Comments on the Show: Recovering Alumni ONLY

I can not believe what I am watching! This is HORRIBLE! I feel for these teens! This is NOT what the Lord would want for these kids lives!! NO ONE SHOULD HAVE TO GO THOUGH THAT! My heart is with you all and you are so BRAVE for telling your stories!

I am having a major panic attach watching this. I feel so stupid.
I am shaking watching this.

I’ve been to many Aquire the Fire events (and have been blessed each and every year), but I am surprised to see the story being ran on MSNBC right now. Very disappointed to hear some stories from theses people on here.

My old church fell pray to a group called G-12 or “The Model of Jesus”. I’m sorry these teens had to go through this. This is NOT at all what God wants for his chidlren.

Brian, you aren’t stupid. My anxiety is high.

I cannot handle this — it was all fun and games for a while, admitting they hurt me — but seeing this, seeing what they did, and that it hurt more than just me… i’m having an anxiety attack, and just want someone to hear me.

So much was left unsaid. It scares the smug look Ron got on his face when he said the HA wasn’t for everyone… I felt such judgement coming through the screen, yet again.. 🙁

This brought tears to my eyes tonight. I don’t feel safe using my real name. It’s been 13 years, and I am still recovering. I just wanted to make a difference in the world.

What would you say to a person who had a positive experience from esoal?
In 2007 I had cancer and during my chemo, my thoughts of quitting were taken back to Esoal when I made a decision not to quit. I understand some were hurt there, but I can because of it, I survived a battle for my life.

RA~ You conveyed exactly how I feel in your sentiment about not being angry about the two years that you were there, but rather the subsequent 10 years. I’ve been involved with Teen Mania in many different capacities for probably close to 20 years now– maybe one day soon I will share my story too.

They left out SO much.
The condemnation for struggling, the “pray away” mental illness.
All I can do is sit here and cry.

somehow it hurts worse right now than it ever has.

You guys are so right. A lot of feelings were brought up that haven’t been there for a while.

I know that for me, the hardest part has been the 10 years I have lost and the inability to have a social life and/or communicate effectively anymore.

Its a good thing to feel your feelings. Don’t stuff them.. I encourage everyone to Uuse this as an opportunity to process your feelings in a supportive environment.

Uck, uck, uck. Everyone who had a panic attack watching this definitely not alone. I felt highly anxious through the whole thing and now I’m nursing away an upset stomach. I’m feeling so much love for all of the recovering alumni who put themselves out there by being in this documentary. Thank you for being so brave and open with your pain. It’s only been three years since I was in the Honor Academy and I cannot imagine being that open about my experiences yet.

Watching was definitely an anxiety trigger for me as well. I’m glad I did though and I’m glad my friends and family were given a taste of what I endured that I’d never had the courage to tell them before. Thank you MSNBC for giving us this chance, thank you ladies for sharing your experiences so openly, and thank you to those who do not share our experience yet can see our humble humanity in this and extend to us grace.

This was super hard for me to watch as well, as the fear of judgement from HA staff still weighs very heavily on me. To this day it freaks me out that I shared my story on the blog, but I am glad I did. I am so proud of the ladies who were vulnerable in this segment. I was crying as I felt the heartbreak from realizing that the ministry I fell in love with and was so proud to be a part of is not what I thought it was. What a complete letdown. I am just so thankful we didn’t have ESOAL my year. I already have enough issues without adding memories like those!

Somehow my recording got deleted. If anyone recorded it or if you can find an online broadcasting of it, please let me know.

I’m so thankful to all the girls who were interviewed. You all are so brave. I felt queezy all day long. Watching tonight definately triggered a lot. I was shaking the entire time.

Watching RL’s response was so hurtful. Up to this point, I’ve only thought mainly about DH and HS. But watching his smug look on the screen tonight as he brushed this all off as people who don’t like to be challenged hurt deeply. When so many of us have broken lives because we gave so much to “HIS ministry.” He showed and has shown no remorse at all. We were just a part of his Money making extreme machine.

It was a decent overview of the problems, but it’s not the kind of thing that could be covered appropriately in an hour. There’s lots of visible problems, like ESOAL/PEARL, but the bottom line is that everything is caused because they understand the gospel wrongly.

If all I knew of the gospel was from the HA, I would see it as primarily as Jesus dying to forgive my sins, so that I could try again and have a chance to live righteously.

How much sense does it make, if that’s where you start from, to have to repent in earnest tears every time you even THINK about something less than perfectly holy? Perfect sense. How much sense does it make to go to physically and emotionally damaging extremes as a norm to live in a ‘holy’ way? Perfect sense. How much sense does it make to rely on the words of people who appear to have holiness down? Perfect sense.

Would God take you back if you mess up under this version of the gospel? Well, sure, but you’d better be sure you’re fully, genuinely, sorry to the core of your being so you can get your clean slate back and try again, and you’d better be sure of it every time.

The truth is, Jesus didn’t come to give us a clean slate. He gave us a beautiful one. When we say “Jesus took our place on the cross”, it doesn’t only mean he took our punishment, he also gave us his righteousness. It’s such a HUGE difference. Your slate, your record, stays perfect permanently. How does any of that stuff make sense anymore? It doesn’t make any sense! You don’t have to work to make something beautiful if it already is.

I was definitely affected by the lies of the Honor Academy when I was there. For the longest time, I couldn’t figure out what is was exactly that was wrong with what they were teaching, but I knew something was wrong. I had to learn what the gospel really was, then I could begin to hold it up against what they told me. I’m still processing in many ways, but that’s the sum of it. They don’t really know the gospel.

Sick roots, sick tree.

James: None of us knew what we were getting into. Nobody told us we were getting up at 5 am to do a million jumping jacks because someone forgot to not count to three. None of us were told that we would be forced into fasting every other week. None of us were told that if we spoke to someone of the opposite sex, we would be treated like a rapist. None of us were told that we would be forced to believe stuff we dont believe. None of us were told that we had to forgo MEDICAL CARE in the name of Jesus. NONE OF US WERE TOLD THAT WE WOULD BE BRAINWASHED AND FORCED INTO BELIEVING COMPLETE CRAP! Dont come in here saying we are all babies because we were SPRITUALLY RAPED! If someone violated you, I bet you would seek closure. If someone beat you sensless you wouldnt just say EH and move on. You would seek closure. You would seek justice. I for one am not going to stop talking about the terror that HA puts on countless teenagers on a daily basis.

GTHO, Have a nice day.

As always, reading these comments helped me to feel not so very alone. I was ashamed of my own reaction–the anxiety, the tightness in my stomach, the tears–but to see that I wasn’t the only one who watched with these types of reactions is comforting.

RA, I really relate to what you said regarding the time I feel I lost. It’s not the two years I was there that I grieve; it’s all of this time after the fact that feels stolen from me. I never really considered myself to have symptoms of PTSD, as I associated it largely with soldiers coming back from war, and I didn’t believe my experience would even compare. But listening to the list–the social isolation, the mistrust of anyone and everyone, the inability to build new relationships, feeling as though I need to be on guard 24/7 ( ESPECIALLY this one…it’s exhausting!)–it breaks my heart all over again. This pain is real, and raw. I know it sounds terrible, but I really do feel as though TM stole so much from me, and I just want someone to have to answer to it.

Great beginning expose of a ministry that seems to be seeped in narcissism and self righteousness. Teen Mania stole some of my best teenage years.

In Bens words: Sick roots sick tree.

Grateful I quickly threw up what I had been fed within two years of my teen mania exit, but still painfully aware of how bits of it affected me in the following years.

Well, the responses I saw from Dave Hasz and Ron Luce tonight have really made me discouraged about the true intentions of TM. There are some big issues there. Ugh:-(

Never fear guys. I have a feeling burning within that the show will be online before the sun rises tomorrow.

Hey guys, I just wanted to share some love. I hope this encourages someone… It pretty much sums up the hurtful things I believed from TM and how they are lies, the truth about God is much much better. 🙂

http://brookegale.com/2011/10/13/shout-it-from-the-rooftops/

I just want to encourage some of you if you haven’t written your story out yet, to write it out, even if you don’t want to post it on the blog. It really helped me a lot. I wrote mine not even intending it to go on the blog at the time. It was therapeutic. I didn’t even realize how much some things had affected me until I wrote it out. I would encourage you to take the inspiration and courage you are feeling at watching the documentary tonight and write it out if you think you are ready. Thank you to the brave girls who aired their stories tonight!

I totally agree about writing out your story, 1st Time Mommy- i just reread the one I wrote out and it is def a therapeutic thing. I found it was hard to let myself write out the negative parts at first- def partially cuz I felt guilty for breaking the “not allowing the ministry to be displayed in a negative light” rule. But then i realized that rule is dumb. lol

Watching this was cathartic and uncomfortable.

I feel such a sense of betrayal that the time I invested into TM has evolved into something so abusive. I definitely had a mixed experience at TM: some good personal and spiritual growth and some unfortunate problems developed or were further complicated.

I hope that this show is able to help alumni and those of our friends and family better able to understand what we have gone through. I know that it was for me as I spent an hour talking with my mother after the show and I have a number of things to discuss with my friends and siblings that saw the show. Progress comes slowly. But it is welcome.

The show should also help put more pressure on TM’s leadership to be accountable for the issues that hurt so many and make positive change. It would be unhealthy to hold out expectations that we will hear that TM will make more changes and fully admit to what has happened when the upcoming November alumni call happens. But we can hope and continue to pray and leave our lives in God’s hands.

Keep talking and seeking wholeness in Christ from our time with TM.

God Bless and may you Be a blessing ~ Blue Lantern

much I’d like to say but I’ve got to work in the morning.

Ron said the HA isn’t for everybody? Wow, then maybe they should change their marketing strategy and quit encouraging any and everyone to come!

Sheesh, I was the writer for the GE marketing team… and it was all about getting the numbers into to the necessary slots.

I can’t believe the level of heart break I felt/feel watching this tonight. I left TM 12 years ago part way through my second year. I didn’t know I had so much to still work through. Watching Ron and Dave talk it was like being let down all over again. It is incredible to me that Ron can be so out of touch that his answer to “some people feeling hurt” is that they maybe just didn’t want an “in your face challenge”. I thought he was out of touch, but I hadn’t felt the cruelty in his insistence to hanging on to his delusion of his impact on our lives. Hasz was the same as always I thought – teaching mastery without mercy.

Who are these men I followed? What is in their hearts? I am angry and hurt and grasping for a better understanding of the state of their hearts and mind. But it won’t fix anything. I am probably just attempting to avoid feeling the anger and disappointment and pain at their colossal failure.

Marcia Ranahan

Watching this was both a relief and difficult to go down that path again. i’ve lived in a denial, looking for answers without knowing why. i have fallen into all kinds of escapes. i have never admitted in a serious manner, but yes i am a survivor of a cult. i am still at almost the age of 30 dealing with the guilt, the shame, the complete avoidance of the church”and the god i went out to find. what part of this was real?

I’m watching it right now and looking back, I don’t know how I thought it was normal and a good idea. When I was there, LTE’s were still retreats. I was a missionary for the Unreached People Groups Retreat. When we went through “Customs”, my passport was stolen by an agent and I was taken to jail and lined up with other people who had been arrested where we were all asked if we were Christians. I was the only one who said “Yes, I am.”. I was taken out back by an agent who turned out to be an underground believer and told to run. I had no idea where my group was and went wandering around trying to figure out where to go without being re-captured. I found my group again but we encountered another group of police who were on patrol and since naturally I didn’t have any papers to prove my identity, I was taken back to jail where I was forced to get down on my belly and low-crawl across the floor continuously to mop up the mud and water. I didn’t get any food or water or anything and was wearing my own clothes (they were ruined, gotta love the red dirt). The only way to get out was to promise that I wouldn’t try to convert anyone, but I felt like if I did that I was failing and compromising my integrity. Eventually I said that I promised I wouldn’t… I can’t remember how I phrased it… basically semantics. I wouldn’t use a certain phrase.
I was released and finished out the retreat. My things had been confiscated to one of the Quonset Huts the first time I was arrested, I never did get my stuff back which was frustrating since that included my nice sleeping bag. It seems to me that there should have been a real non-retreat system for making sure belongings were documented and guarded and returned to their rightful owners once the retreat was over instead of being left in an isolated unguarded Hut.

I’m still not sure what the purpose was to making me mop the floor on my belly. I can’t remember a thing the guards said to me that entire time een though I know they did. All I remember is that time spent going back and forth, back and forth. I think I may have eventually taken off my sweater and used it as a rag so that I could go on my hands and knees but I can’t even remember that.

I started bawling my eyes out halfway through. I morn not just what happened because I left and because I chose to leave I had always felt like I had control over it. Last night I realized so many things I do are because of messages I had coming out of there. It broke my heart and my partner saw for the first time some of my quirks in a new light. He saw the things where I don’t do what he think I ought now for what they are as did I. I was a social butterfly when I stepped into the HA I mourn the fact that I now am afraid to let people in!

So much to say…….. but I have little time right now.

I must say though, that by watching the show I think it’s about time I write my story. It may take a while to get it on paper because I’m incredibly busy, and still need to process some things, but it will happen.

No comments that are judgmental of recovering alumni are allowed in this thread. Please use the debate and discussion thread.

MOM was hard for me to watch. Even though I don’t consider myself to be recovering from the HA per se, I consider myself recovering from a lifetime of spiritual abuse in the same vein of the HA. Watching this took me right back to where I was and it was hard and emotional. I am so thankful for RA and the other girls who had the courage to go through this. I know it wasn’t easy, and I am so proud of you all for making it through.

I just wanted to say you girls are all really brave and I admire you. Thank you for being open and honest with your experiences and giving validation to all of the rest of us who have felt the same way.

The list of mistrust of people, isolation, spontaneous crying, etc. really hit home for me. I remember my first year in college feeling all alone, that I couldn’t trust anyone, and that no one there was a real Christian. One particularly memorable episode occurred after a Campus Crusade event where we went to public university to witness and hand out tracks. On the way back I was sitting by myself crying in the back of the bus and not completely sure exactly why. One of the other participants noticed me, she came back and sat with me, and she listened to me as I poured out my tale of woe of how there were no other real Christians at the school (in bus full of other students who just went on a witnessing expedition!) and how alone I was. She responded with real concern and assured me there were many other real Christians at the school. At that point I began to see that people didn’t have to be part of my HS or TM to be real and people I could trust. The amazing thing (long story short) is that the woman who sat at the back of the bus with me is now my wife!

Unfortunately, the mistrust of people has continued to be part of my life and has made it really difficult to make friends. It’s only been in the last couple years I have even been willing to open up to my wife about many these experiences and struggles that I have. She told me the other day she finally feels like she is getting to know me, and this after more than 10 years of marriage. I had not realized that so many of these issues I have were related to the spiritual abuse I experience in HS at the hand of DH and others.

Those of you who participated in the documentary are incredibly brave! Thank-you for being so open.

I think what angers me more about this whole thing right now is the reaction of some of my “friends.” Dave Hasz and Ron Luce can do no wrong for so many people and to suggest so sends them into a tizzy. When will people get it – you can have a good time at the HA provided a lot of circumstances fall into play. Teen Mania, Ron and Dave are idols for a lot of people if they can’t step back and allow others to speak out. They marginalize those who have legitimate concerns, they run after the 99 sheep and ignore the one. For all the time they spent their wanting to get so close to God – their reactions are nothing like it – that is when you can say someone has been brainwashed when they defend the enablers of malice instead of supporting the wounded. Those who participated in the documentary are my heroes.

For the record: I don’t go to church anymore, nor do i desire to – I would like to thank the rampant hypocrisy of Teen Mania and its most devout followers for this conclusion.

“Teen Mania, Ron and Dave are idols for a lot of people if they can’t step back and allow others to speak out.”

Umbrellas And Milk, I think you are on to something.

I’ve never attended the Honor Academy, but I feel for you all who did and ended up hurt. I went through something similar. I always felt like I was flexing a muscle in trying to follow God. Of course you can’t indefinitely do that. So I felt good as long as I flexed and felt condemned when life proved that it could not always be done. This made me crabby to my family, and doubting whether I could ever do a good job in my vocation. There was this constant gnawing self doubt. I hit rock bottom nearly killing myself failing at a religious exercise and thought for sure I was hell-bound. Life sucked! I had to get counseling and take some medication to get out of it all. Rediscovering God’s grace is what saved me. I started reading “The Complete Green Letters” by Miles Stanford. The guy just nails all the Bible verses on Grace. People are freed through faith in Jesus from the consequences of sin AND also from the demands of the Law. It was so freeing to learn that I don’t have to do any law to be saved, accepted, loved or any other promise the Bible makes. This took months to learn and unlearn the old destructive ways of trying to earn salvation. Even though I thought I understood grace, there were deeper issues that had to be worked out. Now I’m continually discovering the freedom I have to bear the fruit of the Spirit and engage in good works, without having to measure whether it’s enough to earn my standing in God’s eyes. He proved His love and acceptance for me already by dying and rising again. “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” (Romans 5:8) It’s His life at work in a Christian that allows them to live; really live.

I’m not sure where you all are at. The experiences shared in the video just reminded me of my own panic attacks and emotional mess I was in: the super high demands of trying to live up to something impossible to live up to. We are only saved by grace. Maybe Miles’ book and a good mentor who knows grace can help you in your road to recovery too.

God Bless!

I am really sorry to anyone who is offended by this blog and feels the need to persecute those who were hurt by this ministry though is it possible that the very people that are being “Saved” are those very people that will end up getting hurt later? Have you even considered this?

And what may seem a pack of lies to you through someone else’s expirence can be their greatest truth I understand that you had a great time made lots of life long friends and met your husband or whatever but I didn’t that wasn’t MY expeirence and if i feel the need to help those who are like me not go to a place where i feel led me AWAY from God how DARE you be angry with me!

I almost lost my personal faith and you are going to be upset with me because i want to prevent the same change in others… I know it has nothing to do with this particular blog. But it needs to be said.

Reguards
Johna Michelle Wiese
Intern Class August 07-08

Johna! I remember you!
Thank you for speaking your heart. It’s nice seeing a familiar face here. 🙂 I’m sorry you’ve felt persecution for speaking out about your experience. We should chat sometime.

– Stephanie King, 07-08

Oh, look, the big reveal!! Stephanie – we needed a drumroll for that!

I just want to say how very proud I am of everyone in the recovering community. I’m proud of the women who were willing to expose their hearts in this documentary, knowing full well how much criticism they would face as a result. I’m proud of all the recovering alums who posted information about Mind Over Mania on social media sites and various other places to get the word out. I’m so proud of every single person in this community as we stand tall, despite a new onslaught of criticism. This community is made up of some very brave, very wonderful, very strong people. You might not feel that those words describe you, but every person here has revisited deep wounds, has spoken out for the current HA participants, and has supported others in their recovery. Sometimes it has come at high cost, so thank you for your willingness to pay it. Thank you for your support. Thank you for being a voice for those without a voice. When I think about you all, I really do see beauty from ashes.

I will state upfront that I am not a former alum. I am way too old to have been a part of Teen Mania. However I have complete empathy for what you all have experienced. I almost cried reading what happened to you. I did not watch the video because I can pretty much guess what happened. Abuse from religious leaders is more prevalent that people want to admit. Church leaders want to peg people that buck the system as rebellious and not willing to SUBMIT. We lovingly submit to Christ, not because of brute force. NEVER. YES REBEL AGAINST ABUSE of any kind.

It seems like leaders may start off sincere but end up being corrupted by money and power. The Bible does say that the love of money is the root of all evil. These horrible situations prove that point out. People, even many Christians, will do anything (even use God) as a tool to gather money and power for themselves. It is bad enough when adults have been in madness like this but really horrible when you are dealing with minors who are not mature enough to critically think about what is happening to them.

I will also state this as one old enough to have children that could participate in Teen Mania. Too many Christians do not do research on anything. My husband and I have been frustrated being on Facebook and seeing them post things that are obviously wrong because they heard their pastor or favorite TV preacher say it’s great. They tend to believe the preachers because they are supposed to be of good character and ‘would never direct them in the wrong path’. Research probably would have prevented your parents from sending all of you there.

DO NOT FEEL BAD if it is taking some time to deconstruct your feelings and get back to wholeness in Christ. Emotional damage is incredibly difficult to get past. I have been in situations not as bad as this in a couple of real strict churches. It took me over a decade to get to the point where I trusted in church leadership (not a blanket trust by any means). I was out of church for a time because I was scared of how I would be treated or what madness I would hear from the pulpits. Note: I do not equate going to church with a healthy growing relationship with Jesus Christ. If that were the case the BTK killer should have had the best relationship with the Lord.

The dangerous thing is that even though the Lord is trying to speak to them about their ways, they can get to the point where they are unable to hear Him as He is lovingly trying to rescue him and those in their evil grip. I am so grateful that all of you have become strong enough to admit what happened to you AND more importantly to be able to discern that what you were in was wrong and not from the Lord. I will sincerely pray that all of you will know the Lord and his true nature and will be able to throw out the madness that you experienced.

I would love to leave these verses :1 John 2:20, 27
20But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

These verses have kept me over the years from religious madness in many aspects. The Holy Spirit will be your ultimate teacher and will let you know right and wrong doctrine. He is our saving grace. May all of you find His healing power in your lives in the days to come.

Do you guys think there are a lot of gender issues about “coming out” and speaking up about the abuse? I feel there are, like in some ways it’s easier (possibly) for me as a woman to look at the evidence and realize, “Yes, it’s not right they make me feel this way, that they abused me, etc.” And I think a lot of my critics will blame my stance on my female gender–that I didn’t have what it takes to go through HA undamaged.

For men, I wonder if it isn’t harder to come out about the abuse. So much emphasis is placed on being strong and not wimping out–do you guys (MEN) feel this played or plays a part were you? Have you felt ashamed, like you’re not a manly man?

In my case, HA left me ashamed of the woman I am–like I could never attain they title of a synergistic woman of God. But now when I look clearly (or try to, lol) at what happened to me, I wonder why they even allow women on campus and in the program. Like HELLO! You made us crawl through mud and vomit. You put us through a military-style boot camp. But you’re also telling us to “paint the house” and don’t fart or talk about farts. Yeah… who WOULDNT be confused?

Sigh… I thank God for every one of you here. You are beautiful women and wonderful men. And God wants the best for you and me.

I’m not sure this is a safe place anymore. These people are creepy.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!? Can’t you let these precious people heal with out bringing more misery???

Sorry guys, I was away from the computer for a while but the rude comments have been deleted.

Mica,

My son, Shane, is considering the Team Mania program. He went to an Acquire the Fire event in Seattle and feel in love with the idea of going in January. I watched the MSNBC show last night and was horrified with the stories. I would like to speak with you or one of your counselors before I send my baby there. I want to make sure I understand the situation fully. I just want to make the right decision. Thank you for your time.

Mrs. Sandi DeChaineau
206-322-0013
Ballard, WA

Anonymous – The police have been notified of your threats. So glad my brother in law is a police officer!

Not to discredit in any way the hardships that these girls and others have faced due to their time at TM, I think a lot of what was said in the show was taken out of context. It was pieced together very nicely to paint a horrible picture of TM. Not that I condone or agree with everything that TM is doing I do believe they need to make major changes. I do think this whole situation between all these people and TM would be easily fixed if they would just humble themselves and admit that they are wrong in many ways. I also think we need to have grace for a ministry that is trying to survive and function. I myself struggled a lot after TM with condemnation and feeling like nothing I ever did was good enough, however that pattern started before TM and was just made worse by it. So I do not blame the honor academy for the issues in my life, because in the end I believe if you seek the Lord He can heal you of whatever issues your facing. I feel like for some people it’s easier to blame someone(like teen mania) for all your problems, when really you need to let go of it and get on your face and seek God because in the end that’s what matters. That’s what’s going to change you. And I do understand you genuinely want to see TM changed for the better. Me too, they need to focus on grace. They need to read “God’s Lavish Grace” by Terry Virgo over and over. Anyway, I do hope that by expressing what many of you have held inside brings freedom to you, because that is the beginning of working through the issues and letting things go. In the end, find God. Persevere and push until He speaks to you in your situation. He loves you and wants to heal you.

As with all types of abuse, I do not think it’s even about blaming the abuser, so I really disagree with anon 4:22

It is about understanding that there were things that happened to you, perhaps out of your control or understanding at that time. Acknowledging that, you start to go through the lessons you learned and start to re-learn the truth. I blame TM for their actions and cold treatment to recovering FAMILY MEMBERS (as alumni supposedly are). However TM has repeatedly shown a “blame the victim” mentality and we who are speaking out have generally spent years believing TM and blaming us. Ourselves. 100%

I pray you never go through a true clinical depression and are told to simply push until He speaks to you. The truth is that God uses people to help heal people. He does not use people to abuse them and call it good.

It’s been a couple weeks since I’ve been on here and I’ve missed so much! I watched part of the documentary on my lunch break today and am eager to finish it. So far, I notice nothing negative, angry or bitter about the women sharing their stories – they are simply sharing their stories and bringing truth to light. Great job, ladies!

@ Sandi in Washington,

I live in Portland, am a former alum, and would be happy to talk to you. RA has my phone number and other contact information.

Peace,
Carrie

I went to TM about 10 yrs ago. I stayed at the HA for the entire year. I didn’t enjoy every aspect of it, but I met my boyfriend there and he’s the sweetest man I’ve ever known. No regrets and no permanent damage!! 🙂 My sympathy to those with negative experiences, but God loves you; keep following after Him. Like Mother Theresa said… “It was never between you and them anyway- it’s between you and God.”

It hurt bad to watch the show. It made me remember alot of things I wish I could forget. My heart was pounding all day thinking about it. Its been 13 years since my internship and I’m as angry as ever. I’m glad the show was made and I hope all alumni can recover from all the damage they were subjected to.

it wasn’t mentioned in the program, but i think a big issue with the honor academy/teen mania is that it is ran by men, designed by men, and FOR men. yes, i know, people are going to argue that. but esoal is not about producing loving christians, it is about producing “soldiers.” men run the show at tm land. the entire internship has so many aspects that cater to men and do not consider the female experience. i was definitely NOT surprised it was a group of all women in the documentary. the sexism at tm is ridiculous. they make you think it’s about men “honoring” women, but really it’s about making women feel they must depend on men in order to be protected. if they make women feel dependent, they can control them. i feel women are fed all kinds of crap there that is not at all right or biblical! heath stoner’s “sex talk” was one of the most horrible, degrading, controlling, and sexist things i had ever heard from a christian’s mouth!

I was an intern from 1998-1999, and a ministry intern from 1999-2000. When I left Teen Mania, I went into a deep depression. I withdrew from the college I had applied to, I avoided church at all costs, and deplored (still do, actually) the sort of worship sessions that require emotional self-lathering to reach God. I kept to myself for YEARS. In 2006 I was finally diagnosed with anxiety disorder. I started taking medication, and within a year I was able to change jobs, move, and develop a romantic relationship. After avoiding church for so long, I was finally able to look at Christ again– this time looking long and hard at doctrine and theology. I became Catholic in 2009. I discovered this blog, and the documentary, today. I am amazed that there are so many stories similar to mine! I thought it was just me!!!! I still have dreams that I am back on campus, and they are disconcerting. Just thought I’d share.

Jennifer Lohrman Britton
I put “anonymous” because I don’t have any of the other profiles…… I feel no need for anonymity.

Thank you! My parents watched it and I watched it with my boyfriend. I have shared it with many friends and it is helping so much to put into words the damage that teen mania inflicted upon me. I have been crying all day, but they are more tears of relief that I’m not crazy and releasing the repressed memories… Thank you for bringing this to the light!

Jennifer: Thanks for sharing your story! When you comment you can select “Name/URL, wrote your name, and leave the URL blank. Then you don’t have to comment as anonymous if you don’t want to 🙂

Thank you, RA and crew. It was moving to hear multiple voices agree that what happened was not our fault, that we are guilty only of wanting to be good people and help others and love our perception of God. After a decade, I am finally learning how to like myself and appreciate the happiness that can be experienced in the absence of constant self-doubt and guilt. Much appreciated- I’m going to share with a few friends.

I am so thankful that these ladies were willing to share their heart.
Just recently I met up with 2 of my close friends from Teen Mania… we talked all weekend about how damaging the experience was for us and how we are still working through it…. It has been 4 yrs now. We all felt that we were alone in our pain, and it is so comforting for me to know that they felt the way I did.
It brings even more healing to see this documentary tonight…
Watching this from the outside looking in reminds me of all the things that I wanted to forget and ignore..I am reminded to be honest with my self about how TM deeply affected me in such a negative way.
Thank you ladies! What a blessing it is to soooo many people to know the truth and see TM for what it truly is.
Its scary how they lure you in. I was a caller to “Recruit” interns to the HA…and we really would put on a show…make everything perfect for those visiting, knowing that it wouldn’t be like that once they actually became and intern. Whats sad is I truly believed that this was good for them. ughh
Whats the most disheartening thing is seeing Rons response and smug smile…Its truly quite disturbing.

Again Thank you

WE don’t fight against flesh and blood. This is truly a problem of a spiritual problem. I know people are wounded, I was wounded too but praise God because Jesus has healed me from my self pity. I am a firm believer that my depression was a form of lust not sexual Lust but the Lust of the flesh. All sin comes from the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life. I was having a me, myself and I experience and I was dwelling in self pity. I was looking inward and putting myself on the throne and rejecting Gods love and His sacrifice. I have attempted suicide 5 times since I was dismissed from the H.A. in 2003. I Now realized that No one held a gun to my head to attend the H.A. or ESOAL. I choose to go through it. I did not have problems from my experience at the H.A, TMM, or ESOAL. I have the problems that i experienced because I choose to believe the lie of the enemy and reject Gods truth. I now choose to agree with God and call the lies of the enemy into the light for the lies they are. God has truly saved my life from the grips of Satan and his pathetic heart shattering lies. I now CHOOSE to give God my heart to heal it . I cry out for all of you to receive Gods truth from His word about you and his healing love to touch your heart. And I encourage you to reject the lies of Satan. Bless you!
Dismissed intern of 2003

Ashley Chandler, I do believe that the trth and rejecting lies is what RA is here for. 😀

Is it just me, or does it seems like Luce smirks every time he answers a question. I like the part where Mica said, “the only thing we are guilty of, is wanting to help people.” That’s the saddest part. Take away the 18 million + (and no financial oversight and accountability), the blatant abuse, the cult of personality that is evident in much on Evangelical Christianity and you have kids just wanting to help people. What happens when HA is done sucking the youthful hopes and dreams is people who are now bitter and hurt. How convenient then for HA to say, “Well it’s just the bitter ones talking.”

Ashley, I’m glad to hear about your recovery. However, I will not blame myself for the spiritual, emotional, and physical abuse I experienced at the HA. I accept a certain level of responsibility, but I’ve also come to understand that it was not my fault.

And that is what healing looks like to me.

Amen. We are also talking about people who claim that Christ demands excellence, honor and accountability. It’s time they lived up to their expectations of us.

Furthermore, no matter how healed we are/become, TM is continuing to abuse. And a good number of the abused will continue the cycle.

Forgiveness does not mean we allow more victims to be made. My Jesus wants me to speak up (even when it is painful) and stand up for those who need it. I needed it–I wish someone had done it for me, so I am going to join the effort and be there for the next generations aw well.

I’ve been watching the news coverage about this sexual molestation thing at Penn State. And the predominant thing people are saying is, “How could so many people cover this up for so long? How could they knowingly allow someone to continue to abuse those kids?”

We all recognize that once you know something is abuse, you need to speak up. You cannot remain silent when you know something is wrong. That’s why we are speaking out. Some of this website is recovery for those who have suffered long lasting effects from their time at Teen Mania. But we also call an orange an orange. We have seen some practices that are abusive to the core. We have seen the damage those practices have wreaked in people’s lives. We can’t just shut up and move on when we know IT IS STILL HAPPENING. People say we are bitter and we can’t stop rehashing old hurts. We are not rehashing old hurts, we are telling what we have witnessed and what we know still goes on at the Honor Academy.

+1 Julie

Who out there will declare the Goodness of God in the land of the living? Have we allowed the pain in our wounded hearts to snuff out our desire to share Gods heart with the lost and dying world!? I truly do pray for all of us on this site and that have been wounded that Gods love would penetrate the deepest part of our hearts that He would uncover the deepest lie of the enemy that e have believed about ourselves. that we are unworthy, that we are a mistake, that we are too far gone, that we have nothing to offer, that we will never amount to anything. These are lies straight from the pit of hell! Gods truth is that We are made worthy by His blood, by his love that He delights in us, that God did not make an oops, we are not mistakes but that God was looking forward to our life unfolding before Him just so that He could father us and delight in us and celebrate us with His song and dancing. We are not too far gone for His grace and His mercy fighting for our attention. We are carriers of the Glory of God the hope of nations we have a lot to offer and we do amount to everything before the Galaxy breather the universe creator the God who formed us out of dust and ribs and who knit us together in our mothers womb! Who out there will declare of the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living?

Ashley, I appreciate your sentiments but could you please try to tone down the Christianese? It is triggering to a lot of other people. Thanks.

My “christianease is triggering other Christians? I feel that this is an ugly way to receive healing. By the oppressive tone in all these blogs. This comment will probably be deleted. But How does God bring His healing? Again I invite Gods spirit to come into this blog. I mean if I had not chosen to agree with Gods truth about me and not received His healing I would have agreed and “like” every comment on this blog. Is this truly Gods method of healing hearts or is it our human way of opening up our wounds and connecting with others to form a support group is this site truly devoted towards the healing of our wounded hearts? I have not seen to many people comment about receiving Gods healing? Again this comment will probably be deleted… I ask God that you would bring your spirit into this conversation. I am sorry if the light shining in my heart offends you my brothers and sisters in Christ. When I was dismissed in march of 200r It crushed me! I was an 2003 August intern. When I was dismissed I had to give back my Honor ring which my mom made fro me out of white gold that said in Hebrew I am my beloved and my beloved is mine. I also had to give back my honor ring that said always honorable in Latin. I also was cut out of my cores flag with scissors. My name was removed from the whole system almost like I had never been there. I was soo crushed I gave the one thing most precious to me my born again virginity to a guy that was an intern 2002-2003. He drove from Colorado to Texas to pick me up. I had never even met him in person. He said he would sell his car and we would go to Africa. My born again virginity was so precious to me because I wanted to give it to my husband as a gift now I know that forgiven afterwards but It was so precious to me! I gave it away to some guy that I did not even know for 3 months! And I had my now husband but then boyfriend who I had to put on standby for a year because of the HA rules. But I thank God because I did marry Him. After I was dismissed I felt like an utter failure! I was in self destruct mode. I attempted suicide 5 times since I left the H.A. I am diagnosed Seriously Mentally Ill and I am on Social Security Disability. My life was an utter mess! I have not been hospitalized for almost a year which is a miracle and I want to live because God IS healing me. I now see that all my so called illness is all based out of the lies that I choose to believe. But God is healing me!

Ashley, I’m glad you are here and are sharing your story. By “Christianese” I simply meant the sort of insider Christian language that we used while in the HA and even in the church. Things like “Who out there will declare the Goodness of God in the land of the living?” This is a thread specifically to share your story and validate the stories of others – not a place for judgment, even if its indirect.

Please don’t take offense to this, we definitely want to hear what you have to say, but please put it in your own words and that would be super helpful to those who have a hard time listening to Christian cliche/Christianese/whatever you want to call it. Hope that makes sense.

You might also want to remember that not everyone here is Christian but we are all here to support and respect each other nonetheless.

Ashley,
It’s important to remember there is not just one way to heal. People heal in different ways. Maybe you don’t understand the way someone else is healing. Maybe not everyone here understands how you received healing. That’s okay, it doesn’t look the same for every person. But please be aware of that fact, and try not to judge whether someone else’s path to healing is effective based on how it compares to your own.

Julie,
How is the blog helping you heal? How about everyone that reads this respond on stories of how they are healing and receiving Gods healing in their life post TMM? That would be a good shift in the atmosphere to hear something positive for a change. Like I thought recoveringalumni.com was truly about our recovery not our recounting of all the death negative lies from the enemy we received. Remember this verse. ” The enemy comes to steal Kill and destroy. But I have come (Jesus says) that you may have life and have it to the full” I am inviting more of you to speak on the life that Jesus is giving you on this road to recovery. Bless you.

Well, I want to reiterate one of my previous comments that this blog is not only about our personal healing, but about telling our stories to bring light to what happened and give others the opportunity to realize they are not alone in what they have experienced. So I don’t believe 100% of what is on here is specifically geared to facilitating healing. I also don’t think it’s wrong to recount “negative lies” if you are calling them what they are. It does bring light to darkness and bring healing when someone looks at a core belief they absorbed during the internship and realizes it is a negative lie, not God’s truth!

I have found a lot of healing in this blog. I don’t consider myself as someone who had a terrible experience at the HA, but God has certainly delivered me from unrealistic expectations about what my Christian walk should look like through the people in this community. I knew in my head that God gives us grace, but it wasn’t until people in this community offered grace to me so freely that I really understood what it means that grace is a free gift. I’ve received so much freedom from the revelation that I don’t have to be perfect every minute of every day, that God’s grace is big enough to catch me when I fall. I’m very thankful to this community for showing that to me.

@Ashley Chandler
I am only beginning to heal, but I touched a bit on this in my personal blog post today (reacting to the documentary.)

http://askanalumnus.xanga.com/756489661/msnbcs-mind-over-mania-documentary-my-reaction/

For me, using this RA site and blogging on my own, I am gaining my freedom back. I will be explaining more of this personally as I go down the road to recovery but the immediate impact has been that I feel free to let go of my self-hatred. I no longer fear that I am going insane (seriously not figuratively.) I can actually feel a spark of life back in me again and actually just me posting online and talking to people has been a huge step for me.

I went to the HA when I had just turned 18 a week earlier.I’m now 29 and am really mourning the fact that I have yet to enjoy my twenties. Yeah, this entire decade for me has been full of pain, and withdrawal. I’ve held onto faith but believed that I could never measure up. I didn’t keep any friends. I dreaded calling people on the phone. I starved myself and then started to eat compulsively. I’d stay at home if I didn’t have to go to work. I’d avoid anyone and everyone.

Like I said, I’m new in my recovery but through the site and documentary, Duncans–once I realized this was wrong, this was ABUSE… something shifted in me. It’s like I was in the dark for 10 years and suddenly felt the light-witch on the wall. I flipped it and my mindset changed.

So in a nutshell, I have found freedom and my VOICE.

I’m watching it for the first time… how in the heck does the first intern they interviewed have a nose ring?? I had to take mine out for the year >:(

“When I was dismissed I had to give back my Honor ring which my mom made for me out of white gold that said in Hebrew I am my beloved and my beloved is mine. I also had to give back my honor ring that said always honorable in Latin. I also was cut out of my cores flag with scissors. My name was removed from the whole system almost like I had never been there.”

This makes me so angry! This is a complete distortion of God’s character. He doesn’t cut out our name, remove us from his system, and act like we don’t exist.

@Ashley Chandler – I am so sorry that TM hurt you in this way. What they did was wrong and completely misrepresents who God is.

I’m not an Alumi, but I came out of a cult. I just would like to ask a thought provoking question. If a parent treated their children like this at home every day, would CPS take the children?