I have hesitated in writing to you; to be honest what you are doing by creating this blog is scary and very brave at the same time, I believe there are many of us out there reading this blog that are hurting, and have felt alone and crazy since leaving HA. I did move on with my life after leaving, but I have continued to live with an enormous amount of mysterious guilt, and spiritual confusion. Reading your blog has helped more than anything else I have tried over the years, just knowing there are others out there that publicly believe there is something not right out there in Garden Valley’s Teen Mania (just the name should scare you off) has truly helped me with the healing process! Thank you very much for starting what may be the beginning of bringing truth to the damage that is birthed in youth and adults that come out of there!
My Story….Please excuse me if there are some gaps it’s been a few years, and I have tried to block it out! I know I was manipulated through the entire two years. I was raised in church and was considered the little goody goody Christian girl. When I arrived, I wanted to do more for the Kingdom and wanted to do missions and spend a year of my life serving the Lord! I was given what the HA the would call a very esteemed ministry placement. I was put in Dave Hasz’s office as the Graduate Intern financial advisor. It was a strange job, all I did was keep track of who was paying and who wasn’t.
Then one day I found out that they were changing my job, I was going to be the administrative assistant to the women that produced and graded all academic tests that interns take. (I heard later, (still a rumor, but there has to be some truth to it, and will come into play later in my story) it was said… that Dave’s wife came in one day and made an assumption that I was very seductive in my manner, and I was too beautiful for her comforts working so closely in her husband’s office.)
Ok, we will skip a few more months…I developed a very close/best friendship with a second year intern (Ariel) She had started dating a staff member and this was accepted for second years. This staff member lived very close to campus, so Ariel and I spent lots of time off campus with him, and it felt like freedom to me. I didn’t know that leaving that campus was very addictive, but it became that way and every day I left for some reason or not. I could only handle the stress if I could leave for a few hours, getting away was imperative! I didn’t really bond with my core or core advisor, every one always asked me where I was all the time. I was just honest and told them I was with Ariel, she and I were a lot alike and laughed all the time, the three of us – she and her staff member, and I we were very close and trusted each other.
One day, in the Summer of 2003, it was June-ish and I was working at the pool as a life guard for the summer campers. I got a call from the staff member (SM)(he had recently left TM, I thought he quit to focus on school). He invited me to the lake, I said sure I’ll be right over I just finished at the pool and still had my swimsuit on he said “you can’t come over wearing that modest thing you have to change first” so I did and then arrived at his house thinking that Ariel would be there, but she wasn’t. So I asked and he said she was on the way. He told me she was meeting us at the lake and that I should just ride with him over there, I was very nervous, because being alone anywhere with a guy at TM was a sin. I told myself that it would be fine. Then we got to the lake and got in the boat because he told me again that she was coming and we could take it out for a quick spin she would see the truck, and wait for us. I kept saying ok, but inside I knew something wasn’t right, my gut was telling me that my friend was never going to show up, and had never been invited. This was true! And now I’m in the middle of the lake, and he was coming on to me verbally and physically the only word I can use was schmoozing me to do what he wanted. To make the record clear, I was consenting to all the contact that took place, but felt a lot like I was under a manipulative spell. I did ask about my friend and he proceeded to tell me about all the problems they had been having, and that they had broken up. He also said that he has had his eye on me for a long time and was really happy he was free to explore where this was going to go.
I have to remind you that I’m an undergraduate first year intern (not allowed to have any romantic relationship or contact), and he knew it and was still talking to me like this. I was so used to being manipulated by staff members up to this point that one more didn’t take me by much surprise. I gave into the lies, because I was off campus and I felt free. I felt very guilty! We went back to his house and tried to make up a story if anyone should ask me where I was all day. As far as physical contact there was some, but we didn’t go all the way! But as you all know if you touch a guy (back then, I’m not sure if its this way now) it was dismissible, I was very afraid, I crawled back on campus feeling a lot worse about betraying my best friend than getting in trouble!
So a few weeks went by, and I felt like I was carrying an elephant of guilt around every where I went, so I told Ariel one day over lunch. She was stunned. I really hurt my friend, and I’m to this day and forever so sorry! The next day I went to Dave Hasz and told him what happened. Dave slammed his fist on the desk and said “You are the 7th girl in 9 months, he was just fired, and he is still getting to the girls on campus.” You can imagine I felt like I had just been taken advantage of by a TM predator. This was shocking to me, because I trusted all the staff members at Teen Mania, it was like trusting a bunch of pastors walking around! (This is also when I discovered that he had been fired, not quit as he had previously told me.)
I was dismissed from the HA. When I called home with all this news, my parents were so upset that they said I couldn’t come home and I would have to stay with someone else. It was so shameful to me, I stayed with a friend from my high school days! I think Dave felt sorry for me and also respected me for coming to him with honesty, so he told me the day that I left his office, if I ever felt the Lord leading me back to TM I would be welcome.
Tomorrow: Anna’s Return to Teen Mania
60 comments:
First things first It sickens me that a guy did that to you and I just want to hug you after reading this part of the story. That would be the case regardless WHERE this took place. That TM didn’t warn the ladies that this guy was bad news is sick very very sick. That makes me so angry for all of you ladies that he hurt. What’s worse is that he dismissed you for being taken advantage of and lied to? And your parents… This makes me SO./…..VERY…..Angry on your behalf. So many parts of this are so very wrong!
I agree, heartsfire…does it bother anyone else that Anna was the 7TH girl in 9 months and this person was only fired after apparently 7 predatory attempts on the women on campus – I mean, REALLY?
Worse THOSE were just the reported ones. Knowing college age people how many bets that there were like 10 other people who were afraid of being dismissed and the shame that came with it so they never said a word. TM teaches women that they must submit to men, it pushes them to do that in full and then never outs the men who abuse that. Further some in the larger modern evangelical church movement make women feel like their wearing of certain clothes or doing very mundane things is them asking for it. If there is one issue where I feel the entire church has failed it’s this one.
If Teen Mania employed then fired a sexual predator and they house so many young kids don’t you think that some kind of communication like “for your own protection stay away from Mr X” or “report any communication with Mr X to the police”? Once again TM covers up stuff.
Anna hunny…I am so sorry that this ever happened to you in a place that was supposed to be a safe environment for you to grow and experience life without fear of massive worldly influence. I cant believe the negligence of the TM staff to allow one of their men to do this to an intern 7 TIMES!!!! Wasn’t once enough to get that man fired! This thought both enfuriates me and sickens me. And also the fact that they didn’t bring to light to the women somehow that he was preying on the interns is just plain….stupid.
Anna I’m so glad to hear that you are healing through such a traumatic ordeal, and know that you are safe here. Thank you so much for opening up and allowing us to share and aid in that process.
I’m no lawyer, but combining these facts:
1) Hasz knew about it, and
2) Didn’t take action on it immediately, and
3) Didn’t let potential victims know, and
4) Dismissed the girl who got taken advantage of when she told him,
…sounds like an open-and-closed case for a lawsuit or more.
If Hasz knew about it and didn’t respond immediately, then legally as well as morally, it’s his responsibility and his fault.
I believe I know who this staff member is, and if it who I’m thinking of DH knew there were predatory problems associated with ham as far back as ’97. A lot of the girls found him ‘creepy’ though nothing was said beyond rumors and whisperers, and I never heard of him touching a girl. I should be shocked to learn that he went after at least 7 girls, but I’m not, and there no doubt in my mind that, there are more who didn’t speak up.
EPIC FAIL DAVE! To KNOW that there is someone on campus praying on young girls is gross negligence, is it criminal.
Anna – I am so sorry this happened to you. You shouldn’t feel any shame over this, it was 100% his fault. TM should have done a better job protecting you from him – thats their job!
I’m afraid for what comes on tomorrows post.
Let’s be careful of making accusations without facts to back them up…I don’t know, nor does Anna, at which point Dave Hasz became aware of the predatory actions. Its possible they all came to light at the same time, isn’t it? So, I don’t want to accuse him of keeping a predator on staff.
However, once it was known, people definitely should have been warned.
And Phoenix, this predator started as an intern much later than 97, so it wasn’t the same person. However, I have been told other stories very similar to this one, the only thing different was the name of the predator. So, clearly there has been more than one!
And finally – I hate that they dismiss people who are so clearly torn up about their “sin.” What does that accomplish?? Isn’t repentance the point? So why kick them out?
Was this person perhaps Heath Stoner? I know most women find him creepy in that predator/molestor way.
I find myself sitting here after reading Anna’s story plus the comments and hoping…and let me emphasize on the hope part that someone was at least prosecuted. If not that goes way far and beyond the boundaries of negligence regardless of whether all the evidence of someone taking advantage of interns came at the same time. Its still against the law, its still wrong, and it still happened. Its not something that could/can be swept under the rug and just vanish. Because most of the time predators that strike once, strike again, and again, and again until they are stopped. So did DH and TM allow this person to be brought to justice by taking the evidence they had against them forward…or did they sweep it under the rug so that this can happen again to other women. That thought just absolutely sends me into agro rage……..its astounding the lack of brain power they have..
With all this talk about the guy being prosecuted and such.
I do not see anything that this guy did as being illegal. We say kids, but nearly all interns are over 18, so unless he was drugging people or was their direct supervisor there is nothing illegal in his behavior at all from this account.
Everything that was done was consensual.
The man was certainly not a paragon of virtue, but I don’t think that labeling the former staff member as a predator is accurate either.
I want to agree with Philip here that we news to be careful tossing out terms like sexual predator here. What this man did was wrong, no doubt about it. He deliberately caused Anna to violate the HA’s honor code. But we don’t know the level of contact that occurred. Anna said everything was consensual and there was no sex. The reason I bring this up is those who read this blog who didn’t attend HA may not realize ALL physical contact between men and women is forbidden for undergraduates. Anna could’ve been dismissed solely for spending the day alone with a member of the opposite sex. Any benign touching is also against the rules. This includes an arm around the shoulders, a hand on a leg, and hand holding. All of these would be grounds for dismissal but not something that would cause us to label someone a sexual predator in the real world if the contact was consensual. That being said, I feel TM could’ve been more lenient since they exposed her to this guy and they definately should’ve made it known he was fired for inappropriate (at least by TM standards) behavior with interns.
Ok I should explain where my thoughts on him being a predator come from. And no I did not call him a rapist or anything. If a man convinces a girl to go out to a boat under false pretenses and does things that even in hind-site made her uncomfortable, If said man has done things to multiple women while also having a relationship or fling with another woman this person has a predatory personality. While it was no way hinted that he was a rapist he did exude predatory behaviors by tricking her into coming out to a boat under false pretenses. Women at the HA are taught to deffer to men on many things so her squashing her inner voice telling her he may not be up to any good is a very normal thing for an intern. If similar things (and we are not in any way saying sexual assault although we are saying similar in a predatory manor) were being done to the other 6 then YES word should have been stated to the over 300 women on campus that this man was a problem. Predator may not = Rapist but actions such as the ones he exhibited are predatory and do warrant the term predator being used in relationship to him.
Using lies to lure vulnerable young women into a physical relationship? Over and over again?
Yep, thats a predator.
Some of it depends on what the definition of a predator is.
By some definitions, a man who goes to parties to hook up with women is is displaying predatory behavior(in which case, I would wager at minimum 25% of college students, male and female are predators).
In my eyes, to label someone a predator requires something more sinister than that. I do not know if this guy was intentionally setting up multiple women at once or whether he was simply attracted to every woman in sight and acting on it.
I don’t know the details of the guy and so it is difficult to label him a predator.
he could very well just be a guy in his early 20s with no self restraint and chasing after every woman he sees. Is it possible that he could be a predator? Yes, it is, but based on the story I see nothing even close to definitive.
From humanresources.about.com:
“In harassment, as well as in other law suit-engaging topics, as an employer, demonstrating that you took appropriate steps is crucial. In fact, demonstrating that you took immediate action and that the consequences for the perpetrator were severe, is also critical. And, the front line leader is usually the person initiating and following through on those steps, so they have to feel confident about what they are doing. Any form of harassment can create a hostile work environment including sexual harassment and how it is addressed. The court’s definition of what constitutes a hostile work environment has recently expanded to coworkers who are caught up in the situation, too.”
The man was a staff member, she was an intern. (insert Bill Clinton reference here)
When a someone in a supervisory role does something like that, they are opening themselves up to liability – period. (In this case, he had already been fired, but the girls before would have been able to prosecute.)
He’s a creep and a predator.
TM’s permanent dodge is that these aren’t employees, they are volunteers. I’m sure their sleazy lawyers will find a way to get them off again.
If the man was not a supervisor of the women he was pursuing and if the behavior happened outside of the actual work place, there is nothing illegal in his behavior. Distasteful, yes. Illegal, no.
There have certainly been staff members who were never in a supervisory position.
Do we know that this guy was a supervisor to any of the girls he was pursuing?
There are lots of assumptions going on here.
Hey Philip E, TM/HA staff labeled me a predator because I had a relationship with a girl on campus. This was noted in my file, which after my dismissal, TM/HA MOB staff sent to a church where I was wanting to work as a youth leader.
The term predator does NOT have to reference, according to TM, ANYONE who is in a supervisory position. To them it’s any MALE who has a relationship with someone of the opposite gender while one or both of them are on campus, and it violates the rules.
Josh,
First off, I should say that I think TM was incorrect to have labeled you as such, and plain in the wrong for sending that to anyone.
That said, it IS possible to be a predator when not in a supervisory position. It is NOT possible for it to be considered sexual harassment in any legal sense if you were not in a supervisory position over that person and if whatever happened in the relationship happened outside of the workplace.
I wouldn’t call him a predator, remember he had been in a serious relationship with my best friend for many months, and i think it was approved by the leadership (I’m not sure why) unless they didn’t know about the girls before me till later, it was all handled in a quiet way, he was in his early 30s and I do know he was fired before the day on the boat I just don’t know how long before I was also told later by Dave that he had been asked to stay away from campus. When I was in the meeting with Dave he did say under his breth “how can I protect interns when he lives so close and has so many connections here?” to my knowlage there were still staffers calling him and needing him to answer questions about how to operate, train people, and fix problems regarding computer program he built.
As far as the contact we had there was allot it was my first sexual experience of my life, and I was 20 years old! Let me be frank there was no intercorse, but use your imagination, there was many other actions that took place, and all was being initiated by him…because hello, I didn’t know what I was doing, I was being taught. I have terrible memories of being afraid and nervice, to this day I don’t know what made me participate.
I do know that TM did handle it when they found out about girls before me, I don’t know there stories and sometimes I wish I did! I’m not sure they knew I was friends with him along with my girlfriend I really tried to fly under the raider! I don’t blame Dave for not protecting me, but my friend defiantly should have told me the truth about why he was not working for TM anymore and why he was fired, she was hiding things too about what was going on in there physical relationship, maybe she was trying to protect me I’m not sure.
I don’t think I should have been dismissed, there were alot of facts that played into the whole thing that could have been closely evaluated, i wasn’t given the chance to prove my heart and share my repentance with anyone but Dave… Thank you all for you comments and support! It means more that you know, I wish I could see some of your faces after I read all these comments of love and concern!
He was a ministry placement supervisor to my friend Ariel, in her first year and most of her second before he was fired! She worked under him directly same department and office aria. I’m sure this is how they got to know eachother so well!
With those additional facts, I would state that the assumptions appear to be correct.
I would consider that he is a probable sexual predator and that he did commit sexual harassment.
A man in his early 20s chasing after every young woman he sees is one thing. A man in his 30s doing the same thing is something completely different.
Anna,
I’m sorry you went through all that crap as well. People are just terrible sometimes.
Anna, I’m so sorry to hear the additional details of your story. That man’s behavior was so wrong and even though you consented to what happened, he was taking advantage of you!!! Thank you for your bravery in sharing your story. I hope you find support and healing here!
Hey Anna, you were in my year 🙂
I’m glad you found this place. I hope that you feel welcome here.
julie, define “consent” in the context of how TM teaches women to comply with a man. It isn’t consent in the eyes of a counsellor or a person who actually knows how TM works inside. If you are continually taught to follow what a man says to do it isn’t consent. Look at the soldiers in Hitler’s army. They knew it was wrong but they weren’t held responsible legally or morally because of the madness of their leader and the massive brainwashing that they endured to go along with it.
Its also interesting to note that they never told any of the girls on campus to stay away from this guy, even when they had full information about how he was routinely taking advantage of interns. And on top of it, Anna and maybe the other girls, were dismissed for being taken advantage of.
Contrast that with Hannah’s story from last week where they made her get up in front of the entire internship to not only apologize for going on the news, but to do a Q and A about me and what a terrible person I am. The entire internship was thus warned to stay away from me – and of course Hannah was given a free plane ticket to return to the HA.
Quite a contrast, wouldn’t you say?
Mouse, let me clarify that I only brought up the consent issue because Anna emphasized it in her story. After she provided additional details it was clear this guy knowingly and intentionally took advantage of her. What I inarticulately tried to express to Anna is that even if she believed she “consented” or was a willing participant in what happened, she was actually being taken advantage of by this person and should not feel guilty because she didn’t stop him. Her description of her feelings: knowing it was wrong, uncomfortable, nervous, etc. indicate that she actually was NOT a willing participants in what happened. Anna, if you feel guilty, shameful, or partial responsible for what happened to you because you didn’t say no or run away from the situation, please know you were being manipulated by someone who knew full well what he was doing. You don’t have to be ashamed and what happened was not your fault. Sorry I didn’t express myself clearly before.
I don’t have time to read all the comments but I wanted to just say the thing about feeling manipulated by staff members that you weren’t even surprised by what he was doing.
Just reading that part of the story I can relate to you feeling that way. It was so NOT YOUR FAULT.
I’m serious.
Let that sink in.
It. Was. Not. Your. Fault.
It would be very easy to think it was because you concented (or at least a two way street). But really, at T.M. in a very creepy way interns do what staff members tell them too and don’t really think to do otherwise because they really trust them even if they don’t like the way it feels.
It happens ALL THE TIME. I’m not sure if it’s mostly with girls. or if guys feel the same way.
And – Staff members often will make interns go against what they are told to do at the H.A. and interns will do it. Shows that #1- those staff members are manipulative and definitely don’t practice what they preach.
And #2- they are probably just following their own leadership the way they were taught. Circle of abuse.
Anna,
I’m sorry you had a run in with this guy and that it didn’t end well. He was a smooth talker and had a lot of people fooled into thinking that the rules didn’t apply to him, and that that was cool. He was an asshole, and I wish someone like myself would have stepped in to warn you of his devious behaviour.
For all of you that are speaking of lawsuits and public announcements, you’re a bit misguided. As Josh said, you can’t simply go around labeling people as predators and announcing to the public that they’re a sexual threat to women, especially given the fact that his encounters were consentual. That is as much grounds to be called abuse as Anna’s story (Abuse is abuse, whether you’re staff or an intern). We could just as easily see his story on here talking about how he sought help and was simply given a book and then shamed into never speaking of it again.
TM fired him and banned him from campus. If interns were leaving campus to meet up with him privately, they can’t stop that. If that had happend I imagine all you naysayers would be shouting abuse in the name of “controlling friendships” and “imprisoned on campus”.
I worked with this guy for 2 years, and there’s no way around the fact that he was a liar and a manipulator. But rarely do people set out to be evil. If you feel you can heap condemnation on him for his sins, then I hope you’ve never sinned yourself. Christ’s transforming power isn’t in sorting the bad from the good, but in transforming the bad into the good! If you were to put the same energy into embracing people in their hurts as you do accusing individuals or organizations of their wrongs, this fight would be won much faster, and with much less collateral damage.
As messed up as this guy may be, he isn’t any less deserving of your love and grace than Anna is, and in fact may be in more desperate need of it.
Woah there, Ian. I don’t think anybody here is trying to heap condemnation on him. But actions have consequences. And he was in a place of authority over naive, vulnerable women. (Whether or not he he was directly supervising them, he was a staff member. And that has a lot of weight on campus.)
If Teen Mania can warn interns to stay away from me, someone who is not molesting anyone, then I can think they should have the balls to protect women from someone who clearly has predatory issues.
Is there healing and restoration for this guy? Absolutely, if he wants it. And if he reached out for help and was rebuffed, then thats more shameful behavior by TM. But that doesn’t change Anna’s story and the fact that she was made to feel guilty about something that wasn’t really her fault.
Wow, Ian if I ever had any respect for you as a human being you lost it right there!
“Consent” given under duress is sexual assault in Texas and 36 other states including all three of the other ones I have resided in. So frankly your argument that TM couldn’t tell the ladies on campus to stay away from someone who was Coercing interns into sexual encounters is a lie and quite frankly sick beyond measure!
Does he deserve prayers YES everyone does does he deserve hope for true salvation you bet your sweet bippy but does he deserve more than that from any woman who could have potentially been in his path specifically when it is in the nature of 18-22 year old women to be to afraid to tell because of the consequences as a mental health professional the only thing I can say he needs is a good week or two in sex addiction rehab.
Well and heres my problem with the whole thing…how do we know that all of the women that we’re “dealt with inappropriately” (for lack of better terms) we’re an adult?? I had several members of my dorm as well as core that we’re 17. Just because someone is at TM doesn’t always mean their an adult.
And heartsfire you go! I agree wholeheartedly.
Whoa now. Losing respect for someone as a human being is emotional talk. Step back from the situation for a minute, heartsfire.
Heartsfire,
The term “under duress” means that it is under a threat or forcible confinement.
I don’t see anything in these stories that would indicate that the man ever did anything that fit that criteria.
An example of something done under duress would be someone making the threat of do (blank) with/for me or you will be fired.
Manipulation doesn’t really seem to fall under this category.
I would say that what he did is damaging to other people, and that it is not at all a good thing for him to do, but I don’t think that anyone could get sexual assault to even come close to sticking.
He might be able to be indicted for sexual harassment as he was dating someone who he directly supervised, but even that is kind of sketchy due to the fact that she was a volunteer worker.
I do find it interesting that the people who seem to be arguing for a more lenient understanding of the man’s actions are all guys. And those that are arguing for a more strict interpretation are generally women.
At the end of the day, lets not get hung up on how to label this guy’s behavior.
Clearly, what he did was WRONG and clearly the way she was treated in the aftermath was also WRONG. Thats all that really needs to be said.
Hmmm…to me, all of this goes back to why was a guy like this working form TMM’s in the first place? They seem so good at pointing out all the “character flaws” in all their interns, guess their not so good at seeing them in their staff… I agree with Ian, it seems like this person is in need of some healing himself before he has any business leading others.
Consent =/= not saying no.
Consent = saying yes.
If consent is not given (and yes, I mean explicitly given, whether through wholehearted participation OR wholehearted verbal agreement), then we’re looking at a situation in which the perpetrator was being predatory. If sex is involved, and there is no consent, then it’s rape.
That said, sex is not involved in this story, so the terminology is problematic. However, the point remains: if someone pursues a sexual encounter with someone who does not or cannot consent, then it’s predatory behavior.
It’s not manipulation. It’s not seduction. It’s sexual misconduct.
I shouldn’t have said that sex is not involved in the story. I should have said sexual intercourse is not involved. Obviously it was a sexually charged situation.
Anna thank you for sharing your story. We have all suffered similar hurts even if they were caused by different circumstances. Betrayal by those that you thought you could trust cuts deep. I stand with you and say “Me too. That’s me in that story. The events were different, and I tell it with a different voice, but the hurts are the same.”
When you decide to separate people from their family, promote isolation and the idea that no one else understands you – you are operating like a cult and brainwashing, regardless of your beliefs. When you promote secrecy, particularly from loved ones and family – you have taught that no one can be trusted. Then when you punish for telling the truth – you have now created a quasi-society which feeds on fear, secrecy and blind devotion – also known as the way to run a cult, regardless of beliefs. And you have created a way of life for people that forces them to ignore the competence and guidance that God endowed in them. This leads people to either be abusers or abused, and sometimes both.
@Anonymous 12:01 – Wow, thank you for writing that brief, lucid analysis. “You have [been] taught that no one can be trusted.” I don’t think that I have viewed my experience with the HA or TM in that light before, and that statement alone is very powerful to sit with. Especially when you add the next part about then being punished for telling the truth.
I have to agree more with Philip E on this one and I’m a girl.
Yes, what I think he did was a slime ball move. Did he deserve to get fired? hell yes. Were the girls involved a little naive (I say that in the kindest way possible. We were all a little naive at one point though. I just hope that most of don’t have to pay for it? Probably. It’s truly unfortunate that they were taken advantage of by him, and I’m in no way saying that they are 100% completely responsible. No way. I think that TM should have been up front about this situation and offered guidance and counseling for all the girls that were involved. I think the best way to keep this situation from happening again would be to inform and teach girls about protecting themselves from potential predators in the HA and AFTER intern life. I mean, isn’t that why the HA is around? To prepare the generations to go out in the world? What better way then to teach young, beautiful, godly girls how to fend off the creepers. It’s unfortunate fact of life that people like this guy exist and I’m truly grateful that the situation didn’t escalate and turn for the worst.
Oh And Dave Hasz is also a slime ball for dismissing the girls who were taken advantage of especially if they were up front about everything and broken hearted. For shame Mr. Hasz.
Recovering Alumni
‘If Teen Mania can warn interns to stay away from me, someone who is not molesting anyone, then I can think they should have the balls to protect women from someone who clearly has predatory issues.” This is what you said I do not agree with this at all and I am not a guy. Anna clearly stated it was all consensual so she was never molested. Why would you even make such an accusation, especially one that can wreck a guy’s life for ever? I am not defending him at all what so ever and I want that to be very clear. I do believe he was in the wrong way more than she was but they both made a mistake. Just as Anna deserves forgiveness He dose as well. I don’t even know the guy and I feel so bad that every one is on this sit bashing him like really WTF? RA I really like you and respected you as a person and this site has helped me a lot but now I am not sure how I feel about you as a person. Why would you falsely accuse someone of such a Hanes crime? Please just help me understand where you are coming from?
Recovering Alumni
The definition of molesting: to make annoying sexual advances to; especially: to force physical and usually sexual contact on. Maybe you should look it up before you start to accuse someone of doing something that you do not even know what it means. This is a serious matter nothing to be taken lightly or to be falsely accusing someone of doing such a thing.
Anna
That man’s behavior was UNEXCEPTABLE and so demented and just jacked up. I know in your story you said you consented but Anna that man took advantage of you big time. I am so sorry to hear about what happened to you and how Davie aka jerk face dismissed you that’s so messed up. You did the right thing by telling the truth but you were treated as if you were the one who was manipulating and taking advantage of people. Just know that you are loved and that this sit is a great tool for healing. I was an intern in 2010 and I got dismissed you may have read my story. With the love of our father Hannah girl if you ever need anything at all just have RA give you my contact info.
Anonymous – I think there are a couple issues at play here.
Was the contact truly consensual?
I do not believe it was. The man lied to get her alone on a lake with no means of escape. That right there tells me that he knew she would not willingly consent in a normal situation. The entire time her gut was telling her something was wrong and she was uneasy – again, that does not tell me that she was willingly consenting. She may not have protested and made a scene – but there are lots of psychological reasons at play here that would have prevented such a thing.
Perhaps I could have chosen my words more carefully, but I never accused him of molesting anyone. What I said was that I have never molested anyone. But I see where that could be confusing. What I did say is that he has predatory issues.
I hope that clears things up. Let me know.
OK – there are like a million bunny trails just on this one post. 🙂
I’d like to say I think that RA hit the nail on the head when she said that she is surprised that they didn’t warn the girls on campus to stay away from him. Honestly, I have been in “family meetings” that were called just to say they were excommunicating a former alumnus and tell us not to have any communication with them.
I think Teen Mania didn’t want it to get out because they believed that there was at least some level of impropriety and that they could be legally pursued (remember, we are hearing one girl’s story … there are others … and from what I remember hearing, they didn’t make it out as well as Anna).
WHAT!!!
They really had family meetings to excommunicate alumni? Really? That I didn’t know. Good move from the cult playbook TMM.
I didn’t know they had “family meetings” to excommunicate alumni either. What else don’t we know?!
Gracemakesfree…
I didn’t know this about family meetings, are you sure we are talking about the same guy, did you know about my story before you read it? Will you please email me with more information about the situation I really want to know what went on in this meeting?
lol…who is Future Cult Leader? this better not be my boyfriend, the teasing has to stop!
I am not your boyfriend Anna. You know who I am now. 🙂 He sounds funny though.
gracemakesfree does make a good point when she says that they had family meetings about alumni who had been “excommunicated” from TMM. When I was dismissed, my core was told no contact with me. I was also BANNED from all TM events, as well as from campus. Granted, last year both Heath and Dave rescinded the ban, but it was in place for 10 years, and same with the no communication order, not that they actually listened.
Wow, Josh Ex-Intern 00-01 … you were banned from TM events and campus for 10 years? That’s ridiculous … How did you find out that you weren’t banned anymore? Did they send you a “You’re Forgiven – Welcome Back to the Family Letter”???
They really think too highly of both themselves and their ministry.
gracemakesfree, I had contacted Heath and Dave about them being removed from my FB page, and when I told them both why I was still hurting from them, they both said that the ban was the result of an overly zealous assistant DI, and that I was welcome on campus at any time.
i just don’t understand why this staff member still has not been named! in all other stores i’ve read on here, the names of interns/GI’s have been concealed, but the staff members names have been given. Why is this person being protected?? That’s just bizarre! If he is this “dangerous” to naive women, shouldn’t we all know his name? I also am suspicious if it was the same male staff who clearly hit on me my undergrad yr, although i was smart enough to tell him bluntly his actions were unacceptable and it never went any further than him giving me gifts, poems, and singing me songs on his guitar. (weird!!)
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