First of all, I just want to say Thank You for your blog. I wish I could just give you a big hug!
My son went through HA and is still dealing with many “hurts” inflicted upon him there. I am just now finding out some of the details, because he has simply been unable to share everything with me. I am now encouraging him to share more.
I also want to say that until recently, I was truly unaware of what he went through. I encouraged him to “finish the program,” even when I could sense he was simply exhausted and in need of rest. I reminded him of the amount of money we sent for him to be there. I reminded him of the sacrifice we and his family were making. 🙁
I am now dealing with the guilt, as I’m sure many parents are.
You see, I sent him there with my blessing, truly unaware of what he would go through. I read the parents material they sent, sent the checks, and really thought this would be the best thing for my son. The guilt I feel now is almost unbearable at times. What I thought would be the greatest experience of my sons life, has turned into overriding guilt. I now feel like I sent him into the lions den. He has forgiven me, and that does help a great deal, but there is still the gnawing sense that as a parent I let him down.
I truly believed he would be taken care of, as the material stated. He would have 3 meals a day, a place to stay where he would be surrounded by God’s people who would encourage and support him in his walk with God. He would have deep intense bible study, he would experience growth and his life would be so much better for it, well, I could go on and on.
Upon graduation, we listened to Dave Hasz talk about what some of what the graduates would go through upon leaving. I thought I was prepared because of this little talk and tried to understand when he was experiencing depression and a sense of loss. The months turned into years, and I admit, wrongfully so, that I got more than frustrated because he wasn’t “over” it. I wish I had known then, what I know now.
Upon finding out what had happened to my son and also my daughter on a mission trip, I wrote to Dave demanding answers. I pretty much got a general reply.
I guess I just wanted to share a little of what a parent feels like.
I believe that my biggest problem with ESOAL is that they think military like training will help you go through life’s problems without emotion. I’m sorry, but having lived nearly 50 years and experiencing many of the problems they mentioned, I can truly say that is the biggest lie they can spread. i.e. When you lose someone you love, you have emotion. Christ experienced deep emotion at the death of his dear friend, he didn’t just trudge through without a tear. He didn’t rely on training to help Him “deal with it.” He dealt with it in a truly human way, with tears and mourning. Isn’t He our greatest example?
We are told in the Word that we, as Christians, are meant to give aid, support, console, love and care for one another. Belittling is not mentioned as a way to help someone live their life to glorify God. By telling someone they are a loser, or a failure, is not how we live Christ’s example. I would like to ask where the arms of Christ are when these student’s “ring out.” Instead of feeling they did their best, they are made to feel the worst, that they let God down because they couldn’t “deal” with ESOAL. Come on!! This isn’t how we teach our children about God’s love for us!! Instead, we teach them by example, when they fall as a child, we don’t belittle them, we hold out our arms and hug them until they feel better. We tell them that the scrape on their knee will heal, and that we love them. We don’t tell them to “buck up!” I simply don’t see this example being the focus. This backwards idea won’t help anyone with life’s problems, it will only heap on the guilt and despair that our enemy is already piling on us.
Yes, life does push us to the brink of sanity at times. Yes, life is hard and we will all have to deal with it in our individual way. Yes, there will be moments when we feel like we will break apart. But, that is the time when our stronger brothers and sisters are there when we need them, with open arms, a shoulder to cry on, and a loving heart. ESOAL doesn’t teach this, it teaches self reliance and ignorance of one another’s needs.
Personally, I don’t blame Ron Luce for what happened to my son and my daughter. I believe those in charge must be held accountable for their actions, and I know they ultimately will be. God deals harshly with those in authority who lead young ones astray. I strongly agree with the dream Ron had then, and still has today. I only find fault with who was chosen to carry this out. Dave Hasz and his staff should stand down and ask each person for forgiveness.
I cringe at the thought of what this will do, and has done, to our future generation of Christian leaders. The example they have shown an unbelieving world is once again a black mark on all Christian testimony.
23 comments:
This is a great post! Wow. They are getting really good and really deep lately!
I just want to say I feel even more blessed to have found this blog only like a year and a half after leaving the internship because I was able to, early on, call T.M. out and work on this issues right away.
My testimony is not one of spending years and years struggling through depression and questioning God (which I so would have done), but more of calling T.M. out for the bullshit they pulled near instantly and getting my justice for it near instantly.
What I went through at T.M. was nothing short of hell though, for real. Torment and confusion that I do still feel the effects of today. My biggest question to God is, ‘WHO ARE YOU?!?!?!?!’ and it’s usually out of me knowing that I just have no idea and it’s really really REALLY hard find Him and I’m frustrated.
But I just don’t give up looking. And I do end up finding Him ALWAYS. But it’s just really frustrating often. Worth it. But frustrating. But DEFINITELY worth it. 🙂November 17, 2010 8:20 AM
Micheal McComber said…
My journey with God have taken several turns,
My wife and I were 4 months prego, we woke up one morning and she was not feeling so well. The sheets are wet with blood. We rush to the hospital, I begin to pray, father protect Sean Patrick protect my wife. I called the prayer chain at my church. The DR called me in to her room, she told us we lost the baby. I was devastated. I felt so let down so abandoned. Words failed me. I struggled to believe.
The second time was we found out that my wife had a brain tumor. After a very long 5 months we believed with prayer he would take care of the tumor(after many many words from people that God is going to do a miracle) . The day of the surgery we found out the tumor had grown bigger. So after a long surgery as they were finishing she had a stroke. Again I felt abandoned felt like God did not hear prayers of many people on my behalf went unheard. I felt alone, cold left out of his love his grace.
Today its hard to say my walk was what it was. I still struggle, with love and grace
A work in progress i guess
MMNovember 17, 2010 10:23 AM
Heather said…
Micheal, there are no words to say about all you have been through. One thing I am learning though is that we are all trying to figure out life and God. I grieve with you. Pain often makes us feel so alone and there is no way for me to relieve it so as a fellow human seeking after the Lord, I grieve that you are faced with the deep pain you are.
Until this past year, ever since the HA I felt like God abandoned me. After 14 months of counseling and many books read, I somehow have gotten to the place where I am ok with the “why” questions not being answered. I want them answered but I have accepted that they won’t be. A book that has encouraged me beyond words is “Where is God when it Hurts?” By Philip Yancey. Yancey also came from a toxic environment and approaches his writing as someone deeply hurt (his father died because of wrong doctrine). I highly recommend his books.November 17, 2010 11:31 AM
Shelley said…
“Whatever you are feeling, He can handle it and he won’t punish you for it.” This was such a huge thing for me, and I’m still working on fully grasping and living this out everyday.
My history with Teen Mania is really just now coming under scrutiny in my mind. I went from a spiritually abusive/fanatical church to being an intern at the HA (starting Aug 2002), going back to that same church, and ending with being seriously hurt by many people there (and no longer being there, thankfully). That cycle finally ended 2 years ago, in 2008. So from 2008 until earlier this year, I blamed God for everything that happened. Not until I was completely removed from the cycle did I see all of the incorrect teachings and completely misguided ideas I had adopted from them. Of course, I’m still working towards full recovery and figuring out who God really is. I still question a lot of things but I think I’m finally to a point where I don’t blame God for “allowing” me to go through it all. Of course I see some of the good that has come from my experience. But I can also echo RA’s thoughts: “But, still, couldn’t we have accomplished all that with a lot less pain??” I’m still working on this part.November 17, 2010 11:38 AM
Anonymous said…
I no longer believe in God…if God is so good, all powerful, and caring, then why does he allow this sort of abuse to continue and not warn young hearts that are only trying to seek him and do good in the world?November 17, 2010 11:57 AM
Eric said…
So much that can be said here (and I second the Philip Yancey recommendation). For the moment, I’ll just remark that, if you’ve ever thought it’s wrong to express feelings of doubt or betrayal or anger about God, go read the Psalms for a bit. Not only is it OK, it’s in the Bible.November 17, 2010 12:57 PM
Always and forever anonymous. said…
Been there. Nearly committed suicide because of a feeling of betrayal by God. I’d lost hope. I was stopped in my tracks by the Holy Spirit almost audibly asking me… “Do you believe that God is real?” I’d seen too much to be able to say no.
You get to choose whether or not you believe that God is real. You get to choose whether or not you believe that He is good. Those two steps are the first steps towards resolving feelings of betrayal by God. He doesn’t – and didn’t betray you.November 17, 2010 1:25 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
I think choice is a strong word – it makes it sound like its all up to us. (And I almost mentioned that in Monday’s post) While we do certainly have a say in the matter, I think we can only choose to trust God if He has won our trust. And thats often a process. Its ok to not trust Him – as long as we are honest with Him about that. Its his job to win our hearts and He can do it.November 17, 2010 1:27 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Always – Just to clarify, I didn’t mean to take away from your experience at all. I think God speaks to us in different ways.November 17, 2010 1:28 PM
Jami said…
There were plenty of people who turned my miscarriage experience into a “What will you choose?!” scenario. So that when the time came, and I totally despaired and sunk under the pain, I was left with feelings of failure. Because I “chose” the wrong path. When confronted with suffering I failed to adopt the “It is well” mentality. I could not fathom His reasons. Why give me these desires? Why allow us to experience the joy and excitement of expected pregnancy… just to take it away? I felt betrayed. And for over a year, I walked away.
Always and forever anonymous, I’m glad that the two step process that you listed worked for you. I came to a place after the miscarriage (which was an incredibly painful and character defining moment for me) where I simply couldn’t handle the “God is good, all the time” party line. The danger of the ideas you espouse is that in times of suffering, the intangibles of “God’s reality and goodness” were too much for me. When I asked tough questions, I was often met with that pesky reminder “But He’s good…” as if it was an answer.
I’ve come a long way since then, and thank God that I’m through that time of doubt and depression. I am so thankful for the people who stayed with me throughout that process and never tried to make the choice so “black and white”.November 17, 2010 6:27 PM
Always and forever anonymous said…
Jami, I’m so sorry for your loss. I’ve lost three babies. Every time, I grieved deeply and had to wrestle with the question of God’s nature. Please don’t take the rest of this response as being directed at you because it certainly isn’t.
RA’s post was about feeling betrayed by God because He let her go through the HA.
God is real – or He isn’t. Either He is good – or He isn’t. As difficult as it is to believe when life gets hard, faith really is that black and white. He doesn’t move. He isn’t changeable. Scripture says that He stands at the door of our heart and knocks. It’s up to us to respond. We have to believe. Hebrews says that we can’t please him without faith… and then goes on to define faith as the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.
While I appreciate the questions created by hard experiences, those experiences do not change the nature of who God is. David questioned God. He asked hard questions. But he also wrote “Where can I go from your presence?” God doesn’t move. We do.November 17, 2010 7:54 PM
Carl Litchfield said…
I never felt betrayed by God. I felt that Teen Mania had taken advantage of me, and it opened my eyes to how deep and widespread the problems within the church are. That’s why I walked away.
My experiences at Teen Mania, my own, private experiences, will not allow me to deny the existence of God. I honestly would not want to. I believe, completely, that God has led me on my current path. I am not a Christian. I am an Eclectic Pagan.
I remember hearing Christians say all of the time that we should not put God in a box. Yet I have yet to encounter a faith with more boxes to put God in. The moment you say “God is all knowing” you put Him in a box. When you say “God is all powerful” you put Him in a box. When you say “God is all good” you put Him in a box. Even in my own use of “Him” to describe God, I’ve put Him in a box.
For the record, I knew intellectually as a Christian that using the masculine to describe God was a patriarchal throwback and not at all accurate. It wasn’t until I studied Wicca that I actually encountered the feminine Goddess. Even that is not at all accurate.November 17, 2010 8:37 PM
Shaina said…
Yes– we could have accomplished some of it with less pain. . .but the core of it, the empathy and understanding. . . I don’t think so.
My life seems to be a litany of sufferings, all varying in degree, but each expanding my compassion to others, each making me have more mercy and generosity with other people who have had to go through similar things, and maybe even worse. So if the goal of the Christian life is to become more like Christ, and being that HE is love incarnate. . . it would make sense that any experience that can increase my tenderness towards others is an experience that grants me the desire of my heart to be more like Him.
It hurts like CRAZY. I resonate deeply with Christ’s words at the garden: “Father please pass this cup over me. . . . ” and on the cross: “My God, my God, WHY have you forsaken me?”
Yet as I overcome I also feel the power of the resurrection fill my heart and eyes with the truth that Love conquers all. Love can fill the dark places, even the darkest places in my heart and RESURRECT me. Thank you Lord.November 17, 2010 10:16 PM
Anonymous said…
Always and Forever…
Either/Or statements without evidence, but only faith…is blind faith. I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re desire to fit your experience into a nice scriptural framework, comes off as harsh and uncaring. Which is my problem with the God of scripture…He allows Job to go through hell to win a bet with Satan. Not the sort of being I want to know….sorry.November 17, 2010 10:29 PM
layne said…
“He allows Job to go through hell to win a bet with Satan. Not the sort of being I want to know….sorry.”
I have never been able to justify this side of God’s character. If a human being did this to another human being, I would like to see them imprisoned. So. How to reconcile.November 18, 2010 8:56 AM
Jami said…
Always,
You’re right. God is either real or He isn’t. He is unchangeable. But your efforts at belittling the “choice” we have to make when faced with suffering aren’t appreciated.
I’m sorry for your losses as well. However, we seem to have taken very different things from our experiences. I take way more care when I share whatever tidbits of wisdom and insight I may have gained than I would have as a younger Christian.
As far as feeling betrayed by God because of my HA experiences… not so much. I feel confused, because I was so sure He wanted me to go… and at my lowest, it did seem as though He’d lead me there only to face abuse, both physical and spiritual. However, I refuse to belittle the feelings that others may have on the subject. I didn’t feel betrayed by God in that instance… but we all deal with grief/loss/anger/frustration in different ways. God IS good. I’m just thankful that I had loving people in my life, during my time of loss who could remind me of that in a way that wasn’t patronizing.November 18, 2010 9:00 AM
Eric said…
The other writer who simply must be read on this subject is Oswald Chambers. Not just “My Utmost” as good as that is– look for some of his full-length books on suffering.
Here’s a few fascinating quotes from his study of Job. (Layne’s remark about Job reminded me, so thanks.)November 18, 2010 9:13 AM
thinks a lot said…
“He allows Job to go through hell to win a bet with Satan. Not the sort of being I want to know….sorry.”
Layne, I have been thinking about that for a very long time.
The only thing I can come up with is, I am missing something about God. In my heart I know that the only way to get the answer is to get closer to Him but that scares me. Job seemed to be pretty close to God and look what happened to him.
Eric, Thanks for the reference. I look forward to reading it soon.November 18, 2010 10:20 AM
julie said…
What the story of Job epitomizes to me is that God is committed to giving us free will. Satan pops up and says, “Hey God, course Job worships you, you give him a ton of stuff!” If God only allowed blessings and good things for His followers and bad things and suffering for His non-followers, almost everyone would choose God over suffering, it doesn’t leave you much choice! Instead, we all get all of it. Bad people receive blessing and suffering. Good people receive blessing and suffering.
On another thought, if Christians never suffered, we couldn’t really know empathy or mercy. In this conversation, people have spoken of their suffering and others have empathized because we’ve all experienced pain in one form or another. If we never suffered we would never understand the pain of others. I’m in no way saying any of this makes pain hurt less, though, so please don’t think I’m just throwing out platitudes. I certainly don’t think someone in pain hears this and thinks it’s worth it if empathy results.
Just my two cents.November 18, 2010 5:37 PM
Melissa said…
First, to all those who have suffered through their decisions about God, I can relate, honestly and truly. Almost 50, and I still have struggles with knowing these things pass, and blaming God.
I have come to some conclusions though, and hope by sharing,it helps others.
I think that we must remember, that our suffering isn’t a judgement or test from God. Bad things happen to all people. Does God stop loving us because bad things have happened? No, His love endures forever.
When something bad does happen to us, we tend to think God doesn’t love us, or this wouldn’t happen, right?
Parents, must allow bad things to happen to a child so the child will experience greater good. The hardest thing for a new parent is watching their child receive their first shots. I hated it! The long needle thrust into my 2 month old babies leg. I wanted to refuse to have it done over and over, yet, the greater good was that my child would be more secure having had the shots. The pain would last, sometimes a few days. There was always side affects, the fevers, the tummy upsets, but the immunizations would keep that child from something worse. I hated to see them suffering, but I also knew what they didn’t, that this would pass, and they would be healthier and stronger for it.
God allows bad things to happen, love does not protect, it enables us to go through those bad things. Sometimes, our perception of God’s love is where the problem really lies. Love is not a fairy tale, it demands, at times, the hardest emotional trauma in our lives.
It would be easy for me to spout a million and one platitudes about right now. But to those going through pain, it doesn’t help. After having lost three children to miscarriage, I know the heartache that is suffered and I would never tell someone to hang on, or pray through it. I believe, that sometimes we must suffer through pain. It is a reality of life. God created us with those emotions, and He is perfectly able to deal with us when we scream out our frustrations and pains to Him. It isn’t a “sin” to be what God made you to be, a child of God with imperfect emotions. He will never deny that emotions are real to us, and many times He will simply sit back and wait for us to go through them with arms open where we can have a time of rest. If you are hurting now, Take time to rest in His arms. Getting “over it” may not be what is for your greater good, experiencing it, may be.November 18, 2010 6:51 PM
Anonymous said…
Layne-
I agree with you, that many of the things that God is recorded as doing would be seen as horrific if a human acted like God did…November 19, 2010 10:57 AM
Moriah said…
My journey through Christian land (non denominational churches, homeschooled,and 5 years of TM ) led me away from the idea of God as presented to me in these situations.
When confronted with some very painful situations and realities, I dod not question God’s betrayal of me. Instead, I questioned the Christian stories and ideas about God that were being pressed into my brain at every turn. I released all my expectations of God, and found that actually, I didn’t believe in the way God was being twisted by Christians into a giant fairy tale of goodness and healing and magic. I began exploring other traditions and ideas about God. I studied the older more traditional religions of the world, such as Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, and Hinduism. I learned about newer bodies of thought, such as Humanism, Atheism, and Agnosticism. My ability to learn about these things with an open heart helped me to let go of my identity as a Christian, all wrapped up in all these heavy expectations of “God”. God really meant so many different things to many different people. I began to let go of my own expectations. What I found was an inner peace I had never experienced, a calm acceptance of both the conflict and suffering in this world as well as the peace and goodness. I retained many of the my Christian values, such as kindness and compassion and the desire to help alleviate suffering when I can, but I released many of the values that became obsolete and ridiculous in light of all of the knowledge and information I allowed into my heart and mind.
I now consider myself agnostic and profoundly interested and influenced by the spiritual values and expectations found in Buddhism. This path has led me very specifically away from the modern day Christians expectation of God to somehow alleviate all believers from suffering or troubled life experience.November 19, 2010 11:02 AM
Carl Litchfield said…
Moriah
You seem to be further along the same path I’ve been taking these last few years. I wonder if there’s any authors you recommend for studying those faiths and bodies of thought? I mean of course, aside from the traditional scriptures for the religions, though I’m not entirely certain what those are for Buddhism and Hinduism.November 19, 2010 5:14 PM