKimberly Matthews-Clarke
admin | April 18, 2010 at 11:42 am | ReplyAnon – Teen Mania is not built on accountability. The leaders are never held accountable for their abusive or toxic behaviors…only the interns are held “accountable.”Also, I’ve addressed the ideas of bitterness and forgiveness here:http://www.recoveringalumni.com/2009/12/why-its-ok-to-be-angry.htmlhttp://www.recoveringalumni.com/2009/12/overcoming-sin-gospel-way.html
Anonymous | April 18, 2010 at 2:45 pm | ReplyThe Bible says to be angry but sin not. Offense that is not properly dealt with leads to bitterness, resentment and hatred. The Bible also says to bless those who curse you, etc.But it also says that in the last days love will grow cold….Love is supposed to be unconditional even when it’s not reciprocated back.
Shannon Kish | April 18, 2010 at 8:48 pm | ReplyThe TM Party line has always been, and I recall a DH teaching on this, that “We do not have the right to be offended.”Offense-something that outrages the moral or physical sensesChristians take offense all the time, as does TM’s leaders and interns- Battle Cry is a perfect example of RL taking offense to the worldly views of others.Non-Christians take offense all the time too. See the thread on the National Day of Prayer for an example.Taking offense to something is not a sin or wrong, and one could argue that it is perhaps something that God would want you to do.
TMgoth | April 20, 2010 at 2:42 pm | Reply“Christians take offense all the time, as does TM’s leaders and interns- Battle Cry is a perfect example of RL taking offense to the worldly views of others.” -I love this statement.It is absolutely true that we aught to be offended at the the things that offend God. Is God not offended and enraged when his children are hurt? (even by the most well-meaning people on the planet)Certainly, God allows all of us to go through adverse situations. Certainly those situations, when properly dealt with, can lead us to greater levels of maturity and strength. But there is a HUGE difference between allowing that life brings incredibly difficult circumstances that we can overcome and use for our benefit, and PROVIDING those adverse circumstances to 18 year-olds who have never been away from their parents before. WHY ON EARTH is it surprising that so many of us had NO IDEA how to handle the things that were thrown at us?Sure, there were plenty of times when God was Screaming in my spirit that X teaching or Y mindset was false. It’s hard to hear him when the spiritual leadership in your life , the people who you trust (at the tender age of 18, or even 17 for me) to teach you sound concepts on how to understand God, how to listen for his voice etc., are the very ones saying X and Y. Then, add to the voice of leadership the hundreds of interns around you, all believing (or seeming to believe) and following the same ideas. Is it any wonder that sometimes the still, small voice of the LORD gets drowned out? Is it any wonder that some of us assume we must be hearing the LORD wrong because so many others are “hearing something different”?Is it on me for listening to men above God? Yes, in a way it is. I should’ve listened to God even when he blatantly contradicted the teachings and mandates of my “spiritual authority.” But, gosh, that’s a confusing process for an 18-year-old, perfectionist, naturally people-pleasing, dying to to the right thing for God kid to wade through? Is it any wonder that I (and others like me) had to deal with offense and bitterness in the aftermath? No, no it really isn’t.
