Many interns have complained about Ron Luce’s sex teaching which includes the ideas that oral sex is wrong, lingerie is wrong and missionary position is the only correct way to have sex. (Yes, he is actually serious.) In the past, Dave Hasz has responded by saying that Ron is just giving his personal convictions, not saying that his views are Scriptural. However, according to this recording from 2001, Ron starts this talk by saying:
@ 1:00 – We are going to talk about God’s idea of intimacy in marriage.
Throughout the class, he continues to preach as if all of these ideas are God’s truth and not just his personal conviction. Sadly, nearly all of Ron’s teaching is based on using guilt and fear to motivate his audience. On top of that, there are so many nonsensical ideas that one post can’t do it justice. Instead of critiquing every line, here are a few things that jumped out at me.
Ron starts out with his famous passion button teaching. He says there is a passion button inside of us and we shouldn’t let anyone push it except our spouse. He goes on for a while about this.
I actually do think he makes some helpful points about protecting yourself here, but they are mixed with some unhelpful ideas as well. Personally, I think that instead of creating a mythical passion button, it might be more helpful to explain to the interns how hormones and sex drive actually works. There is no reason to be afraid of that information and it would actually arm them with the ability to understand what is going on in their bodies.
The other problem I see with this teaching is that Ron acts like we always have a choice about when our “passion button” is pushed. Let’s just get in reality here – if you live in America, you are going to see things that will turn you on. Heck, even if you don’t live in America. It’s just a fact of life for anyone who has experienced puberty. Instead of making people feel guilty about ever feeling sexually turned on, it would be better to help them recognize their sexuality as a gift from God and not something to be ashamed of.
@ 30:42 – And so what I’m saying is this – this is both for ladies and for guys: You need to be the one that keeps turning your spouses head. Not because you are trying to compete with the world but because why? Because you respect yourself. You take care of yourself, you know, whether that is your weight, whether that is your hair, whether that’s your clothes. Don’t be a slob and say, “Well you gotta stay married to me! What’s wrong? How come you are looking at all those porn magazines? How come?”
Well…And that doesn’t justify somebody looking at porn, but I’m just saying that you ought to respect yourself enough and your spouse and say, you know what? I’m gonna take care of myself because I want to look good for them.
Ok, wow. Really, Ron? Let’s start with the nonsensical (or ill-explained) question and answer.
Q – Why should you want to be the one to turn your spouses head?
A – Because you respect yourself.
That doesn’t even make sense to me but maybe I’m dense.
Second, even though he tried to take it back, he acted like a woman can’t be mad at her husband for using porn if she is not keeping herself beautiful.
WHAT?!
For all of his talk about not being like the world and doing marriage and sex God’s way – this sure does seem like a very “worldly” idea!
Not surprisingly, he talks about sex from a man’s perspective (Be pretty, woman!) but fails to give a woman’s perspective.
@ 36:30 – Sexual intimacy outside of marriage always breaks trust. If you have sex before marriage, you’ll never have full trust in your partner. You’ll be suspicious that they are cheating on you for the rest of your lives. It doesn’t matter what you do or how much you forgive.
That sex before marriage breaks trust might be true in some cases, but it’s not fair to apply it as a blanket statement. First of all, it’s not in Scripture, so why is he teaching it? Second, its not even sound advice. There are PLENTY of Christian couples that had sex with each other before marriage and it has not affected their trust in each other. Third, building our lives on guilt and fear based motivation instead of a love for Jesus and others is very dangerous. Its the difference between shifting sand and a rock.
And what about when trust is broken? What about forgiveness, grace and reconciliation? Those don’t apply if you do a really “bad” sin? Give me a break.
@ 39:43 – So what I always tell people if they ever say, “Well, we’ve blown it, we’ve had sex but we still want to get married.” I say, “Break up.” ….What you’ve told me by your sexual involvement is that you are not mature enough for a romance….you have not learned how to exercise self control…you shouldn’t be thinking about a romance. You should be thinking about your own character and your walk with God….After you break up for a while and spend time with God, then see if God will draw you back together.
@ 41:30 – Some people say, “Well, that’s too radical.” Well, if you don’t want a wholesome marriage, then you don’t have to do it this way.
Apparently, Ron thinks his advice is better than the Apostle Paul’s. Paul said the exact opposite – he told the unmarried that if they can’t control themselves that they should marry.
I Corinthians 7:8-9
Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
@ 57:00 – You need to get whole in your heart (from sexual abuse) before you’re married. Its imperative…You definitely can’t get married with that.
Really? I haven’t been sexually abused but I imagine that a husband or wife could be an integral part of healing from sexual abuse. How can Ron say this with a straight face, especially since he has 2 psychology degrees?
I would imagine that people who have been sexually abused already struggle with not feeling good enough, with feeling like damaged goods – and now telling them that they can’t get married until they are “fixed” just reinforces that! Yes, seek healing – but healing comes through relationships. Not just fasting in the back forty, Ron.
@ 58:00 – Let’s talk about oral sex. Christians justify this because of Hebrews 13:4.(Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure.) People say that means as long as you are married you can do whatever you want. People use this Scripture to justify treating their wives like animals.
Is it too much to ask for some simple logic from a person responsible for teaching tens of thousands of people? In a few words he equates oral sex to treating your spouse like an animal. Huh? That is quite a jump. And if he contends that Hebrews 13:4 doesn’t mean that you can do whatever is mutually agreeable in the bedroom, then why doesn’t he offer up and alternate interpretation?
It’s very irresponsible to make these kinds of sweeping statements to impressionable young people. In fact, as this article points out – oral sex is not explicitly mentioned anywhere in the Bible.
No where does the Bible forbid it or discuss it. There is no biblical evidence that it is a sin against God for a husband and wife to express love for each other in this way. Even the book of Leviticus, which mentions many Old Testament sex-related prohibitions and rules for the Israelites, never mentions it
@ 58:30 – Think about this for a second. Humans are the only species that God made that can face each other while having intercourse. How about that? There is a reason for that: because its not an animal act, its intimacy with a person. God made us so that we are forced to look at each other in the eye when we experience intimacy with each other. Not just an animal drive, it’s a relationship with another person.
He could have used a Scriptural argument here to back up his idea that missionary position is the only “godly” way. Oh wait, no, he actually couldn’t – because it’s not in Scripture. In addition, it’s easy to debunk his logic. Several animals have sex face to face:
– Pygmy Chimpanzees
– Orangutans
– Dolphins
The reality is that Ron does have a few nuggets of truth throughout this talk, but they are surrounded by so much nonsensical “logic” and unscriptural ideas that it can be hard to distinguish the truth from the lies.
It’s sad that so many Christian leaders choose to use guilt and fear tactics when talking to Christians about sex. They might as well be saying, “I don’t trust God’s love or the Holy Spirit’s conviction to guide your heart’s decisions.”
39 comments:
Great post.
I agree with nixing the “passion button”. You shouldn’t use metaphorical buttons for something that is easily explained.
I can only imagine how much damage has been done by Ron specifically telling young men and women who have been sexually abused that they need to get “whole in their heart” before they get married. Does he not believe that everyone needs to be whole in their heart? If so, why single out those who have been sexually abused?
I’m sorry to say, the more I read their teachings, the more I realize they aren’t going to change.
Hide your kids, hide your wife … 🙂
I remember this talk, I was really confused for a couple weeks. I’m a naturally trusting guy and if some one (like Ron) said “such and such” I would have had a tendency to believe. I talked to my way cool ACA his response was, “what? He can’t be serious because thats is so much BS.” WE had a discussion as a room for quite a long while. We had one agree to slightly disagree but over all we agreed that this talk was way off base. We felt he must have been just getting really excited and regurgitating some teaching he had heard from another “teacher” he aligns him self with.
The more I enjoy the truth in this blog, the more I realize these guys (TM) are all over the board emotionally and spiritually and function out of fear (possibly guilt) and truly love has been taken off the front burner, as it were.
P.S.
We do need to hide our kids! (from TM)
har har har!
Whew…adjusting my collar…wow…
Yeah, lots of stuff that would be fun to discuss, and so I may hop on over to the forum for that, but one particular quote here that I love, RA:
“Instead of making people feel guilty about ever feeling sexually turned on, it would be better to help them recognize their sexuality as a gift from God and not something to be ashamed of.”
Genius.
Great post. Ah, absurdist performance art.
The worst sentence here is actually the first one. “God’s idea,” my heinie (and look! Another lie from Hasz!). At the publisher where I work, we actually made a formal rule that you can’t write “God wants/thinks/likes X” without citing a Scripture that specifically says so. This would come back with some severe red ink.
“Pressing your passion button” makes me snicker, but well, if that’s what she said… He said! I meant He said!
Sandra Bullock’s (ex-)husband cheated on her with a stripper with Nazi tattos. Seriously, Ron–you think it was because Sandra freakin’ Bullock didn’t do enough to make herself look attractive? Not maybe because her husband was a pig?
Some commentators say that some of the poetic imagery in Song of Solomon suggests oral sex (positively, and within marriage)–e.g. “I will go into the garden and taste the fruit.” Of course that could be taken any number of ways (it’s a poem after all) but it is suggestive enough to see the case for it.
For those who want a sane (and actually biblical) view on marriage, I like Paul Tripp’s new book.
“@ 39:43 – So what I always tell people if they ever say, “Well, we’ve blown it, we’ve had sex but we still want to get married.” I say, “Break up.” ….What you’ve told me by your sexual involvement is that you are not mature enough for a romance….you have not learned how to exercise self control…you shouldn’t be thinking about a romance. You should be thinking about your own character and your walk with God….After you break up for a while and spend time with God, then see if God will draw you back together.”
WHAT?!?!?! He can’t be serious. Cause, you know, that won’t traumatize you at all and demolish your self worth. Grace is sufficient UNLESS YOU’RE KNOCKIN’ BOOTS. Then God’s like “oh crap I can’t fix that CTRL+Z”. That’s how it works right?
That gets me riled up like nothin’. Ugh. And yet, people walk away believing this. I did.
Lord have mercy.
(Pardon me for getting to some nitty-gritty):
The whole discussion of oral sex as Bad has always made me worry that Ron, et al’s idea of sex is one that can be rather…unpleasing for a female partner. Ron’s very narrow view could likely result in a lot of sexually frustrated women–who can’t complain, because then their husbands will immediately take up porn.
*sigh*
The sex talk, for me, was by FAR the most ridiculous thing I heard my entire year at TM. I remember laughing about it afterward because it was SO OVER THE TOP ridiculous.
Ok, I normally agree very much with RA when she posts things, but I remember my talk being vastly different in 2006. Still over the top, but not nearly this bad. I remember Katy Luce telling us girls that she bought lingerie for their wedding, and I remember Ron saying something along the lines of “oral sex is okay if it doesn’t lead to orgasm.” I do recall the “humans are the only animals who have sex face to face” argument, but I don’t remember equating it with only having sex in missionary position…I interpreted it as the scientific argument that whatever you’re looking at in the moment of orgasm will wire new pathways in your brain, and that’s why old couples are still so attracted to each other. I do remember thinking “doggy style” was out because of it though. Maybe he’s gone back to teaching like this recording, but I think his viewpoint has changed a little in the last 9 years…it seemed to be a bit different in 2006.
Whether he’s gotten a little more liberal or not, I think a much better guide for couples, especially the woman, to read is The Sexually Confident Wife by Shannon Ethridge. It really helped me discover what my own boundaries and convictions were. She is more of the mind that as long as you’re not bringing other people in (including virtually through porn) then it’s okay as long as it doesn’t violate a personal boundary. It helped me get rid of any guilt associated with experimenting in a loving, respectful, married relationship. It’s a fun read as well 🙂
Renae – Thanks for chiming in. I was hoping that people who have heard this talk more recently would let us know how much of this talk is still in use.
“… and I remember Ron saying something along the lines of “oral sex is okay if it doesn’t lead to orgasm.””
I’d LOVE to see the Scripture reference for that.
Lol, so would I, Nunquam. Like I said, still over the top, just not as bad as 2001. Luckily I found books like The Sexually Confident Wife to counter such ridiculous, overly-patriarchal views of sexuality before I got married!
I would like to add that I in no way agree even with Ron’s more progressive view of marriage. I think if those are his convictions, then fine, that’s what they’re comfortable with in their marriage. But he should in no way be telling others that’s how their sex lives should look. We all have our own boundaries, and acts we would just feel uncomfortable with, but none of that should be a blanket ban for all Christians. Personal boundaries are just that…personal boundaries, and don’t need to be discussed with anyone but your spouse. I agree with Shannon Ethridge much more…that God takes delight in my husband and I delighting in each other, no matter how we end up going about it.
yea, they have some mess up ideas when it comes to sex and relationships.
I will defend ron on this point…he’s a man and can’t really give a woman’s perspective on the subject. so don’t hold against him for that.
just want to point out that even though I’m not married, I do know that romance doesn’t end at the alter, it’s something you will continually have to work on till death do you part.
umm…. one more thing…a quote more for the guys. it deals with the repercussion of porn.
“most men want a wife in the kitchen and a whore in the bedroom.”
sex has been perverted beyond recognition because of the world we live in.
Hi Jason – Thanks for deleting your own profane comment so I didn’t have to!
OK I agree with the fact that Ron can tend to make his own convictions sometimes sound like they’re from the Bible and not his convictions but he always has some good points in his talk as well.
I think that inside a marriage, like Shannon Ethridge has said, pretty much anything goes…that you’re comfortable with..except for Porn I think Porn is never ok. It just depends on what you as a married couple are ok with, if there are things in your past that you’ve struggled with…then you probably won’t be comfortable doing them in your marriage…
I never thought Ron was referring to the missionary position as being the only OK one, my mind never went there when I heard that talk as an intern…and just let me say there’s plenty of positions that you can face your spouse and it not be “missionary” style.. (besides Shannons book Sheet music is also a great book for married/engaged couples)
I don’t know a single couple that had sex before they got married and it didn’t cause problems in their marriage, it might not necessarily be that they were jealous and worried about their spouse might cheat on them but it caused strife..the only couples that I know that have had sex before marriage and had a good marriage are ones that allowed God to totally heal them from that experience before they were married…or counseling later working through it together. For some people the breaking it apart for a while might be the better thing because I think the biggest thing that causes strife is because they had sex, well we gotta get married RIGHT now!
and I agree that you need to be healed from sexual abuse BEFORE you get married. Its SO important because if you go into marriage not healed from that it again causes all kinds of problems in the marriage..
Really it comes down to that its really really really important to go through a great pre marital counseling before getting married…it can save you strife and heartache later on in your marriage because you were fully prepared going into it, if you weren’t fully healed from something like sexual abuse but you’ve talked to your fiance about it, you are seeking counseling etc..the point is talking to each other and going in fully aware of what you are getting yourself into..both of you.
.I think Ron’s heart behind his talk is he wants everyone to have the best marriage they possibly can and if you are healed from those things before you get married then you will have a better marriage…less strife, roadblocks, heartache, but if you get married while you’re still struggling with different things it WILL cause problems…sorry I was rambling a bit but hopefully I got my point across.
Brie – I do agree with you that Ron’s heart behind his talk is most likely that he wants to help the interns.
I just wanted to pipe something in real quick…
I know lots, and lots, and lots of couples…I just counted 10 in my head just now without trying…and this includes my wonderful bride of 10 years and I…who had sex before marriage, either with each other or other people, or both, who have never had any sort of serious issues specifically related to sex before marriage. One particular marriage counselor friend, with whom I’ve had this exact conversation, states that it’s ridiculous to believe that sex before marriage causes any serious psychological or emotional issues that affect committed, healthy marriages later.
Granted…all of this is anecdotal. And I’m in no way endorsing (nor condemning) sex before marriage, nor am I commenting on the moral issues at stake. Often your faith dictates how you feel about that particular subject, anyhow.
However, I can say with confidence that I feel very strongly that we Christians tend to invent problems for the sake of instilling fear in people’s hearts and minds so that they won’t do the things we don’t want them to do.
I just want to add in I was an intern in ’07 and DID pick up EVERY bit of what you posted R.A.
Anonymous- me too!
Pre-marital sexual activity HAS actually cause a lot of problems within my marriage. A LOT of problems. We’re working through them and everything is going to be okay, but it has been a long hard road to healing…so maybe it doesn’t cause problems for everyone, but it CAN wreak havoc, and you just never know. (Just for the record, the problems have nothing to do with either of us worrying that the other will cheat. We trust each other to be faithful.) That having been said, I don’t agree with Ron that a couple should automatically break up if they’ve had sex. I don’t agree with any of the other preposterous things mentioned specifically within this blog post, either. There is very much an undercurrent of sexism at TM and it damages people and their relationships, it really does.
mytwocents – Thanks for your vulnerability (and nice name!). I didn’t mean to imply that premarital sex never causes problems – it certainly can and sometimes does.
great post… numquam, your first comment made my wife and i both laugh really hard. “CTRL+Z!!!”
also.. as to whether oral sex is ever in the bible, may i recommend:
http://www.marshillchurch.org/media/the-peasant-princess/his-garden
Hey RA…I think two cents was referring to my little rant. 🙂
TwoCents, far be it from me to say that sex before marriage “cannot” cause problems in a marriage. Honestly, nearly anything can cause problems in a marriage. Prior relationships of any kind. Daddy issues. A best friend of the same sex that won’t go away. Character issues in either or both parties or prior indiscretions of any kind committed prior to or during a marriage can all cause minor or major problems.
The fact of the matter is, marriage is messy and a lot of work. Even if you have a stellar marriage, you’re going to bump into each other quite a bit. And suddenly, you have someone who’s in ALL of your business…past, present, and future.
However, what I’m referring to is the Christian tendency to justify our position on something with some sort of logical conclusion that we should never make. The extreme end of which is ridiculousness like Ron saying that if you’ve had sex before marriage, break up. I wouldn’t be surprised if there are people out there who say “If you’ve fornicated, NEVER get married. To anyone.”
What we do is we choose a sin, and rather than simply saying “Hey, this is a bad idea. And furthermore, God’s kind of forbidden it scripturally.”, we find people for whom that sin has caused serious problems, and say “See? If you do Sin A, the consequences are Hell B.”
This is a post hoc logical fallacy, and I feel does more harm than good. We try to scare people away from sin with effects that aren’t necessarily caused directly by that sin. I promise I don’t mean to minimize how sex before marriage has affected your marriage or anyone else’s (and I second RA’s thanks for your vulnerability, which takes a lot of courage). Again, it’s really dependent on a million factors that I’m sure is taking a tremendous amount of effort to work through. Heaven knows my marriage has had its fair share of the same.
All I’m saying is we aren’t doing anyone any favors by saying “See? If you have sex before marriage, it will cause major issues when you do get married.”
“The danger is that in reaction to abuses and distortions of an idea, we’ll reject it completely. And in the process miss out on the good of it, the worth of it, the truth of it.”
I have come to terms this way. You have to look at where and when Ron got those psych degrees. You have to look at the fact that most psychology today is looking at affirming the person and dealing with their issues not telling them they are awful or that their way of doing things is wrong. I do want to know what version of the DSM he studied when he was in because that probably has a great deal to do with why his ideas are so broken.
I remember at HAO during one of the Youth Group events they showed a film and the end of this film literally said “If you have premarital sex, you WILL get hit by a bus.” When that came up I leaned over to one of the other interns (who was the first to leave) and said “Thats funny, I swear I have never been hit by a bus.”
This post really makes me angry with Ron and the TM culture. There are just too many things to address in a comment space, but first I just need to say this:
Nothing you do can ever separate you from the Love of God. Nothing. And if God chooses to bring someone amazing into your life, and you experience His love in a romantic relationship, wonderful. And WHEN you mess up (b/c every relationship has some major FAILs along the way, no matter how “healed” and “pure” you are), God’s Love is still available and vibrant and ready to be received.
This idea that there is a formula for marriage is preposterous. There is NO WAY to get marriage right. And what’s more, you will only hurt each other unnecessarily when you DO try to get it right. A solid and lasting marriage isn’t built on looking good, being good, or pleasing each other. A solid and lasting marriage is built on Love and complete honesty. And complete honesty definitely means displeasing your spouse often, but it builds trust and Love and real intimacy, which makes it beautiful.
As for the porn comments from RL: In my experience within my own marriage (and my friends’ marriages), viewing porn on my husband’s end has next-to-ZERO to do with me, and almost 100% to do with him…and it’s usually rooted in deep shame and fear of intimacy. To think that wives are solely responsible for their husbands’ sexual interest, struggle, and behavior is preposterous and demeaning. The idea that somehow shaving my legs everyday, and developing a borderline eating disorder just to COMPETE WITH PORN is complete bullsh**. But I digress. The ability to be honest with each other about these struggles and wounds and deeply shamed places in our hearts is how we redeem our marriage and heal.
@ brie: in regards to sexual abuse.
I would like to undserstand what you meant when you suggested a person not get married unless they were healed.
I think ppl should seek help for sexual abuse but its not something that a person can be healed from completely forever and ever, although I wish it were so. logically there would a lot less ppl married…well a significant amount of ppl left unmarried.
The pain of abuse,with help, is something that is lessoned little by little and sometimes day, weeks, months can go by without affecting a person severely. but then life throws you a curve ball and someone looks at you in a certain way, or says something and what you thought was left behind comes flooding in.
So long as there is transparency in a relationship regarding the matter I would not withold someone from building a relationship that in itself could be a great example to the abused of what a true relationship is meant to be.
but I understand that every case is different and so I cannot generalize the application of my statements.
I remember this exact speech from Ron. I was a virgin when I lived at his compound. I had only ever kissed a boy before. I had a lot of ideas about how great I thought sex was going to be when I grew up and got married. And, honestly, my first thought after hearing his sex talk was, “If that’s all I have to look forward to in marriage [the missionary position] then I don’t think I ever want to get married. Sex seems overrated.”
Later in my year, I decided Ron was full of crap. My thought about sex changed to, “Well, there is no way I would marry another intern because they are being brainwashed with this garbage and I’m not going to be stuck with one of them and have nothing to look forward to sexually in marriage.” Hahahahaha.
The cult really messes with a person.
My mother is a Certified Sex Therapist…she believes and has taught me that the Church has made us all a bunch of prudes in need of a Savior. My Lord, if I believed that sex was only to be performed one way only I would run screaming in the opposite direction and my poor husband would be frustrated at my reluctance to have sex with him. Go pick up the book “A Celebration of Sex”, it talks about exploring your Spouse FULLY and INTIMATELY, and yes, I do believe Song of Solomon is a metaphor for the marriage bed.
Dan,
Thanks for the clarification. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. I just didn’t want people to read your first comment and think that pre-marital sex doesn’t have consequences for a marriage. But I think you’re right on in what you’re saying, and I wish that Christian leaders would be straight up with people rather than use fear to try to keep people in line.
As a side note to this most men I know would cringe at having sex with a woman that wasn’t enjoying it to the point of the sex being a moot point. My partner will stop everything even if I have one look of apathy so I don’t understand how the people that did agree with this teaching had any success in their marriages. I mean the frustration alone and the dark thoughts that maybe the woman you loved and courted would have to be crushing.
My husband and I crossed serious boundaries before we were married. There was a point before our wedding when I felt truly despondent and hopeless, because I couldn’t see how God could bless our marriage when we’d “messed up”. I cried and cried because I was so sure that I’d have to give him up.
We didn’t break up. We didn’t take a break from each other. But we did repent. Healing still hasn’t completely come (if it’s even possible to measure such a thing), even after five years… but it is much “easier” (ie: more efficient and rewarding) to work through these issues together. Things still aren’t as good as they could be… but when I think about those few days when I thought that breaking up with my now husband, even for a short period of time, was my only option… I am so thankful that instead we were able to repent and move forward… with confidence that God’s grace is big enough to cover (GASP!) even sexual sin.
And to the above Anonymous (10:31 PM), I totally agree. Nothing is a bigger turn off to my husband than the thought that I’m just “going through the motions”.
Brie,
It is not possible to go into a marriage fully prepared. Good premarital counseling is great, but the best thing it does is give you a framework for learning to communicate with one another. It doesn’t sort out all the difficulties that you’re going to face. Marriage takes a lot of work and gives great rewards for that work. I am so happy I am married. But I won’t downplay the difficulties.
Your statements on sexual abuse are very shortsighted and hurtful to those of us who have experienced abuse. Healing from sexual abuse takes years if it’s going to happen. In the end, it’s more about coming to terms with what’s happened than being healed. There are some things that you just don’t get better from. But, you can live your life. You can learn to establish good boundaries. You can stop allowing someone else’s twisted views to tell you how you should think of yourself. And it takes time. Nothing has been more helpful to me in my healing process than my supportive, wonderful husband. At the same time a big part of me would still understand if he could not have stuck with me through this process.
Bottom line, I think you’re wrong — along with Ron Luce — in what you said about sexual abuse. If you wait for healing then you’re only going to end up wasting years of your life dependent on a horrible thing someone did to you. I’m not saying you should ignore sexual abuse. Getting professional help is imperative. But the abuse should not control your life and decisions.
Esther, you have it perfect. Anyone who thinks ANYTHING is going to fully prepare them for marriage is setting themselves up for major disappointment. It’s wonderful, but at the same time it’s also very difficult.
I agree with your statements about abuse as well. My husband has been so supportive of my recovery process. Also, there are things that have come up now, in my relationship with my husband, that I had no idea I still needed healing from. I never would have known about it if I had never gotten married. How, then, could I have healed from it before I got married?
I’m realize that being sexually abused is something you might never get over, I meant that its important to seek professional help to cope with/heal from such things…to not go into a marriage not having addressed those issues yet is just going to make your marriage really really difficult, and if you haven’t addressed those issues at all yet, I don’t think you should get married, you need to be working on coping with them before your marriage.
And I disagree I think you cant go into a marriage prepared, I know I was very prepared coming into my marriage and its great, yes we’ve had hard times, all marriages have hard times and they’re not just rainbows and puppies all the time and if anyone thought that they’d probably be in for a divorce at some point, but going through a good counselor, and dating that person for a while allowed us to talk about a LOT of things that made us more prepared for what we faced being married as opposed to if we’d just dated for a very short time and got married quickly. Neither my husband nor I have been disappointed in what we did to “prepare” ourselves for marriage and What God worked with us on.
I didn’t say you cannot prepare for marriage. I said you cannot be “fully prepared.” I agree that taking your time in getting to know one another and doing premarital counseling are great. There is no way that you are going to know all of what life will throw at you ahead of time, however.
So, what about people who have repressed memories of abuse?
I think we’re both on the same page in thinking Ron Luce is wrong. As an aside, it makes me really, really angry to read what he said about victims of sexual abuse. He has no clue what he’s talking about.