Sadly, the common thread that I see in almost every former intern I talk to is shame. Shame about who they are, shame about not measuring up, not being enough, not fitting into the Christian mold they were taught. And yet, all the while, God created them to be themselves, to honor Him by walking in their uniqueness. But Teen Mania stole that from them. It makes me angry and sad.
Instead of “making leaders” Teen Mania actually cripples people from being able to walk in who they really are. To be comfortable in their own skin.
I think this phenomenon goes back to some things we’ve discussed before. Someone in leadership has a particular personality trait or preference and instead of recognizing that as the way God wired them individually, they make it into a standard that everyone must achieve. They basically take the way God created them and turn it into the mold everyone else must conform to in order to be considered a good Christian (or elite warrior). And in the process, they discount and cast shame on the way God made the rest of us as unique individuals.
A few examples…
Dave Hasz likes politics and being classy. So, he teaches the “Aura of a Statesman” as the best, most Christian way of handling yourself. Of course, there is nothing in the Bible about aspiring to imitate politicians or with much of anything in that teaching. Is there anything wrong with Dave wanting to carry himself a certain way? Not really. But there is something very wrong with shaming others who God did not create to walk in that same way.
Ron Luce likes to dream big and scream/growl when he prays and speaks. Does that mean that everyone has to head a worldwide ministry? Does everyone have to be a missionary? Does everyone have to copy his speaking style? Certainly not!
Heath Stoner obviously likes to have his marriage a certain way. Much of that is cultural, not Biblical. Its his own personal preference. Great for him! But it is not right to force his personal preferences, which are not backed by Scripture, onto others.
I’m sure we could go on and on here…exercise, copying elements of the military, rigid sexual rules even within marriage, learning new vocabulary words, having an outgoing personality, etc. Most of the Honor Academy is based on the personality and preferences of a few men. When you fail to conform to their particular mold, you are made to feel inferior as a believer. This is a travesty.
God MADE each of us. Isn’t that crazy? He gave each of us a different personality, a different background, different desires and different skills. So why would we think that we all have to conform to the same personality type? Why would we all try to live the exact same way?
God likes diversity! He created a jillion different types of plants, animals, habitats, etc. Recognizing our diversity honors Him as the creator! And disparaging someone else because they are wired differently than you disrespects the Creator.
I Corinthians 12:27, 29-31
Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it…Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues[d]? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the greater gifts.
You no longer need to feel the shame of not living up to the standards men gave you at the Honor Academy. They disrespected your individuality. They disrespected who God made you to be. But God does not side with them. He created you to be you. There is no shame in what He created! You can stop apologizing for who He made you to be and just be you.
38 comments:
Eric P. said…
Speaking of breaking out of the mold, God also created Dr. McDuffee, and it was awesome.
May 14, 2010 9:50 AM
Chris Desrochers said…
I was an intern and I experienced no shame. I guess not EVERY intern fits your sterotype.
May 14, 2010 12:07 PM
Anonymous said…
@Chris — Wait, are you trying to shame us?
May 14, 2010 12:12 PM
Chris Desrochers said…
Not all all. Just sharing my experience and making a point. “Those who look to Him are radiant, their faces are NEVER covered with shame” – Ps 34
May 14, 2010 12:20 PM
Anon said…
Chris, no one likes a troll.
May 14, 2010 12:47 PM
Anonymous said…
teen mania is f’d up
May 14, 2010 12:50 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Chris, you were also a staff member for a few years. You were probably favored and thus spared.
Just like how not all Christians are arrogant and dismiss whatever psychological damage they’ve inflicted, not every intern is steeped in shame.
That’s why RA said “the common thread that I see in almost every former intern I talk to is shame”.
As for myself, yes I agree with this post. Definitely something that heavily influenced my year, peer-wise.
May 14, 2010 12:54 PM
Chris Desrochers said…
Anon: I posted my name and a link to my blog. One of us is anonymously seeks to elicit a reaction and it’s not me :). I’ve made on-topic comments and I’ve been polite.
Nunquam Honorablus: This blog is called “My Teen Mania Experience”. My comment reflects my experience as an intern. The word “almost’ indicts that a majority of interns experience shame. That is misleading, hence my comment. I do agree with you, not all Christians are arrogant and dismissive of hurt and not every intern is steeped in shame.
May 14, 2010 1:12 PM
Cesna said…
Saying almost is not misleading at all, Chris. BECAUSE IT’S TRUE. It’s a rarity to encounter interns who don’t struggle with it.
May 14, 2010 1:20 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Chris- I ask because you work(ed?) in the Mob, so you’d honestly know better than I would. Can you truthfully say that it is not a majority case?
Plus, it’s the majority of former interns that RA has communicated with, for what it’s worth.
PS: you have been polite, and it is greatly appreciated! 😉
May 14, 2010 1:23 PM
Eric P. said…
So far I see several affirming and one dissenting, which I think should justifiably be taken to indicate the perspicacity of the terms “most” and “almost all.”
(Sorry, I’ve been at the Wodehouse again.)
May 14, 2010 1:25 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Chris, the fact that you were on staff shows that you probably fit the mold – which is why you felt no shame. You were in the “in” crowd, so to speak. They only hire staff members who fit their mold…
May 14, 2010 1:27 PM
Philip E said…
Eric,
You’re also on a site that is anti-TM. It’s not exactly a good group to sample from.
It would be like me going to a NASCAR event to determine the percentage of varying ethnic groups in the United States.
I should also state that the majority of interns that I’m still in contact with from my year haven’t suffered from extreme shame either.
I don’t think challenging someone’s experiences because they don’t line up with our experiences in the same organization is very productive.
May 14, 2010 1:32 PM
littlegraygirl said…
Eric,
Actually, I think it is more indicative of the demographic that visits and comments on this site. The majority of people on this recovery site are dealing with shame, but that makes sense because this is a recovery web-site. Those that feel they have nothing to recover from probably won’t spend much time here.
The point, however, is still good. The culture TM creates does promote shame for a lot of people. I DEFINITELY had a problem with it while I was there, and still deal with it today. I think that because of my personality, I was more vulnerable to it than maybe some of the other interns, but still. The environment was definitely one more conducive to judgment than nurture. At least in MY little corner of TM. I realize that not everyone had that same experience.
Chris, welcome….I’m glad your experience was better. Thank you for being polite. I respect your dissenting views and I appreciate that you have respected ours, even if you may disagree.
May 14, 2010 1:35 PM
Samantha Salazar said…
Hm. I think that shame is common to humanity in general – not just at TM. Instead of bringing out shame or condemnation or smothering my personality, I think a lot of creativity & uniqueness I walk in today was brought out & nurtured at the HA. To some minuscule degree, I do feel that the high achievers at the HA were mostly assertive cholerics, but I felt like the leadership made it clear enough that we were wired differently &that no calling was more important than another’s. I felt no shame in being unique. If I felt shame while at the HA or afterwards, it was more from inner conviction rather than something imposed by the HA.
I also feel like this idea of being an elite warrior is based out of Scripture. God often took the less in the world &made them more (ie: Gideon). It wasn’t in Gideon’s personality to be assertive or to do something great, but God trained him & raised him up to that standard. In the Word, He often makes the distinction for us to be set apart. Strong. Like a soldier.
I think the HA doesn’t necessarily discount or cast shame of the way God made us unique. Whenever Mr. Hasz spoke about being an elite warrior or having the aura of a statemen & gave examples in Scripture, I understood that as encouragement – something to strive for because that’s what the Word said rather than something he came up with on his own.
I will be nothing like Mr. Luce, Mr. Hasz, or Mr. Stoner. Their callings is not my own & I’ve always understood that. I think that interns are good to go as long as they understand that they are striving to become like Christ and imitate those who live according to the truth (Phil 3:17) rather than trying to embody the lives of those in TM leadership simply because they (interns) get it into their minds that that is what becoming like Christ looks like. It isn’t a matter of conforming to Teen Mania standards in themselves, but conforming to what the Word of God says.
May 14, 2010 2:53 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Samantha – Totally agree with you that shame is common to all humanity as a result of the fall. I could have been more clear about that in the post. Jesus came to take away our shame. So any person or system that increases our shame is going against the work of Christ.
I’m really glad you didn’t feel shame at the HA. Unfortunately, a lot of people do. And it is not limited to my examples above…when someone runs out of willpower to have their daily quiet times, they most likely experience shame. That is not right.
You mentioned that you felt shame from inner conviction. I sure hope not. Shame is from the enemy. Shame drives us away from Jesus, while conviction of the Holy Spirit drives us to Jesus. Perhaps that is what you meant.
Lastly, I strongly disagree with you that the idea of an elite warrior or the aura of a statesman is Scriptural, but I’ve covered that elsewhere.
May 14, 2010 3:02 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Samantha-
You seem pretty polite; it’s a nice change of pace. 🙂 I hope this can be a fruitful conversation.
I will say this, though- at the HA, I know that I felt shame among my peers because I was different from them. I lived out my relationship with the Lord differently (in worship, etc). I felt that my muse was belittled, because it wasn’t “typical” creativity. I was never one to “fit in”, and to have this inability to clique into a group tied to my spirituality was devastating.
I am ELATED that you had a different experience. Honestly 😉
I do have to agree; shame is NOT from the Lord. Hasz may have his own idea of Statemanship, but he has NO RIGHT to shame others into agreeing with him.
May 14, 2010 3:18 PM
Eric P. said…
Interesting; wasn’t Gideon specifically groomed by God to be pretty much the opposite of an “elite warrior”?
“No, you’ve got way too many people in your army here, so people might start thinking you have the aura of a statesman; let’s cut it down to a few hundred and arm them with water jugs and trumpets…” (cf. Judges 7:2)
Re my previous comment, of course I can’t say for sure, but I’ve also talked to abuse survivors (especially in early stages) who seem to think it’s shameful to admit how much shame they feel. To me the bluster “I’ve got nothing to be ashamed of!” speaks as loudly as those who have a clearer realization of their emotions. But, again, the operative word is “most” not “all.”
May 14, 2010 3:27 PM
Samantha Salazar said…
@RA: I probably should have been more clear about shame spurring from inner conviction. You’re right. Shame IS from the enemy. My thought was more on the lines of, “When I choose to walk away from God, I feel ashamed because I know I know better. I am choosing sin when I know that is not the path I should be taking.”
Hm. I can somewhat see your point on feeling shame from running out of willpower to have quiet times. I’ve definitely run out of motivation for sure, but even while I was at the HA, I understood that the reason why they pushed quiet times was because they wanted us to connect with God at least -bare minimum- once a day to just.. walk with Him. I saw it in my own life that unless I made it a priority to connect with God, I’d let it slide for days, and then weeks, and then soon enough, months. Isn’t that the point of the HA to begin with? To be in an environment where you can just seek the face of God &walk with Him &be raised up?
You should direct me to that post. I’ll definitely try to read up on it after finals are over.
@nunquam: Haha, thank you. I’m not a fan of trolling. It’s pretty useless when people are trying to have decent conversations.
Hm. I’m just trying to clarify. Was that shame something you sensed from your peers? Or something they confronted you with?
I’m glad too. It was definitely a good couple of yrs for me.
May 14, 2010 3:54 PM
Samantha Salazar said…
@Eric: Hm. Actually, I don’t think so. I think that the numbers in his army aren’t necessarily related to how elite of a warrior God raised him up to be. I feel like that verse was to refute Israel’s pride. Instead of “people might think you have the aura of a statesmen,” I see that verse as, “You have too many people in your army. Israel might forget that it is I who won the victory; that is it My power & love that protects them, rather than their own might.” I guess pride doesn’t equate to the aura of a statesmen in my mind. What are your thoughts?
May 14, 2010 4:03 PM
reluctant-intern said…
Good post. Shame wasn’t an all-encompassing feeling that I had during my year there. It wasn’t something that consumed me then or now. But there WERE things that left me feeling shamed. Like the quiet times. Or not working out enough. Or not having enough faith. Or being too silly. Or not memorizing the verses you were supposed to for that week. Or spending too much time with a friend of the opposite sex. Or not having some deep, amazing passion for the mission field. The list goes on. Those are all things that at one point or another I felt a level of shame over. Have I lost sleep over it? No. But 12 years later, those are all circumstances I can play back in my mind word-for-word.
All that being said – I have felt the same level of shame from fellow Christians and church members/leaders so it’s definitely not exclusive to TM. I remember once (many years ago) in our house church of about 10 couples, they did a weekly devotional that you were supposed to do at home and discuss during church. One week, the leader went around couple to couple asking if they did their devotions every day. We stopped going a few weeks after that – we were adults. We didn’t need a spiritual babysitter.
May 14, 2010 4:12 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Samantha- it was a combo deal. It was something that was, on one hand, obvious. But my peers (even supervisors) definitely had no problem publically “confronting” me on very insignificant issues. I saw it happen with other friends, where they were called out for being “out of line”, in a very graceless and shaming way (example: saying the word “pee” in front of the opposite gender).
May 14, 2010 4:15 PM
Eric P. said…
@Samantha– I’d pretty much concur with that.
Probably my main issue is that phrases like “elite warrior” and “statesman” seem to me to be at odds with a genuine biblical model of leadership, seen in this story and elsewhere (John 13 comes to mind): God “opposes the proud and gives grace to the humble.” Thinking “I’m an elite warrior statesman” would not do very much good to my own humility, for one!
And of course in ch. 6 it seems that God specifically chose Gideon because he was the Israelite who least fit the type of “mighty warrior”– “My clan is the weakest in Manasseh, and I am the least in my family.” In Paul’s phrase, God chooses the weak things of the world to humble the wise.
In other words, God’s model of leadership is much more topsy-turvy than the picture we usually get. The least is the greatest and the greatest is the least. So trying to be the most elite and disciplined “leader” is counterproductive.
Just some random thoughts.
May 14, 2010 4:38 PM
Anonymous said…
Shame was definitely a factor in my internship experience. I worked in the Exec Office and remember quite vividly feeling shame constantly and feeling that I could never quite measure up. I was even confronted because I didn’t know how to make a pot of coffee. And not in a loving way. In a “Are you an idiot?” way.
I felt shame because I was in love with my (now) husband and I knew I was before I went to the internship. This was FORBIDDEN at TM and so I was told over and over that I should repent and that it was God’s will that he and I not speak. I ended up hurting him because I was trying to conform to TM standards. Thank God my husband is a wonderful, loving, God fearing man. God has used him to help me heal after TM.
I hated the fact that breaking a rule at TM was equivalent to sinning against God. Even if it was a small rule like not having our room spotless for room checks. Even if my room was spotless 9 out of 10 times, as soon as we messed up, there was no grace.
I felt shame for a lot of things, and most of them were not convictions from the Holy Spirit.
May 14, 2010 5:23 PM
Jacqueline said…
I felt shame when Judy told me the devil hand his hands on my mind because I honestly had a differing opinion than she did. I felt shame when I was told I wasn’t a good enough ACA, I felt shame when my CA made an enormous list of my short comings, I felt shame when I filled out my debit card because there was never a chance to get credits.
NOT only were these negative things happening, the most upsetting thing of all was that the alternative GOOD things weren’t happening. That’s where the sadness really lives.
I felt shame when I committed to never say anything negative about TMM and so many negative things happened, so I was to contain them for the rest of my life because obviously something was wrong about ME.
May 14, 2010 7:09 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Chris,
I am so excited that the “owner” of the Honor Academy Facebook page has graced our presence. I wanted to publicly thank you for 1)Blocking me from the HA fb page 2) Confusing defamation with truth and 3) reporting me to facebook for allowing others to see both sides of the story.
[sarcasm] Thank you for your ever so loving and Christ like attitude. It makes me prouder every day to know that I once associated myself with people of your kind… you know Jesus Lovers. [/sarcasm]
May 14, 2010 10:53 PM
Shannon Kish said…This post has been removed by the author.May 14, 2010 10:58 PM
Shannon Kish said…
I was being sarcastic and wasn’t very nice. I apologize. I just find it amusing that the person that blocks free speech and the telling of truth on the “Official” HA facebook page is coming to our part of the interwebs.
May 14, 2010 11:01 PM
Anonymous said…
I felt shame for acting so much more spiritual/superior than my family, friends and church family back home, (because they weren’t as good as me since they didn’t go to the HA) when they were the ones who helped and supported me in puttting the pieces of my life back together after TM.
May 15, 2010 1:30 AM
Anonymous said…
Shannon, I’m confused what your talking about….where is a comment from Chris? Who’s Chris? Lol, why get upset and feed them?…I mean I understand why you would get upset but why feed them…ya know?
May 15, 2010 6:57 PM
Liz (Engskow) Davila said…
Great post, RA.
You hit the nail right on the head. Whether, or not there are interns who felt shamed, I have felt often that over time TMM has molded into a “personality cult” where personality traits can be touted, or substituted, as Godliness. There is a lot of confusion and/or shame that can come from this kind of teaching.
May 16, 2010 1:30 PM
Shannon Kish said…
Anon, Chris is one of the first commenters on this post under the name Chris Desroachers
May 16, 2010 2:12 PM
kimlynn1225 said…
Good post RA,
The problem with Pharisees is that they don’t know they are in fact Pharisees. It is never okay to make another person feel “shame”. I was told that I was too loud, agressive, my sarcasm was a sin, etc. The list could go on and on.
Pharisees think that they have no sin and because they have no sin, they are equipped to point out the sins of everyone else. I saw this a lot at HA as I sat on the Honor Council. Being self-righteus is just as guilty as the sin that is being judged.
That’s why the scripture says “no one knows the spirit of a man except the Spirit” (Holy Spirit). He is the convictor not us. We are to love. That’s what makes the gospel attractive not condemning everyone to Hell.
I would just ask the question to Ron or Dave. How do you know who is in Heaven or Hell? Have you seen the Lamb’s book of life? Have you been?
That’s why we should leave the judging to Christ who is the Righteous Judge
Just my thoughts
May 16, 2010 7:52 PM
Anonymous said…
Rules provide a necessary guide for decision making.
With that as the foundation, how would you change the rules at TM? Which rules should go away?
How should the rules be enforced?
How do you think a change in rules would affect the people involved in the HA?
Disclaimer: Remaining anonymous on purpose… but for the record, I have completed the HA program. I have never been on staff with TM. I’m not saying the rules are all right or properly enforced. Just trying to get an image of what people here think would be appropriate changes.
May 17, 2010 9:29 AM
Venus said…
I have a friend who went to the HA against my advice. I went on a mission’s trip with them for 2 months and it was an experience and a half. (I was 21 and they threatened to call my parents for my rebellious attitude..I didn’t even live with my parents anymore) Anyway…I would love some advice. My friend is constantly begging for money. I can’t give her any because I honestly think she would be better off at home. Twice now she has run out of money and TM kicked her off the campus. She had to go live with some friends until she could raise the money again. I really feel like they are ripping her off, but I also don’t want to be mean because right now she is convinced that without the HA her life will be ruined. Is there a secret HA Christianeze way to tell her that maybe it is God’s will that she come home rather than wasting hundreds of more dollars?
May 17, 2010 10:07 PM
Anonymous said…
Venus, unfortunately there is nothing you can say to someone that steeped in the TM brainwashing that will make them think it is “OK” to leave. AT ALL. If someone leaves, even at the time that tough decision is made they “know” they are facing shame and defeat. I know first hand. I left the HA early.
May 17, 2010 11:37 PM
Susie (Belknap) Specht said…
Venus-
You are right to say that she is convinced that without finishing her year she is mud. Tread lightly…I wonder if you might do well to tell her and show her the qualities you see in her: compassion, purity of heart, generosity…Things that are not warrior-like but more Christ-like. Let her see that she is good. Continue to refuse to support her, and show her that if she ends up leaving, she will not be ruined because she has so much worth as is.
Beyond that I don’t know…it’s so hard when you are in it to see other points of view.
May 17, 2010 11:40 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Venus – I think you are getting good advice here, and maybe a few more people will chime in as well. My initial thoughts are that if you directly say anything against the HA, she will think you are “persecuting” her or that the enemy is trying to use you to distract her. So, I would consider keeping anything you say as indirect a “confrontation” as possible. Maybe ask questions that might get her thinking without giving her the answers…
When she does get home, she will eventually crash and burn and she’ll need a friend like you to be there for her. You sound like a great friend and she is blessed to have someone like you caring for her while she is in this situation. I know that a lot of us wish we could have had someone as understanding and caring as you when we crashed. So, even if you feel helpless right now, your role will be important in the future.
May 18, 2010 12:15 AM
