I was an intern in January of 1999. I dropped out of college in the middle of my sophomore year, convinced that I was supposed to be a world changer. I was placed as an Administrative Assistant. I had zero office experience, but I was willing to learn. I was also placed in a position where I would get to travel and do some fun things, and I was excited.
My boss, Nicki, was intense, to say the least. She was an extreme perfectionist, and demanded perfection from everyone around her. She was relentless in her pursuit to make me perfect, to expand my professional capacity. I did my very best to get it right, but some how I never was able to meet her mark of excellence. Almost every day, she confronted me on something I was doing wrong . I worked for her for 4.5 months, and during that time, I cried almost daily. If she gave me vague directions, and I asked her for further clarification, she told me to “just make it happen.” She told me that I wasn’t allowed to leave for the day until I had finished everything on my “To-Do” list. I came in at 7:30 every morning, and I ended up staying until 7 or 8 most nights, and worked the weekends that I wasn’t on the road. And it really didn’t matter how “right” I got something because she found something to criticize. She even told me that I needed to ask myself in every scenario, “What would Nicki do?” The crazy thing is that I was really really good at that job. I even did a training for all of the other assistants.
At one point in February, I developed walking pneumonia. I struggled thru an in-state ATF, came back Saturday night, and slept for 24 hrs straight. I had a temp of 104, and Nicki insisted that I come into work the next day. I could barely stand up straight. I said I was too sick to come in, and she said that I had to go to the doctor because she didn’t think sick days were necessary for interns. So, I shelled out $250 to go to the doc and get a note and an antibiotic. And even though the doctor said to stay home for at least 5 days, Nicki made it clear that I had no choice but to come back as soon as my fever broke.
She would stalk me, too. She would sneak up behind me to make sure that I was doing my work (which I was too terrified NOT to do). She would call the dorm after work hours to check on something for work. One day, I had to go upstairs to GE to use their copier b/c ours was broken. She followed me up there and started yelling at me (yes, actually yelling) for wandering all over the building. (She was convinced that if I wasn’t at my desk then I couldn’t be doing something productive.) I tried to tell her that I was using their copier, but she wouldn’t listen. Brenda Bertrand happened to be walking by at that moment, and she stopped, saw what Nicki was doing, and pulled her out into the hallway and gave her the third degree. BB told Nicki that there was absolutely no reason to talk to me that way, or ANYONE for that matter. It was unprofessional, unkind, and uncalled for. Nicki tried to argue, but BB cut her off and then Nicki stormed away.
BB followed up with me a couple of weeks later. She told me that she had spoken to Nicki AGAIN after that initial confrontation in the hallway, and wondered if Nicki had apologized to me. I told her no. BB asked if Nicki had continued to treat me that way, and I said yes. Then she told me that I needed to talk to Dave about it, and I just shut down at that point. Dave was so intimidating to me, and then I felt like I was “speaking ill” of Nicki, which TM prohibited. So, I kept on doing what I was doing.
I asked Brenda to be reassigned, just before Nicki got a promotion to Executive. Nicki’s promotion was a blessing, for sure. But then that left Recruiting without a leader, right before summer, and I was the only one who knew what was going on. So, then I had to report to Dave. I generated reports and graphs and gave presentations to the Exec Board that summer because there was nobody else to do it. I led the Recruiting team meetings everyday. There was a lot of pressure to have a class as big as the previous August. Ron was putting pressure on Dave, so Dave put pressure on me, and I put pressure on my team. I was very clear that no January intern should ever be in control like that. And yes, Dave yelled. More than that, though, he belittled, which was the worst. I already felt like crap, and I really needed some kindness and support. In a moment of total frustration about the less-than-record-breaking incoming class numbers, he yelled “What is it that you actually do? I think you might not even be qualified to work in the mailroom!” That devastated me. I worked so hard, with no experience, and no support. What more could a 20 year old do? My roommate told me to speak to my adviser (who was fired later in the summer), but she seemed unable to fit me into her schedule, and had a difficult time remembering my name when she passed me in the hall.
I had high hopes for August. Even though I was sad to see so many friends leave, I was excited to have a new boss, a new CA, a new Staff Advisor. It was kind of a new beginning, and I wanted that more than anything else. However, I was once again pushed into a position of leadership. I intentionally did not apply to be an ACA, but I was assigned a room anyway, even though there were several Januaries who wanted to do it and were denied. I protested; said that I was uncomfortable with it, and that I just wanted to enjoy the last four months of my internship. It was useless, though. I was told there was nobody else to do it, and it was my duty as a January. I was also nominated for the Honor Council that fall, and I said no to that as well. Thankfully, Mercer listened and did not push me into such a demanding position.
That was also the first year of ESOAL…and I did not participate. I was a complete emotional wreck by that point. I received very confrontational emails about my lack of participation, about how I was letting my fellow interns down, and since I was a naturally “gifted” leader, it was my responsibility to set an example. And I failed.
That semester, my Core Advisor quit. She didn’t feel like it was good for her to stay, that she was ill-equipped to be in that position, and I was so angry and hurt. I said and did many things that I regret, and thankfully, we have reconciled our relationship and are now very good friends. But I was so judgmental and harsh with her for leaving. I cringe to think about how rigid and unloving I was. But that left us with only one Core Adviser for our whole wing. Once again, I was asked to fill a leadership role that I did not sign up for. Then the final blow was when my Adviser quit the first week of November, and we were left without ANYONE to lead us or support us. The one remaining CA and I carried our wing for the last two months and did our best to love and support the girls who felt the most abandoned. Neither of us slept thru the night until we went home at Christmas. We had girls waking us up at all hours, crying, needing counsel, needing a woman who could help them make sense of the challenges we were all facing. Nobody in leadership addressed it, or spoke directly to us about it, nor would they answer our questions. It was beyond overwhelming and exhausting.
During the internship, I became very ill. I was sick for most of my time there, and went thru 8 months of doctors and hospitals after I graduated in December. I had developed an ulcer, hypoglycemia, anemia, and extreme adrenal fatigue. Those symptoms, which I developed during the Internship, masked a very serious and chronic health condition that I still struggle with today. Every doctor that I went to during that 8 month period was horrified by the physical and emotional conditions at TM, and one even suggested suing them. I would not consider it then, or even now. But that doctor sent a very blunt email to Dave Hasz about the sub-par living conditions.
After the Internship, I stopped going to church for over a year. I honestly felt like I had been a part of a cult-like community, and needed to unplug entirely. I wandered in and out of church for the next 8 years. I was still sure that I had to do missions, though. So, I did. By the time I was 26, I was CEO of an international medical mission organization as well as the separate funding organization for the mission. Even after all that time, I still felt like I had to do my duty. It was much less about Jesus, and much more about my ego and fulfilling a calling that I felt like I HAD to do in order for God to love me, and for Dave Hasz to approve of me. So at 28, I had everything I had ever dreamed of, and was completely miserable. I wanted to live a life of loving people, being Jesus with skin on. Instead, I recreated the only experience I’d ever had with missions, and I became Intern Carrie. I despised myself. I despised how I was treating people. And more than anything, I hated the wife I became to my new husband. I was traveling all the time, and when I was home, I was too busy and tired to have any meaningful interaction with him. But it was worth it, right? Because I was doing what God wanted me to do. I was doing what had been modeled for me, for how to do full time ministry. I lost my First Love, and then lost everything else shortly after. I resigned from the medical mission organizations, got a normal job where I got to love people, and didn’t have to live up to some crazy expectation. I started seeing a counselor, and really started working on my heart. I stopped trying to save the world, because I stopped believing that I had to. I rested in Jesus and His Love for me. My husband and I worked very hard on restoring our marriage, and we have made a tremendous recovery. I still have to check myself at times and remember that God does not judge actions, he judges the heart. And more than anything, I want to live in paradigm of His Love.
So, maybe this is a much longer story than you asked for, or I planned. But it was my experience. I am so grateful for all of my friends, however. The bond we developed there is for life, and for those lasting friendships, I do not regret TM.
38 comments:
Carrie – thanks for sharing – I had a similar experience health and otherwise and can definitely relate to your whole experience…one of my biggest concerns about the HA is the way everyone is expected to fall under blanket expectations that may not be realistic, healthy, or safe for each individual. I didn’t do ESOAL either for pretty much the same reasons and had the same reactions from other interns to the point where I started feeling like something was wrong with me for being exhausted and not physically being able to handle it – Crazy. Anyways, after several years, seeking professional counseling, walking away from the church, and some really rough times, I’ve finally been able to come back to understand God’s grace and love for me without all of the incredibly legalistic burdens the HA placed on me. Thank God!
BTW, did you go to Russia in 98? I think we were at the HA at the same time (I came in August 99) and I’m trying to figure out if I know you 🙂 Anyway, I’m glad to know you’re doing well and are recovering (as am I) from the whole TM experience.
i DID go to russia in 98! that’s great. i would love to reconnect. my email is dickson.carrie at gmail.com. and thank you for the encouragement. this was difficult to write, but i feel certain that it is the right thing for me to do.
Carrie, thanks. I really value every story that gets put on here. This is quite a big picture that’s coming together on this little blog.
Carrie, thanks so much for sharing your experience. I hate the pain I caused in my part of your story, but I am so glad we are still in touch, and understand each other. How crazy is it how many of us have needed counseling after TM? Love you girl. M.R.
Hey Carrie. Wow that is an amazing story – and to see that things are still just as bad now at the HA, if not worse in some areas! Mainly because a lot of the staff now are alumni
“I had a temp of 104, and Nicki insisted that I come into work the next day. I could barely stand up straight. I said I was too sick to come in, and she said that I had to go to the doctor because she didn’t think sick days were necessary for interns.”
… wow. Seriously??? Oh but I’m sure if SHE were sick… urrgh. I’m so sorry for your experience here :/
I took a sick day once because my I had a really bad stye infection thing in my eye (it was caked shut when I woke up, and the nurse said it sounded a LOT like pink eye, and suggested that I take the day off).
My supervisor then informed me that I had wasted a sick day :/ He was pretty great for the most part, but all that to say that, yes, the attitude toward illness is pretty standard there.
As angry as I get when I read these stories, it’s a great reminder for me to learn to forgive them. I mean, I’m pretty new to this whole concept of “recovery”, but that’s no excuse to stay angry. Thank you, Carrie (and indirectly RA), for the wake-up call 🙂
(That isn’t to say that I think any of you guys struggle with unforgiveness; not at all! Just remarking on how hard it is for me, and how sobering it is to know that I’m no better than any spritual abuser.)
Nunquam,
thanks for your thoughts. i hear what you are saying about spiritual abuse and forgiveness. i was setting myself up to be the abuser in my organization, and thankfully, received a wake-up call before i could get very far. it is incredibly easy to fall into those patterns if unaware of detrimental behavior.
i also believe that i can only forgive what i am willing to accept about myself and my own capabilities. i posses the ability to inflict just as much pain, and more, on those i am community with. for the most part, i have forgiven TM in general, and still have love in my heart for the people i knew there. every now and then some jagged edges will crop up, and i have to go thru the process of forgiveness again, but that’s okay. it just gives me another opportunity to forgive them…and myself. i still hurt over how i treated some (like M.R.) and was a complete jerk. i believe that God makes all things new…eventually. He does it for me everyday, and that is my hope for TM as well.
This whole “sickness” thing – It’s not just Teen Mania i’ve noticed. It’s also quite a large volume of the Christian community that mis-read and misunderstand (AND misuse) the scripture in proverbs that says “Life and death are in the power of the tongue” (Proverbs 18:21). I did it myself to the guys that were under me during my year too!
Wow, I am very concerned. After reading these comments, TM doesn’t seem as spirit-filled as they lead others to believe. My whole staff was wanting to go to leadership meetings but, now I am, having secong thoughts. I am so disappointed.
All of this is exaggerated LIES. I’ve known Dave for 3 years, am very close to him and know for a FACT that he would NEVER do the following:
In a moment of total frustration about the less-than-record-breaking incoming class numbers, he yelled “What is it that you actually do? I think you might not even be qualified to work in the mailroom!”
PLEASE STOP being a source of deception and dissension.
“and to see that things are still just as bad now at the HA, if not worse in some areas! Mainly because a lot of the staff now are alumni”
I am here now – and things are NEVER like this at ALL. What is stated in this story, would NEVER be allowed at all in the Teen Mania that I have been in for the last several years.
The behavior by leadership at Teen Mania is infuriating. I remember the feelings of intimidation and fear as well, even though it was a much smaller group and we all had much more direct contact with David Hasz. And all in the name of God! Unfortunately, it took this kind of ridiculous experience for me to take me down the path I am today, which as I have stated, is alive with color and beauty and discovery. I am so grateful that I broke free!
Moriah what year where you there? Just curious- I was there part Tulsa year (the year we moved to TX)…
To the Anon- i’m intrigued that you act like that is not possible- either you are clueless to what is happening around you- or you are in denial- the things that are stated here are NOT lies- they weren’t lies over 10yrs ago- i highly doubt their lies now!
Anonymous – I would like to know who you are? Although I have an idea of who you could be if you’re still at Teen Mania and have been for the past several years or so? Because there’s not that many of you still there that have been there for that long.
But I’m also sure that you’d like to know who all of us are too?
Just keep a look out for the things that we have mentioned in our comments and in the blog posts because it does happen
Anonymous – I think part of the reason you may not see these things going on while you are there is that while at the HA, everyone tries to act like nothing is wrong and not show any weakness (at least that’s how I acted and what other people on this blog have said). However, I think it’s hard to deny these things go on given all the true stories listed on this blog and the fact that there are probably many more (including myself) that have just not posted their story yet. Again, when someone immersed in this culture and told not to question anything, I’m not surprised that they would not see anything like this going on.
Okay, normally I laugh at comments that try to claim that this doesn’t happen, but to go to somebody’s story and call them a liar is ABSOLUTELY uncalled for.
How dare you go around and act like you know everything? You obviously weren’t there, and you obviously don’t know that Hasz is human, just like the rest of us, therefore capable of mistakes.
You’re only proving the point that interns come out arrogant and brainwashed, enraged at the slightest notion that their precious leader could possibly ever be in err.
I know because I was just like you when I left. I really, truly pray that your eyes are opened.
If I were Carrie, I’d be very offended that you are calling me a liar. It is not easy to share these stories and its even less easy to actually work through the hurt that TM caused.
I would delete your comment if there weren’t already so many responses.
to anonymous:
“PLEASE STOP being a source of deception and dissension.”
i am curious how closely you work(ed) with Dave…what your daily proximity to him is/was? i am also curious as to how you can say with such certainty that my experience is fabricated. i am not offended by it, so much as i am grieved that your unconditional devotion would lead you to such a harsh and faulty judgment. i also see 20 year old carrie in your comments…and that is what grieves me most of all.
this may not have been your experience, and i respect that. but this was mine. i hope one day you are able to see the full spectrum of your experience there, and others. when that happens, i would really like to be your friend.
RA,
Why do you continue to cause division? Forgive those at TM that caused you offense and give it over to God. You are recipient of God’s grace and forgiveness. Extend grace and forgiveness to those who have hurt you.
“I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.” – 1 Corinthians 1:10
“Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.” – Colossians 3:13
I appreciate that Carrie is gracious about this response to her story. I am glad this example of blind devotion is able to be left on the site as a testament to visitors of the brainwashed, closed minded view, alot of us ex interns were sent away from TM with.
HA Staff,
Why do you continue to ignore the need to make significant changes in the way the ministry is run? At least you aren’t here claiming that these offenses never happened. Thats a good thing. But, we have stories here spanning 10+ years of alumni and ex interns with the common themes of abuse and mistreatment.
Forgiveness doesn’t mean ignoring that there is a serious problem. We are choosing to do something to stop others from being hurt or helping others who are still hurting find their forgiveness.
I can forgive the man who abused me for 7 years of marriage. But it doesn’t mean I can’t advocate against domestic violence.
HA Staff – Thanks for spamming so many posts with the exact same comment.
I have already forgiven everyone at TM who has hurt me. Lisa has posed good questions to you. I would also ask why you are more interested in “forgiveness” than repentance?
This comment springs to mind:
You are not out of the cult until it is more important to you to see the victims healed of hurt, than to see the abusers shielded from the possibility of hurt feelings.
Read the whole thing here: http://www.sgmsurvivors.com/?p=1332
J 97
Then we know each other. I was an august. you must have been a january. we should connect.
lol, HA Staff has a period.
Nunquam Honorablus – I want to meet you and shake your hand.
DEAR POOPY HEAD RA
ONCE AGAIN, YOU FAIL TO HEED THE CLEAR AND COSMIC PERFECTION OF HA STAFF’S ARGUMENT
IF YOU FORGIVE THEM THEY DON’T HAVE TO REPENT GAH STOP CAUSING DIVISION
Genesis 32:15
thirty female camels with their young, forty cows and ten bulls, and twenty female donkeys and ten male donkeys.
THIS PASSAGE CLEARLY STATES THAT YOU NEED TO STOP BEING A JESUS POOPER AND STOP PRACTICING WITCHCRAFT
NOW STOP SAYING FART
SERIOUSLY
Oh gravy, I smell a running gag!
Cesna, you need to have a face-to-face debate with Hasz, in that exact format.
Everytime somebody makes a post in defense of the HA, that should be what they expect. We’re setting standards here, people!
And Diane, I am flattered! Perhaps… someday… that can be arranged.
*American flag backdrop*
when i first found this blog, a really eerie creepy feeling washed over me- who is this person who doesn’t like the HA?? THEN- a second eerie feeling washed over me- What if the HA wasn’t who they pretended to be?? I took a deep breath and kept reading- and my whole world changed. Thank you all so much for sharing your stories. The HA is nothing but a dysfunctional family that pretends they have it all together. Not cool.
I was in Carrie’s class and can vouch for her 100 Percento!
If you had worked closely with the “higher ups”, as we had, then you were bound to witness this type of pressure/treatment firsthand.
The HA taught us to “hold others accountable.” I cannot understand why that rule would not apply to them? I do not understand this state of denial they are in.
People are flawed and people make up the machine of the organization which then makes it impervious to neglect or dysfunction?
Logic has clearly gone out the window.
Also whatever happened to the whole “Truth in Love” they taught us too? I don’t see anyone here being hateful, except for the ones name calling.
HA Staff:
Ummm yeah.
Im down with forgiveness. But seriously?
People who didn’t feel remorseful or repentant for their sin in the HA were tossed out with the garbage. I have seen neither repentance or remorse for mistreatment by anyone who actually holds high ranking at HA/TM.
I can tell you that the conditions here at Teen Mania are very different today and that I am sorry that was your experience.
Current Intern…
sorry, but you are either lying or delusional
Ohhh, I can SO relate to your post, Carrie. I also experienced a very negative and painful experience with my manager at TM, before you were there. She expected the same types of things “You need to learn to take initiative.” “You need to take this project and run with it.” I had NEVER had a job before the internship. I had no clue what I was doing, but I was doing the best that I could. Eventually it came down to me being “fired” (as I call it) because she just didn’t like me. I was so hurt for many years after that.
J97, moriah
remeber the move from Tulsa, all the cow boxes.
the days weeks and even months of no sleep (and that was just the start of it) to get everything setup and running.
The whole beat your body and make it your slave. and we can sleep when your dead. one more lap we going to be moutian goats.
We had no washing machines for two months.
How all our cloths/shoes were red.
how on a daily basis you were torn down and told this will make you a better person and sharpen you Spiritually.
since your time there how do you feel it changed, grew, molded you. I would like to hear.
drop me a line at mm@vegas.com
Thanks
MM
So I’m about 95% positive that I worked for the same Nicki during my internship year, also as her AA. I was a few years after Carrie but I can see a lot of similarities in what she says vs. my own experience. I will say I think Nicki had changed (improved) a little by the time I came along. She never yelled at me. She definitely was an extreme perfectionist and was very demanding though. I was in the same boat too in that I didn’t have a lot of experience in an office but was immediately given tasks to do that required quite a bit of office experience. I had never really worked with Excel in my life and much of what I needed to do involved that program. I ended up teaching myself most of what I needed b/c I was terrified to ask Nicki for help. Especially in the beginning, I remember having to fight back tears all throughout the day b/c I had so much to do in so little time. I could barely pay attention in class after work b/c the burden was so great. There was a section of our “Accountability Card” or whatever it was called where we were supposed to mark if we had worked overtime that week. The one time I marked “yes”, Nicki told me to never do that again…but she definitely didn’t stop me when she saw that I was working past time. Most of the girls who worked around me constantly told me how they were so glad Nicki wasn’t their boss b/c she scared them too. I don’t think I realized how abusive our work relationship was until a few years after leaving. The one blessing of the situation is that I am great at what I do today, just not constantly scared of my boss 🙂
I will say Nicki was very kind to me outside of work. However, a couple of years after my year there I tried to contact her. We did talk on the phone and I told her how badly I desired to have a mentor in my life. From what I remember she ended our conversation rather abruptly (got another call or something) but promised she would call me back. She never has.
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