Teen Mania just sent out an email announcing the departure of David and Jon Hasz. Here is the text of that email:
For 25 years, Teen Mania Ministries has been reaching teenagers with the life-changing message of Jesus Christ. Still committed to this mission, we enter into our next chapter ready to meet this generation where they are in new and innovative ways. As we do so, we will be saying goodbye to two of our most-beloved leaders, David Hasz and Jon Hasz, who have served the ministry selflessly and with full dedication for decades.
David, who currently serves as Executive Vice President of Teen Mania and Executive Director of the Honor Academy, will be following God’s call on his life into a new direction, having spent 17 years working with the ministry reaching this generation with the gospel. He will continue on with Teen Mania through August 11, when the current class of Honor Academy interns will graduate. David joined the staff at Teen Mania in 1996; previously he traveled extensively with Ron and Katie Luce, sharing their vision for overseas missions and evangelism. David has served in numerous capacities within Teen Mania throughout his time with the ministry.
David said: “What an amazing 17 years it has been to serve alongside all of you with Teen Mania Ministries. I am thankful for the great memories, incredible friendships, and most of all for the privilege of getting to play a small part in helping shape and influence the lives of this young generation—truly it’s been an honor. Though these have been such wonderful years, Beth and I now feel our time at Teen Mania has come to a close. We are praying about our next steps and are seeking God about where He would have us go. To all of you who have blessed us with trust, friendship, support and prayers, I say a heartfelt thank you. May God continue to bless you as we all seek to honor Him with our lives and move forward as He leads.”
Jon, who serves as Teen Mania’s Chief Financial Officer, will be departing the ministry on June 1. Jon has been a vital member of the Teen Mania staff for 12 years, and has a heart for reaching the lost for Christ. Jon came to Teen Mania in 2000 after working for eight years in Christian education and administration as a math teacher, athletic director and varsity basketball coach. He has served in a variety of roles within Teen Mania: the Honor Academy from 2000 to 2003, as Executive Director of Global Expeditions from 2003 to 2006, and as Executive Director of Acquire the Fire from 2006 to 2008, before becoming the ministry’s CFO.
Jon said: “It has been a distinct honor for me to have rubbed shoulders with the many staff and interns at Teen Mania over the last 12 years. I look forward to what God calls me to in the next chapter of my service to Him and will continue to pray for the influence of Teen Mania to grow as they follow His direction.”
Ron Luce, Teen Mania’s founder and president, said the departure of David and Jon will be felt throughout the ministry and praised the impact the men have had on the lives Teen Mania reaches: “Jon and David have literally seen millions of people impacted because of their sweat, their love, and their time they’ve poured into this ministry. The world is literally a different place because of their sacrifice over the years.”
Dan McLeod will be stepping into the role of CFO after June 1, and will be working alongside Jon over the next month to ensure a smooth transition. Dan has worked in Teen Mania’s Finance Department for a more than a year, and prior to that served as the CEO, CFO, and Finance Director for numerous corporations and non-profit entities of various sizes for more than three decades.
The Teen Mania family is sad to see the departure of Jon and David, and will be praying for them in eager anticipation of the next step for their lives. We wish them well and thank them for their years of service.
Teen Mania’s vision for bringing the life-transforming message of the gospel to teens and to the world will help pave the new direction for the ministry. We recognize that with all change comes new opportunity. A constant is our being fueled by Jesus Christ, and our love for this generation is strong and powerful. We are blessed and excited for all that the Lord will do in our next quarter century.
49 comments:
Anonymoussays:May 1, 2012 at 5:42 PMReply
wow crazy. TM will really miss them. Sure TM had its faults but they really gave so much to TM. Wont feel the same anymore.
Charlie Brownsays:May 1, 2012 at 6:19 PMReply
Interesting that they’re both leaving without knowing what they’re doing next. I distinctly remember Dave teaching about “if you don’t know what God is calling you too, get next to someone who does know their calling”. Makes me wonder why he would leave the ministry he believes in without knowing where God was calling him next.
The fact that both of the Hasz’s are doing so makes me wonder if this is politically motivated. The Hasz’s have received the most press coverage over the last couple years.
Unfortunately it wouldn’t surprise me if Luce were jettisoning them in an attempt to wrap up the last 2 years of controversy with a nice pretty bow.
Hopefully this will mean changes for TM. We’ll see if they “promote from within” and maintain the same inbred culture, or if they seek someone from outside the ministry that will hopefully bring a breath of fresh air. I’m sure they would find someone like minded to Dave, but it least it opens a door.
Anonymoussays:May 1, 2012 at 6:42 PMReply
and way to bring it right back around to the opinionated hate train Charlie Brown…was wonderin when that would happen 🙂
Charlie Brownsays:May 1, 2012 at 7:04 PMReply
@anonymouse-6:42
I’m not sure I follow. What is hateful about me wondering what the motivations are? I’ve made no allegations about either of the Hasz’s, and am only questioning an act on Luce’s part that is more than common in scenarios of aleged abuse and corruption whether it be in a commercial operation or a religious organization.
You have to admit that both of the Hasz’s, in quick succession, with no explanation has to raise some inquiries and speculation.
Anonymoussays:May 1, 2012 at 7:16 PMReply
Teen Mania will not be the same without them. I’m so glad, however, that i had my times of sitting under Dave’s teaching. Sad to see them leave.
Ericsays:May 1, 2012 at 9:13 PMReply
So anything that remotely hints that TM leadership might not have been 100% perfect in every respect is “the opinionated hate train.” I was wondering when that would happen. 😉
JWsays:May 1, 2012 at 11:03 PMReply
Charlie Brown, what makes you think they don’t know what they are going to do next? Just because they didn’t give you a full layout of their plans doesn’t mean they don’t have them or that God hasn’t called them to something different.
Danial Jamessays:May 1, 2012 at 11:48 PMReplyThis comment has been removed by the author.
Shannysays:May 2, 2012 at 1:01 AMReply
I am genuinely shocked that anyone, especially on this site, would be saddened by Dave’s departure.
There’s no hate in the celebration of seeing this man step down. This is an answer to prayer from many people who have been hurt or know someone who has been hurt directly by him! I’ve prayed since graduation 10 years ago that this man would make his heart right with all those kids and all that responsibility, or that he would be removed from this position.
He wasn’t a bad person, but he had an agenda, and he didn’t take well to anyone questioning that. I wish him good things in life, but I am very glad he is leaving. Hopefully the next person won’t feel they must fill Dave’s shoes, but bring their own.
I graduated and I also visited with Dave many times trying to address certain false doctrines and political agendas he promoted as “Christian”. He was worshipped by the same kids that visit this site now seeking help. I really wonder why anyone would be saddened by his departure, and why anyone would be upset that another RA would rejoice over this. He didn’t get fired, he didn’t die, he just is moving on. That’s a win win for his family and for ours.
Katydidsays:May 2, 2012 at 6:38 AMReply
@Shanny…very.well.said.
Ericsays:May 2, 2012 at 7:54 AMReply
> “Teen Mania will not be the same without them.”
From your lips to God’s ears!
Ericsays:May 2, 2012 at 7:59 AMReply
@Shanny– We’ve got trolls in the room again. The exterminator should be along in a bit.
jami c.says:May 2, 2012 at 9:55 AMReply
I’m just sad that my husband is still sleeping… because I need someone to be excited with.
Anonymoussays:May 2, 2012 at 1:55 PMReply
go ahead, its worth it to celebrate this with him. he’ll understand.
Anonymoussays:May 2, 2012 at 4:37 PMReply
I am saddened at their departure as well…
Snackersonsays:May 2, 2012 at 7:00 PMReply
My Speculation,
I’m not surprised by this in the least. The last time I was there I could feel the tension between the upper levels of the staff (as I had a front row seat due to my position.)
I wonder if this is how it played out:
Board or Ron: Jon, the axe has to fall on someone due to our financial deficit & I choose you, since your the CFO.
Dave: If he goes, I go…
Or maybe this:
Ron: I want to do THIS & THIS & THIS & THIS next year, what do you guys think?
Jon: I don’t think it’s in the budget, Ron. You’re dreaming a little to big for our bank.
Ron: Are you telling me ‘NO’? ??? ??? You’re fired.
Dave: If he goes, I go. You already fired my little brother, you can’t take my twin too!
Or this?
Board: Jon, I don’t how you got this job as CFO, since your only qualification is that you were a math teacher before this… but, we’re not happy with the financial situation.
Jon: I’m not happy that we have to try and fulfill all of Ron’s dreams when we don’t have the money to do so!
Ron: What did you just say? … ??? … Jon, You’re fired.
Dave: Bro, I got your back on this one, ‘Hey, you put him in this position, who’s fault was that? If he goes, I go!’
I speculate these scenarios off of first hand interactions with Ron in the past year or so, AND a quote from Kemtal (said to ME, as a reason for wanting to bring me on his team as a staff associate, and not paid-staff) “It’s not in the budget. I budgeted twice as much as what was approved, but that happens when you’re a dreamer, dream big!”
Also, I tend to read into things, such as: “We are praying about our next steps and are seeking God about where He would have us go.” This tells me that Dave’s departure wasn’t quite planned out.
With Dave gone, I AM saddened. (@Shanny) And I’m saddened b/c I truthfully believe that when I last interacted with him (summer 2011) he was a changed man. Humble, Seeking God as vigorously as he could, merciful, apologetic about those who he’s hurt (me being one of them), and altogether a good man. Ron, on the other hand, is now left unchecked. Heath ‘spray-water-in-interns-faces-during-esoal-and-claim-to-have-been-washing-the-sand-out-of-their-eyes’ Stoner will probably have free reign over the HA and his hazing can continue.
We’re watching the fall now. For those of you who wanted this to come, here it is. I give them 3 years, maybe 5. Ron is a dreamer, and his dreams have become bigger more important than his God (again, my opinion). Kemtal is a floor washer, not a businessman, and ATF will continue to lose money b/c of it (my opinion). And Heath Stoner has been a life-long intern, never set straight by leaving the bubble.
Recovering Alumnisays:May 2, 2012 at 7:12 PMReply
Snackerson – I love your name.
Very interesting and probable scenarios!
Snackersonsays:May 2, 2012 at 7:15 PMReply
@Charlie brown,
More Speculation: Heath is next in line to take Dave’s place. It’s going to be a ‘promote from within and continue with wonderful inbred-nes’ situation.
Kemtal, who’s a wonderful mirror of his leadership above him (aka, following-the-leader, or ‘being-a-puppet’) decided this past year to make all staff positions within ATF (with a few exceptions) unpaid staff-associate jobs. This is a wonderful way to keep the payroll small, since GI’s are typically happy to ‘move-up’ and no longer have to pay.
I believe that this idea was given to him by Ron so they can keep cost down and continue to maintain the safety of not hiring ‘outsiders’. b/c ‘outsiders’ don’t put up with a lot of the politics, low-pay, and being forced to ride the swat/support bus to each event as a staff member.
Anonymoussays:May 2, 2012 at 8:01 PMReply
I know for a fact that Jon and Dave were not fired. Several board members quit and so did the Hasz brothers. If you’ve ever been in leadership at TM, you know this eventually happens to all upper level leadership and you know the reason is Ron Luce. They have hung on there longer than any others did. I wish them both the best.
Shannon Kishsays:May 2, 2012 at 9:42 PMReply
Anon, care to give your sources?
Recovering Alumnisays:May 2, 2012 at 9:43 PMReply
Shannon – I think he is trying to ask Eric whether or not intentions matter when someone is abused. Its not a literal story.
Anonymoussays:May 2, 2012 at 10:56 PMReply
I also know for a fact they were not fired, Jon has been planning to leave since January and actually sold his house in March. With Dave it was completely a voluntary move however I do not know the exact reasons. I know that he was fasting and praying for quite some time regarding making the decision. If he was fired, why would they keep him around until late August?, thats just not in TM’s character. When Ron decides to let go of someone, he cuts ties completely right away.
Anonymoussays:May 2, 2012 at 10:56 PMReply
Also, Heath Stoner has been in charge of the HA for quite some time now with the help of Randy Olsson so it won’t be much of a change as far as that goes
Shannon Kishsays:May 3, 2012 at 12:35 AMReply
RA, my comment was in regards to knowing for a fact that the Hasz brothers weren’t fired. Sorry for he confusion.
Recovering Alumnisays:May 3, 2012 at 12:36 AMReply
Shannon – Ah, that makes more sense. Yes, an anonymous comment on the internet assuring us that Dave wasn’t fired isn’t exactly what I’d call solid evidence.
Stephaniesays:May 3, 2012 at 1:02 AMReply
This was the feeling I got from the letter. That something had happened and Dave and Jon could no longer support the ministry. I also honestly think Dave is changing… Maybe not as fast a we wanted, but I believe he is changing for the better.
I have always felt Ron was at the heart of the twist at the center of TM… because I think he is not psycologically stable. But that’s just my opinion.
I believe ever one is capable of change and all can be redeemed and reconsiled. I see this ans an opportunity for that.
Snackersonsays:May 3, 2012 at 10:39 AMReply
@Stephanie,
Yes, yes, and YES! I believe Dave left voluntarily, I didn’t know about ‘anonymous’ comment on Jon selling his house, but yes. It would make sense to me that Jon couldn’t take anymore of it, Dave couldn’t take anymore of it. Ron has let his dream become his reality, making him psychologically unstable. He lives in a fantasy world now where telling kids his message is bigger than telling them God’s message.
Anonymoussays:May 3, 2012 at 2:56 PMReply
I believe DHs home has been on the market since at least March of this year- so it does not appear to be completely sudden.
Anonymoussays:May 3, 2012 at 9:40 PMReply
Snackerson
Or maybe this:
Oh no, Eric says we’re going to go to federal prison for our heinous tax crimes. Let’s get out of here!
JWsays:May 3, 2012 at 9:44 PMReply
Another situation:
We have been here going on two decades and have poured our sweat, blood and tears into mentoring young people the best we know how. Our own families are suffering from a lack of our time. Our children will soon be off to college. We better take a brake from this and focus on the families God has given us while we still can.
wanderersays:May 3, 2012 at 10:19 PMReply
JW…. nice thought but does anyone ever leave TM after being heavily involved in that healthy of a manner?
JWsays:May 3, 2012 at 10:43 PMReply
I’m not following the question, Wanderer? I’m not sure what you’re implying with “healthy”, but I think the answer to your question is yes. I think people can get too involved with work and/or ministry, and the mature know when they need to step aside and focus on their families, who (family) I believe should be our first ministry. In fact, I’ve known many people who have left TM, voluntarily, because they are either burned out or are heeding God’s voice to move in a different or new direction. I hope this answer follows along with what you were asking.
Courtney Ksays:May 4, 2012 at 8:31 PMReply
RA – Now that the evil Hasz has abdicated his throne, what’s your move? Is this site done? Or will you continue to fight until the HA & Teen Mania goes completely under.
1st Time Mommysays:May 4, 2012 at 9:54 PMReply
Stephanie, I agree with your thoughts 100%. I feel that way about Ron as well. And I do believe Dave is changing. The tone of his responses to my questions on the Facebook page Jordan was moderating was that of humility and sincere apology. In the past it seemed like he didn’t take responsibility for issues I brought to him, but he seemed interested in answering my questions, apologizing for the past that could not be changed, and moving forward.
I do not think TM will change for the better because I think Ron is out of touch with reality and whoever they hire will toe the party line. This makes me completely sad. But I am glad for Dave getting to move forward and getting his family to a healthier place. Good for them.
1st Time Mommysays:May 4, 2012 at 10:04 PMReply
Snackerson….love the speculation and insight. I had really always suspected Ron was that way….thank you for sharing your insight. Like I said before, I agree that Dave is changing and has changed. I know that some people do not agree with that, and that’s okay. I am basing my opinion on the interaction I personally had with Dave. I felt respected and validated in a way that I hadn’t felt previously from him.
I think Teen Mania’s time is limited….so sad because when I was an intern 98-99 HA said they were experiencing their largest growth yet…I expected the ministry to keep growing and prospering….when it stayed the same size for several years it should make even the most loyal alumni wonder the reason why. I believe it will shrink and eventually shut down. Maybe not ATF, but HA possibly.
Anonymoussays:May 4, 2012 at 11:46 PMReply
Personally I dont think this site was created to war with teen mania… It is a way for those of us who were hurt by the ministry to heal.
serenity
jami c.says:May 5, 2012 at 5:58 PMReply
“RA – Now that the evil Hasz has abdicated his throne, what’s your move? Is this site done? Or will you continue to fight until the HA & Teen Mania goes completely under.”
Now that the “evil Hasz” has abdicated his throne… will interns stop being abused and mistreated?
Doubt it.
But at least your comment shows your absolute ignorance of the purpose of this site.
Doug Duncansays:May 5, 2012 at 8:24 PMReply
Has anyone considered the possibilty that Jon & Dave are simply being thrown under the bus by Ron? That they are being used as scapegoats for the negative publicity that the HA has received?
Jessicasays:May 5, 2012 at 9:05 PMReply
Snackerson,
I think your speculation about Ron getting angry at his CFO for not being able to double their budget to accommodate his “dreams” and “visions” is probably only too accurate 🙁 and something that is unfortunately common these days. I’ve seen lots of churches go ahead with something that will create debt for them because they have faith that God will provide.
I’m not here to judge that, at all. I’ve seen it work before. But what you can’t do is get mad at your financial people when you plan to have more expenses than income and then – shocker! – you go in the red.
Shannon Kishsays:May 5, 2012 at 9:06 PMReply
Doug, I have considered that and find it to be the most likely scenerio
Carey Gonzalez 02′says:May 8, 2012 at 10:24 AMReply
RA – You seem to be getting tired. I’ve been involved in this community for almost 2 full years. Teen Mania made an announcement that Dave & Jon have left the ministry and all we get from you is a copy and paste? There are hundreds of alumni who are hurting. TM still has Stoner, Luce, and countless others abusing (physically, sexually, emotionally, mentally, and financially) the current interns. No posts. Please post more updates. Help keep this community alive. Don’t get soft on us.
Recovering Alumnisays:May 8, 2012 at 10:50 AMReply
Hi Carey,
I’m not sure what to make of your post…I don’t think I’ve heard your name before and your comment seems accusatory. Maybe thats not how you meant it, though…
If you want daily discussion of Teen Mania, please visit the Recovering Alumni facebook page. Its quite active.
Carey Gonzalez 02′says:May 8, 2012 at 11:00 AMReply
RA – I just meant it as encouragement. I’ll head of to FB. Thanx.
Recovering Alumnisays:May 8, 2012 at 12:38 PMReply
Hi Carey – Thanks for the clarification. Please join us on fb. 🙂
Anonymoussays:May 9, 2012 at 9:01 PMReply
This seems like such a great thing for all of us Recovering Alumni but I am just confused. It seems to me that Dave Hasz and Jon Hasz are the front men that are taking the fall. Ron Luce has yet to make any form of apology. His actions on the documentary were very odd and I think that this whole problems goes back to the LUCE himself. I think DH, JH, and many of us fell under Ron Luce’s brainwashing techniques and didn’t recognize it until too late. I hope the best for the Hasz Bros. Hopefully, they will detox from the “bubble” themselves. I’m not taking up for them or anything, just sayin… Ron Luce hasn’t made any attempts that I know of to make things better, Has he? He sure did let DH take the load for the Honor Academy though.
Anonymoussays:May 12, 2012 at 7:37 AMReply
Let us keep Ron Luce and his family in our prayers right now. One of his daughters was in a plane crash yesterday somewhere in Kansas. All others on the plane have passed away. Although we may each have grievances with TM, it does not change the fact that Ron is still our brother in the Lord. One of the passengers who passed away was a staff member at TM. Please pray for the families that are devestated by this terrible event.
shannon-ashleysays:May 14, 2012 at 12:37 PMReply
Wow, I am late to reading this info, so it’s a shock. Out of all the brainwashing/reformed thinking I went through at TM, it’s Dave’s voice that replays the loudest in my head. I went on an Amsterdam trip with John and Kelly as the leaders…. I don’t know what it means, but it’s definitely interesting to see them leave after everything that has happened.
Anonymoussays:May 31, 2012 at 3:28 PMReply
If Hasz told tons of interns “if you don’t feel God calling you out of HA then rent my properties,” perhaps HE should move into a dorm, start sweeping, eating catfood and other nonsense until God reveals his next steps! Wouldn’t that be grand?
Anonymoussays:January 18, 2013 at 6:29 AMReply
Wow, just found out… Just gave a sigh of relief, feels so good. That news is healing…
wow crazy. TM will really miss them. Sure TM had its faults but they really gave so much to TM. Wont feel the same anymore.
Interesting that they’re both leaving without knowing what they’re doing next. I distinctly remember Dave teaching about “if you don’t know what God is calling you too, get next to someone who does know their calling”. Makes me wonder why he would leave the ministry he believes in without knowing where God was calling him next.
The fact that both of the Hasz’s are doing so makes me wonder if this is politically motivated. The Hasz’s have received the most press coverage over the last couple years.
Unfortunately it wouldn’t surprise me if Luce were jettisoning them in an attempt to wrap up the last 2 years of controversy with a nice pretty bow.
Hopefully this will mean changes for TM. We’ll see if they “promote from within” and maintain the same inbred culture, or if they seek someone from outside the ministry that will hopefully bring a breath of fresh air. I’m sure they would find someone like minded to Dave, but it least it opens a door.
and way to bring it right back around to the opinionated hate train Charlie Brown…was wonderin when that would happen 🙂
@anonymouse-6:42
I’m not sure I follow. What is hateful about me wondering what the motivations are? I’ve made no allegations about either of the Hasz’s, and am only questioning an act on Luce’s part that is more than common in scenarios of aleged abuse and corruption whether it be in a commercial operation or a religious organization.
You have to admit that both of the Hasz’s, in quick succession, with no explanation has to raise some inquiries and speculation.
Teen Mania will not be the same without them. I’m so glad, however, that i had my times of sitting under Dave’s teaching. Sad to see them leave.
So anything that remotely hints that TM leadership might not have been 100% perfect in every respect is “the opinionated hate train.” I was wondering when that would happen. 😉
Charlie Brown, what makes you think they don’t know what they are going to do next? Just because they didn’t give you a full layout of their plans doesn’t mean they don’t have them or that God hasn’t called them to something different.
This comment has been removed by the author.
I am genuinely shocked that anyone, especially on this site, would be saddened by Dave’s departure.
There’s no hate in the celebration of seeing this man step down. This is an answer to prayer from many people who have been hurt or know someone who has been hurt directly by him! I’ve prayed since graduation 10 years ago that this man would make his heart right with all those kids and all that responsibility, or that he would be removed from this position.
He wasn’t a bad person, but he had an agenda, and he didn’t take well to anyone questioning that. I wish him good things in life, but I am very glad he is leaving. Hopefully the next person won’t feel they must fill Dave’s shoes, but bring their own.
I graduated and I also visited with Dave many times trying to address certain false doctrines and political agendas he promoted as “Christian”. He was worshipped by the same kids that visit this site now seeking help. I really wonder why anyone would be saddened by his departure, and why anyone would be upset that another RA would rejoice over this. He didn’t get fired, he didn’t die, he just is moving on. That’s a win win for his family and for ours.
@Shanny…very.well.said.
> “Teen Mania will not be the same without them.”
From your lips to God’s ears!
@Shanny– We’ve got trolls in the room again. The exterminator should be along in a bit.
I’m just sad that my husband is still sleeping… because I need someone to be excited with.
go ahead, its worth it to celebrate this with him. he’ll understand.
I am saddened at their departure as well…
My Speculation,
I’m not surprised by this in the least. The last time I was there I could feel the tension between the upper levels of the staff (as I had a front row seat due to my position.)
I wonder if this is how it played out:
Board or Ron: Jon, the axe has to fall on someone due to our financial deficit & I choose you, since your the CFO.
Dave: If he goes, I go…
Or maybe this:
Ron: I want to do THIS & THIS & THIS & THIS next year, what do you guys think?
Jon: I don’t think it’s in the budget, Ron. You’re dreaming a little to big for our bank.
Ron: Are you telling me ‘NO’? ??? ??? You’re fired.
Dave: If he goes, I go. You already fired my little brother, you can’t take my twin too!
Or this?
Board: Jon, I don’t how you got this job as CFO, since your only qualification is that you were a math teacher before this… but, we’re not happy with the financial situation.
Jon: I’m not happy that we have to try and fulfill all of Ron’s dreams when we don’t have the money to do so!
Ron: What did you just say? … ??? … Jon, You’re fired.
Dave: Bro, I got your back on this one, ‘Hey, you put him in this position, who’s fault was that? If he goes, I go!’
I speculate these scenarios off of first hand interactions with Ron in the past year or so, AND a quote from Kemtal (said to ME, as a reason for wanting to bring me on his team as a staff associate, and not paid-staff) “It’s not in the budget. I budgeted twice as much as what was approved, but that happens when you’re a dreamer, dream big!”
Also, I tend to read into things, such as: “We are praying about our next steps and are seeking God about where He would have us go.” This tells me that Dave’s departure wasn’t quite planned out.
With Dave gone, I AM saddened. (@Shanny) And I’m saddened b/c I truthfully believe that when I last interacted with him (summer 2011) he was a changed man. Humble, Seeking God as vigorously as he could, merciful, apologetic about those who he’s hurt (me being one of them), and altogether a good man. Ron, on the other hand, is now left unchecked. Heath ‘spray-water-in-interns-faces-during-esoal-and-claim-to-have-been-washing-the-sand-out-of-their-eyes’ Stoner will probably have free reign over the HA and his hazing can continue.
We’re watching the fall now. For those of you who wanted this to come, here it is. I give them 3 years, maybe 5. Ron is a dreamer, and his dreams have become bigger more important than his God (again, my opinion). Kemtal is a floor washer, not a businessman, and ATF will continue to lose money b/c of it (my opinion). And Heath Stoner has been a life-long intern, never set straight by leaving the bubble.
Snackerson – I love your name.
Very interesting and probable scenarios!
@Charlie brown,
More Speculation: Heath is next in line to take Dave’s place. It’s going to be a ‘promote from within and continue with wonderful inbred-nes’ situation.
Kemtal, who’s a wonderful mirror of his leadership above him (aka, following-the-leader, or ‘being-a-puppet’) decided this past year to make all staff positions within ATF (with a few exceptions) unpaid staff-associate jobs. This is a wonderful way to keep the payroll small, since GI’s are typically happy to ‘move-up’ and no longer have to pay.
I believe that this idea was given to him by Ron so they can keep cost down and continue to maintain the safety of not hiring ‘outsiders’. b/c ‘outsiders’ don’t put up with a lot of the politics, low-pay, and being forced to ride the swat/support bus to each event as a staff member.
I know for a fact that Jon and Dave were not fired. Several board members quit and so did the Hasz brothers. If you’ve ever been in leadership at TM, you know this eventually happens to all upper level leadership and you know the reason is Ron Luce. They have hung on there longer than any others did. I wish them both the best.
Anon, care to give your sources?
Shannon – I think he is trying to ask Eric whether or not intentions matter when someone is abused. Its not a literal story.
I also know for a fact they were not fired, Jon has been planning to leave since January and actually sold his house in March. With Dave it was completely a voluntary move however I do not know the exact reasons. I know that he was fasting and praying for quite some time regarding making the decision. If he was fired, why would they keep him around until late August?, thats just not in TM’s character. When Ron decides to let go of someone, he cuts ties completely right away.
Also, Heath Stoner has been in charge of the HA for quite some time now with the help of Randy Olsson so it won’t be much of a change as far as that goes
RA, my comment was in regards to knowing for a fact that the Hasz brothers weren’t fired. Sorry for he confusion.
Shannon – Ah, that makes more sense. Yes, an anonymous comment on the internet assuring us that Dave wasn’t fired isn’t exactly what I’d call solid evidence.
This was the feeling I got from the letter. That something had happened and Dave and Jon could no longer support the ministry. I also honestly think Dave is changing… Maybe not as fast a we wanted, but I believe he is changing for the better.
I have always felt Ron was at the heart of the twist at the center of TM… because I think he is not psycologically stable. But that’s just my opinion.
I believe ever one is capable of change and all can be redeemed and reconsiled. I see this ans an opportunity for that.
@Stephanie,
Yes, yes, and YES! I believe Dave left voluntarily, I didn’t know about ‘anonymous’ comment on Jon selling his house, but yes. It would make sense to me that Jon couldn’t take anymore of it, Dave couldn’t take anymore of it. Ron has let his dream become his reality, making him psychologically unstable. He lives in a fantasy world now where telling kids his message is bigger than telling them God’s message.
I believe DHs home has been on the market since at least March of this year- so it does not appear to be completely sudden.
Snackerson
Or maybe this:
Oh no, Eric says we’re going to go to federal prison for our heinous tax crimes. Let’s get out of here!
Another situation:
We have been here going on two decades and have poured our sweat, blood and tears into mentoring young people the best we know how. Our own families are suffering from a lack of our time. Our children will soon be off to college. We better take a brake from this and focus on the families God has given us while we still can.
JW…. nice thought but does anyone ever leave TM after being heavily involved in that healthy of a manner?
I’m not following the question, Wanderer? I’m not sure what you’re implying with “healthy”, but I think the answer to your question is yes. I think people can get too involved with work and/or ministry, and the mature know when they need to step aside and focus on their families, who (family) I believe should be our first ministry. In fact, I’ve known many people who have left TM, voluntarily, because they are either burned out or are heeding God’s voice to move in a different or new direction. I hope this answer follows along with what you were asking.
RA – Now that the evil Hasz has abdicated his throne, what’s your move? Is this site done? Or will you continue to fight until the HA & Teen Mania goes completely under.
Stephanie, I agree with your thoughts 100%. I feel that way about Ron as well. And I do believe Dave is changing. The tone of his responses to my questions on the Facebook page Jordan was moderating was that of humility and sincere apology. In the past it seemed like he didn’t take responsibility for issues I brought to him, but he seemed interested in answering my questions, apologizing for the past that could not be changed, and moving forward.
I do not think TM will change for the better because I think Ron is out of touch with reality and whoever they hire will toe the party line. This makes me completely sad. But I am glad for Dave getting to move forward and getting his family to a healthier place. Good for them.
Snackerson….love the speculation and insight. I had really always suspected Ron was that way….thank you for sharing your insight. Like I said before, I agree that Dave is changing and has changed. I know that some people do not agree with that, and that’s okay. I am basing my opinion on the interaction I personally had with Dave. I felt respected and validated in a way that I hadn’t felt previously from him.
I think Teen Mania’s time is limited….so sad because when I was an intern 98-99 HA said they were experiencing their largest growth yet…I expected the ministry to keep growing and prospering….when it stayed the same size for several years it should make even the most loyal alumni wonder the reason why. I believe it will shrink and eventually shut down. Maybe not ATF, but HA possibly.
Personally I dont think this site was created to war with teen mania… It is a way for those of us who were hurt by the ministry to heal.
serenity
“RA – Now that the evil Hasz has abdicated his throne, what’s your move? Is this site done? Or will you continue to fight until the HA & Teen Mania goes completely under.”
Now that the “evil Hasz” has abdicated his throne… will interns stop being abused and mistreated?
Doubt it.
But at least your comment shows your absolute ignorance of the purpose of this site.
Has anyone considered the possibilty that Jon & Dave are simply being thrown under the bus by Ron? That they are being used as scapegoats for the negative publicity that the HA has received?
Snackerson,
I think your speculation about Ron getting angry at his CFO for not being able to double their budget to accommodate his “dreams” and “visions” is probably only too accurate 🙁 and something that is unfortunately common these days. I’ve seen lots of churches go ahead with something that will create debt for them because they have faith that God will provide.
I’m not here to judge that, at all. I’ve seen it work before. But what you can’t do is get mad at your financial people when you plan to have more expenses than income and then – shocker! – you go in the red.
Doug, I have considered that and find it to be the most likely scenerio
RA – You seem to be getting tired. I’ve been involved in this community for almost 2 full years. Teen Mania made an announcement that Dave & Jon have left the ministry and all we get from you is a copy and paste? There are hundreds of alumni who are hurting. TM still has Stoner, Luce, and countless others abusing (physically, sexually, emotionally, mentally, and financially) the current interns. No posts. Please post more updates. Help keep this community alive. Don’t get soft on us.
Hi Carey,
I’m not sure what to make of your post…I don’t think I’ve heard your name before and your comment seems accusatory. Maybe thats not how you meant it, though…
If you want daily discussion of Teen Mania, please visit the Recovering Alumni facebook page. Its quite active.
RA – I just meant it as encouragement. I’ll head of to FB. Thanx.
Hi Carey – Thanks for the clarification. Please join us on fb. 🙂
This seems like such a great thing for all of us Recovering Alumni but I am just confused. It seems to me that Dave Hasz and Jon Hasz are the front men that are taking the fall. Ron Luce has yet to make any form of apology. His actions on the documentary were very odd and I think that this whole problems goes back to the LUCE himself. I think DH, JH, and many of us fell under Ron Luce’s brainwashing techniques and didn’t recognize it until too late. I hope the best for the Hasz Bros. Hopefully, they will detox from the “bubble” themselves. I’m not taking up for them or anything, just sayin… Ron Luce hasn’t made any attempts that I know of to make things better, Has he? He sure did let DH take the load for the Honor Academy though.
Let us keep Ron Luce and his family in our prayers right now. One of his daughters was in a plane crash yesterday somewhere in Kansas. All others on the plane have passed away. Although we may each have grievances with TM, it does not change the fact that Ron is still our brother in the Lord. One of the passengers who passed away was a staff member at TM. Please pray for the families that are devestated by this terrible event.
Wow, I am late to reading this info, so it’s a shock. Out of all the brainwashing/reformed thinking I went through at TM, it’s Dave’s voice that replays the loudest in my head. I went on an Amsterdam trip with John and Kelly as the leaders…. I don’t know what it means, but it’s definitely interesting to see them leave after everything that has happened.
If Hasz told tons of interns “if you don’t feel God calling you out of HA then rent my properties,” perhaps HE should move into a dorm, start sweeping, eating catfood and other nonsense until God reveals his next steps! Wouldn’t that be grand?
Wow, just found out… Just gave a sigh of relief, feels so good. That news is healing…