The Prodigal’s Father vs Dave Hasz

You should read “The Prodigal God” by Tim Keller. I think you’d be interested in his take on the older brother. You get a good idea of it here: http://theprodigalgod.com/pdfs/The-Prodigal-God-Excerpt.pdf

That is so true!

I sat on the Honor Council and I hated it. I was very disengaged during the process because I didn’t feel I had the right to determine someone else’s fate at the HA.

There is no room for error. There is no room for mistakes. What kind of message does this send?

I thank God for Jesus and that TM does not have a Heaven to kick me out of. Well they have a HA to kick me out of.

It was always creepy when someone would be dismissed, three of my roommates went before the Honor Council and 2 were sent home. At least with the roommates they got about 2 minutes to say goodbye before disappearing. When someone (not in my room) got dismissed they just disappeared. For a few months at the beginning of my internship they would flash their name up during chapel and announce they were gone. After the first few months though they stopped and people would just “disappear” without any comment. It was truly sometimes like living in a sci-fi horror movie.

Not like living in community with brothers and sisters who cared for one another at all.

I was one of those who “disappeared.” the decision to send me home came a few days before everyone was supposed to leave on a retreat, but they deliberately waited to do it until right before everyone was going. I was simply not on the bus. When they got back I and all of my things were gone. I felt like Jimmy Hoffa or something.

Do they still forbid people from contacting those who leave (either voluntarily or not)? It’s my opinion that this is mostly to keep you from hearing their side of it.

I WAS SENT HOME, I WAS THERE FOR 5 INTENSE MONTHS, DID NOT BREAK ANY CODES. THOUGH WAS DEALING WITH SOME FEAR AND DID NOT EVEN GO BEFORE THE COUNSEL. I WAS SO BROKEN AND DEPRESSED ABOUT THAT I HEARD VOICES TELLING ME TO DRIVE INTO A TREE AND KILL MYSELF SO THEY WOULD REMEMBER ME. I WAS CONDEMNED BY MY RA FOR THINGS LIKE TALKING TO MY BROTHER CORE, AND LOOKED AT IN AN EVIL WAY WHEN WERE REQUIRED TO FAST FOR 3 DAYS AND I HAD TO TAKE ANTIBIOTICS FOR LYME’S DISEASE, THEN SHORTLY AFTER I CAME DOWN WITH ANEMIA. THEY PUSHED US TO FAR, NOT TEACHING US THAT FAITH IN JESUS GIVES US GRACE TO SALVATION.

I was dismissed right before January graduation. The reason i was dismissed was bc the DD didnt care about me. I went to her hurting, and she brushed me off. I didnt get a honor counsel case, they brought me in right before dinner and told me i had to be off campus. Once i got home, i completely shut down. not bc i didnt know how to function, but bc the hurt of the “staff” was alot to handle. My mom even called Mr. Clay and talked to him, and he lied to her with my DD in the room. I later texted my DD and she apologized for not caring. She was too busy to care since she was over 34 other girls. My CA said she was too scared to get involved in our lives. Thank God for my AP. Ppl keep asking if im going back, but i wont. I know they will be out to get me, and be looking for ways to “get arid of me” as soon as they can.

I was kicked out also, for depression and suicidal thoughts. I live very far away and could not get a flight for two weeks but did they let me stay….no. I am guessing they would have turned me out on the streets if one of my core-mates had not found a friend who would let me stay. They lied to me the entire process but that is another story.

What is funny is that everyone else that I know, never had this problem. And im not a alumni nor am i an intern. But i know several people who are and who have been. Do you ever relise that some people make mistakes? Well, I have been reading this site and I know most of what is on here isn’t always true. And you have to relise that their past doesn’t define them. How would you feel if the HA was critising you all day long? Because of things you did in your past.. take a step back and look at who should be the only one judging..

Father, I thank you for each individual that is on this site. They are here for a reason. I pray that you heal them in any way possible and make them new. Father I ask that you mend their hearts. I pray that there is freedom. In your name Amen.

Im praying for each and every one of you. God Bless you all!

Really Nicole? You weren’t there you just know some people who where there like maybe a dozen out of thousands and you can’t fathom that these more than 70 stories are true? Granted you can’t even use spell check to type realize correctly so I suppose you checking your sources with those who say they had a decent time would be too much to ask. Yes that may sound harsh, however what you don’t understand is that the HA does criticize (yes you spelled that wrong too) us because what we are saying is true. I know a girl that is there right now, sadly even in the positives she highlights, she has shown that many of the abusive practices are still greatly in effect. I am glad she has found more of God there but because she was ready for that she would have done so working in her church just as easily as she did in the Honor Academy without the after year drop. This isn’t something done in the past it’s something that continues even when people have positive experiences they are having issues with what right now seem like smaller things that will be huge later. I thank you for your prayers, though if you really want to pray for us perhaps you should pray for the lady who married another intern only to find him emotionally or physically abusive, or the girl who got an eating disorder because of Dave’s actions toward women and pray that she finds that healing and that he is not allowed to make those comments again. We are here for reasons. Many of us are still here now because we do not want to see others hurt as badly as we have been and yet year after year we still see the evidence that such practices are continuing.

Nicole, yes, help me understand why you are calling hundreds of people liars and dismissing the abusive behavior of an organization you’ve never been involved with? Bizarre.

“I know most of what is on here isn’t always true…” And how do you know that?

“How would you feel if the HA was critising you all day long? Because of things you did in your past.. ”

Actually, I can imagine that scenerio quite well, because that was how the internship played out for many of us; constant judgment and criticism (much of it for things we did in the past), harsh discipline for minor mistakes, ceasless supervision (someone always looking over your shoulder and/or listening in on your conversations), the fear/expectation of being confronted for faults/mis-steps perceived by your peers… oh yeah, I’ve “felt” it from the HA. At the time, I was told I needed to go through a “breaking down” process so that god could “build me back up”, so I embraced the sharks in the water for the good of my soul (I was one of the chosen “elite”, how could I not?).

Cult, Cult, Culty-cult. Or – if you wont cencede to that – I will also accept gross Spiritual Abuse.

I suppose you mean well, Nicole, but it is not really helpful for people like you to come on this site and spew god babble at people who are seriously trying to work through some bad experiences. In fact, it could add to people’s sense of alienation because they may feel that you are just another Christian who doesn’t really understand.

“Actually, I can imagine that scenerio quite well, because that was how the internship played out for many of us; constant judgment and criticism…”

My GOD. That’s the first thing I thought when I read her comment. Yes, I can imagine what that feels like. Only I had to make sure I received the criticism, negativity and condemnation WELL… or I wasn’t teachable.

I still struggle with the constant criticism I received at the HA. I know full well what it is like to be criticized for my past and present, thanks to the Honor Academy.

Nicole, I hope you will discover the error in your comments towards this community.

Nicole — Looks like you touched a nerve! I do have to wonder what you were hoping to accomplish by showing up and saying, in effect, “Well, based on my limited secondhand experience, you’re all lying about your extensive firsthand experience, and it happened in the past so nobody should care about it anyway, but I’m praying for you so that’s all right then!”

I also wasn’t an intern or an alumnus, but I have definitely seen what this post describes at Teen Mania, both in the past (long before this blog ever started) and continuing unabated to the present. I even wrote an article about it a few months ago: Ashamed of the Gospel? A Case Study of Teen Mania and Works-Based Doctrine.

The fact is that Teen Mania’s past does define them — As Jesus said, “By their fruits you shall know them” — unless and until they repent and renounce their past actions and teachings. Although TM says that “changes have been made,” this hasn’t been one of them. (In his video announcing the name change of ESOAL to PEARL, for instance, Dave Hasz said “We are retiring with honor the name ESOAL”– not what he’d have said if he was genuinely repentant about the abuse that occurred under that name.) Those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

On the bright side, you’re included in your own prayer– everyone who visits this site is here for a reason. For most people, the reason is seeing the truth about Teen Mania’s false and ungodly behavior past and present, and thus finding freedom from HA’s “criticizing them all day long.” How about you?

“Only I had to make sure I received the criticism, negativity and condemnation WELL… or I wasn’t teachable.”

Excellent point, Jami. I wonder what we will find if we hold up the mirror of the way that interns are expected to respond to criticism to the response of TMM to the criticism of former interns and the media (apparently, by trying to delete the “controversy” section of their Wikipedia page.

I watched one of my fellow interns go through the humiliating and purgatory like process of probation. I broke a rule on Christmas vacation and even though I knew no one would ever find out, I decided the honorable thing to do was to let the leadership know. So I met with my leader and David H. and let them know I was leaving due to my breaking of the contract. (As a side note, my action wasn’t a “sin,” outside the internship, just an action that was not allowed of interns). They let me know that I could go on probation, but I declined. It was the best decision of my life. Seriously.

WOW, I AM SO SORRY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL OF YOU. I KNOW WITH GOD’S HELP ALL OF YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY TO RECOVERY. BLESSINGS TO ALL OF YOU! SO GLAD THAT YOU REALIZE THAT JESUS IS NOTHING LIKE THE “LEADERS” OF THIS ORGANIZATION.

I was in the Honor Academy a number of years ago and actually had one of my roommates become an atheist about 3 months into the program. As you can guess he was “Dismissed” immediatley.

I was a intern in 1998 and was there for one 6 monthes before I was what they called BV. I have to say my experience was not the best in the world. At that time they did not give you a opption on staying or not I was taken off campus within hours. I guess that is what i get for trusting in those who they put in autority. I know I had done wrong I ask for forgivness and there was none there. I have really not able to get over that. And honestly have never been able to get back where I know I should be with God as far as church and things go. There is always something in the back of my head saying don’t trust anyone and open up and talk about everything that i need to.

Our son was kicked out of Teen Mania when he was only weeks from graduating. His story is much like many of yours on this site. He’s been asked to post before but has chosen not to. I’m guessing because he’s tried to put it all behind him. Problem is, he can’t! I respect his wish to move on, but I want to share how that affected our family from my point of view as his mother.

I would need to be able to share it in “MY Story.”