If you want to revisit the first part of Erin’s story, links are below. Tomorrow will be the final installment about her GI year.
Erin’s Story, Part 1
Erin’s Story: Part 2
I didn’t grow up in a Christian home AT ALL. I was raised Agnostic with a Christian tilt, very liberal and pretty much God-less. I had a radical conversion when I was 17where my family thought I had gone nuts and I thought I had too. lol. So I wasn’t raised in church ever. I don’t really get jokes about flannel-graphs and I question EVERYTHING. Not because I’m a skeptic but because I genuinely want to know the things of God.
Teen Mania however was full of church kids. And if you were staff most likely you had been at T.M. since you were 18 and didn’t ever get out and didn’t know anything about the world. Well, me, coming from the world I had a lot of questions with very few people who could answer them.
My number one question- “Is the bible really the word of God?” I never asked this question because I didn’t believe, I just asked it because no one could tell me why I was supposed to believe it (don’t worry, I understand why now). And I found that to be the case with a lot of my questions, “Why do we fast?” “Why did Jesus die on the cross?” just really basic questions that I never knew because no one had ever told me. I was a really young believer. It would confuse me because I would generally get one of three responses.
The #1 response (and most upsetting)- The person would have no idea but try to cover it up like they did. A perfect example: In Matthew and Luke there are two different genealogies of Jesus. Whenever I asked this question this was ALWAYS how the conversation went down – “Have you heard about the two different genealogies in Luke and Matthew?” “Yeah, one is for Joseph and one is for Mary.” OR “Yeah, one is in Hebrew and the other in Greek.”
This was very upsetting for me. They are both of Joseph and the same language, it was OBVIOUS the person had no idea what I was talking about but they would act like they did know! Which in my younger days would just confuse me. I just wanted to know the answer but here is my spiritual leaders unable to give an answer and then lying to me. I couldn’t trust people to humble themselves and just be honest.
#2- The person didn’t know the answer to the question (like, why the Bible was the word of God) but didn’t know why they believed it so they would give a cheesy answer like, “It testifies of itself as the word of God.” (which it totally does, but that isn’t really an answer to my question) instead of just saying, “I don’t know why. But I know it’s true.”
#3- I would get “I don’t know.” It was pretty rare if there was someone that could actually answer my question.
A very specific issue I had was with speaking in tongues. There was so much controversy over that, “Can everyone speak in tongues? What’s the deal with it? Can I? Why don’t I?” I talked to my C.A. R.D. staff members and it was all different. All I knew is I didn’t speak in tongues and wanted to, but it wasn’t happening. I felt like I was ‘unclean’ or something or in sin because I couldn’t. And that was the attitude of some people. There wasn’t much consistency on those biblical topics. Speaking in tongues, prophesy, dreams, visions. It was all just a mystery that no one knew about.
But the thing that I know now that I didn’t know then is that I didn’t need anyone to answer my questions, I needed someone to point me to God. That’s why I would always be confused because I needed to develop my walk with the Spirit. But Teen Mania doesn’t help you do that (maybe they do and I just missed it) they train up “leaders” with all the answers to everything. Because we’re trying to do it in our own strength and be the best we can (though no one realizes that’s what’s happening) when the Spirit convicts us we don’t know what to do with it. And that was what was confusing me. I was getting convicted, no one could answer my question so I assumed there wasn’t an answer and would push it away, which would kill me inside.
I set up a meeting with Ron Luce just because I wanted to before I graduated. My question: “So what is going on with the new Honor Academies? Are they working out?”
(The H.A.’s had totally bombed and weren’t going down at all. I didn’t know this. I’m thinking he might have thought I was criticizing him or something. I wasn’t.)
His response: He got really quiet. Didn’t smile, sounded really angry and replied, “Why do you want to know that?” I kinda panicked. I was really intimidated. I didn’t know why I had upset him and it was really awkward. I just wanted to get out of there. I told him I was just curious and sorta ended the meeting then. We had 15 minutes set aside for meeting time, we only met for 5. Looking back that’s probably why he was so upset (because he thought I was being critical) I didn’t know that at the time though. I was just freaked out about Ron Luce being so mad at me for no reason. lol.
By the end of my intern year I had pretty much had it with T.M. I was so confused all the time, hated my ministry placement (at that point it was the Mob. My M.P. changed a few times that year) fought with my C.A. all the time about everything, (Dramatics of Januaries and having a C.A. you were an intern with.), couldn’t stand Aug.’s (lol. still funny to say out loud.) the classes were really boring, I was questioning my salvation, I hated worship, fasting, praying and I didn’t trust reading the Bible so I didn’t bother with it.
I was a MESS spiritually.
But then our second fasting L.T.E. happened (about three weeks before we graduated.) I encountered God and got revived instantly. I felt like things had totally changed. I was skipping class to pray, I was enjoying my ministry placement for the first time since August, I was passionate again, I LOVED fasting and worship. It was amazing. I figured that I had just been a bad intern and not paying close enough attention to what Teen Mania had been teaching me that I should stay a second year and become a better Christian. Because surely I couldn’t learn any of this stuff anywhere else. I thought Teen Mania was the place to be. So I stayed.
My G.I. year was a total disaster. At least my intern year was pretty structured. I got put in a new program, it was terrible, The director of the undergrads STRAIGHT UP lied to me about what the program was going to be. The program ended up a total dud, we were completely forgotten about and after the first month had no classes. I felt betrayed and like Teen Mania only wanted me to stay because they wanted my free labor and my money.
To be continued…
21 comments:
MDSF said…
This is a great piece of writing, very clear and on point. Thanks so much for sharing this.
The archetype of the “strong leader with all the answers” is the millstone around the neck of conservative Christian groups everywhere, and the questions being asked here: “in what sense is X true?” and “what are you really doing when you’re asking questions?” are really helpful in understanding what’s wrong with this archetype.
January 13, 2010 10:05 AM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Erin, thanks so much for sharing. I was definitely one of those people who shunned others for questioning their faith!
Honestly, I actually had the same questions- and was terrified of asking them. Because if you don’t have all the answers, you obviously don’t have faith.
Thank you for the breath of fresh air, and the reminder that it is not only okay, but GOOD, to ask questions. :]
January 13, 2010 10:24 AM
Diane said…
“My question: “So what is going on with the new Honor Academys? Are they working out?”
(The H.A.’s had totally bombed and weren’t going down at all. I didn’t know this.”
I’m actually kind of confused by this – what exactly are you talking about here? The newest class of interns? Was this meeting before you graduated? It’s just a little unclear to me…
January 13, 2010 11:09 AM
h. said…
TM was trying to expand their influence by setting up more campuses both around the US and globally. They had an “HA North” up in Minnesota set up on Bethany College of Mission’s campus, but it shut down when TM started having their more serious financial issues. They were in the process of setting up an HA Uganda with Martin Ssempa’s church before the whole “we’re gonna kill gay people for being gay” thing happened, so that fell through–but they’re still looking for a country to launch an international HA through. And I’m not sure if it’s still around, but there’s an “HA of the Ozarks” out there somewhere, that has like 15 interns or something in it, but I’m fairly removed from that, so I really don’t have any details–but I’m pretty sure if you googled it, you could find it, or even that there’s probably a link to it on the TM website if it’s survived.
January 13, 2010 12:42 PM
Erin said…
lol. Hey cool! I didn’t know this part was gonna get published on here. Fun surprise this morning. 😉
To answer Diane about the H.A. (This was actually different, H., then what you said). Back in Aug. ’07 right before or after the new class of interns came in Mr. Hasz rolled out this whole deal about a four year internship plan. there were going to be 1st and 2nd year G.I.’s who paid a full tuition then the 3rd and 4th years the G.I.’s would be Jr.’s in College and the H.A. would pay for them. Or something. and they wanted to start a whole bunch of mini internships. I think it would be something kind of like master’s commission. They wanted all their interns to have 4 year degree’s from college. Then they would be ready to be ‘H.A. directors.’
there were different status’s you could have and he wanted EVERYONE in on it. We all had to work together to get that thing going.
Well. They rolled it all out to us and then just never said anything about it ever again. When I met with Mr. Luce I just simply asked him what was going on with them and if they were still happening. He got REALLY offended it felt like. Like I was attacking. I didn’t want to attack him at all. I was really terrified in the moment and just kinda got awkward and left. What else was I supposed to do? lol.
January 13, 2010 1:31 PM
h. said…
wow…totally didn’t know that portion of it. it sounds like the inevitable direction that things were taking when i graduated though…after you get roped into a second year, you think it’s over–until you realize that they’re going to pressure for a third and fourth year.
what you’re describing, erin, is actually worse than i thought it was. really–people getting 4-yr degrees is admirable, but they can totally do that at a legit COLLEGE, away from TM…what you’re talking about sounds like a smokescreen for free labor, eventually perpetuating the TM system by keeping interns locked in for an undetermined time under the guise of “the Lord’s work”. horrific.
January 13, 2010 1:51 PM
Ben said…
why do i get the feeling that ron could seriously go psycho under the right circumstances…
January 13, 2010 2:22 PM
Erin said…
lol. H. You were after ’07 right? or like, ’07-’08? Yeah that’s why this was so weird! They rolled it out to us, then the ’06-’07 Aug left and they never said another thing about it! And then come to find out: they all failed! which just says to me they don’t fess up to their own mistakes and expect interns to roll with what ever they say in the moment.
Dumb.
and To Ben – haha. You have no idea. It was the creepiest thing EVER.
But I do want to say in Mr. Luce’s defense, I think he does really love people and care about them. I don’t want to sound like I’m bashing the guy at all. Cause he’s actually really nice. And Katie too. From my interactions with them they’ve always been pretty godly.
I was just so freaked out in the moment cause he got real weird all of a sudden.
I still don’t really get why. I didn’t say anything rude or attacking. But maybe that’s how it sounded. I don’t get T.M.
January 13, 2010 3:51 PM
h. said…
okay, perhaps i just lived on a different planet…
haha. i was totally there 05-06, and 06-07…but i was an MTer, and let’s just be real…we weren’t exactly ministry favorites, so it’s highly likely that they talked to you guys about it and kept us out of the loop. we weren’t always well recieved, ha.
January 13, 2010 11:30 PM
Diane said…
Huh. Sounds like the CE program they used to have when I was there (Continuing Education or something). Basically, after being an intern or GI, you’d work FULL-TIME at the ministry AND go to school FULL-TIME (ridiculous; these poor people nearly went crazy).
And instead of paying you, TM would pay your tuition and give you room and board… (Most people just went to Tyler Junior College, but I know one person who was smart and took full advantage and went to U of T at Tyler.)
But then they started running out of room and forced the CE’s to move off-campus… And then pay for their own housing…
January 14, 2010 10:39 AM
Ben said…
Erin – yeah i’ve no doubt he’s a well-intentioned guy. it does seem that there are many idols around being successful all through that place though, and we as people get really defensive/angry/crazy really fast when someone starts poking at our idols.
January 14, 2010 12:19 PM
Natalie said…
OK! To H. If you see this. 😉
I was an intern when you were on Mt! And I TOTALLY remember all that stuff about the ministry team.
oh man. I’m so sorry. I didn’t know very many M.T.’ers so I didn’t know the drama. But I do remember walking by a few M.T.’s who were up in the top of Caff. and another intern told me that they all listened to secular music and were causing huge problems with the ministry because they weren’t obeying the rules. So we silently came to the conclusion that the M.T.ers weren’t living up to the standard.
Basically. Not being good Christians.
That really happened!!!
And the dumbest part… I think at least. The next year Mr. Hasz told the internship to be extra nice to the M.T.ers when they come back to campus. Me being there for the first class and seeing the next class- the next group of Ministry Teamers had no problem at all! no one was mean to them, and all the interns were EXTRA nice. Practically babied ‘um!
Not because that’s what you do naturally. But because Mr. Hasz said something.
Friggen Teen Mania.
January 14, 2010 12:21 PM
Ex-Intern Aug 07 said…
Ben – I would say the biggest idol for me personally (and for a lot of interns) during my year was the Honor Ring. It was all about the ring (the ring), the ring (the line)…..AHEM Haha.
Natalie – I remember all the rumours and stuff about the MTers….luckily both times I volunteered during the summers of 06 and 07 I spent a lot of time with MTers and most of them are the people I stay in contact with and am still really close to since I left!
My intern year though, the same rumours about the MTers were also spread about School of Worship and CCMers too!
One of my friends during my intern year was a CCMer, and she was kicked out by Doug Rittenhouse because, and I quote, she was “too weird and just didn’t fit in”. She had paid her whole CCM tuition ($13,000 or something) before she started, and this happened after being there for almost a year!
January 14, 2010 4:12 PM
Nunquam Honorablus said…
Ex-Intern… wow. I can’t believe that Doug would just boot somebody out like that. Woah. That grieves me. Seriously.
Ridiculous! Aaarrg.
But yes, I can certainly attest to CCMer/MTer rumors, though not so much SOW. Granted, the people I knew in SOW were all like extreme Calvinists (or recent Calvie-converts), so they had their own set of rumors :p
As a CCMer, I even got an email invitation to a “red-headed stepchildren of TM party”… haha, oh man.
January 14, 2010 10:22 PM
h. said…
haha–we totally used to joke that CCMers were our cousins, and together we were the “red-headed stepchildren” of the ministry. i have lots of stories about the spiritual abuse that occurred my intern year, but the downright DISRESPECT that happened my MT year pushed a lot of us right over the edge.
despite the garbage, i LOVED my MT year…and really, the more TM harped at us to be more like the interns, the more the blinders came off and we began to see the HA for what it really was. So in that respect, I’m glad it happened [the abuse], because i think without it, i easily could have gone on stupidly believeing everything they told me.
i mean at one point, when we came back on campus after tour, they moved the girls into the dorms–and a close friend wound up in carey hall. the RD came into the MT room and sat them down to tell them that under no circumstances were we [the MT girls] to have any contact with her girls, as we were horrid examples and they didn’t need our distractions and deceptions…and that’s just ONE story from the way the ministry treated us, from the top down. we weren’t “perfect interns” [i could write a book about that], so therefore we weren’t to contaminate the rest of them. the interns had nothing to learn from us…we were supposed to learn from them, or the CAs.
January 15, 2010 12:11 AM
Anonymous said…
these abbreviations are too much! JGWTF?!
January 15, 2010 12:45 AM
Anonymous said…
The acronyms are another teen mania annoyance. You could have a whole conversation with nothing but conjunctions and letters!
January 15, 2010 1:14 AM
s said…
RA, could you (and any others in this community) please compile as many acronyms as possible, and perhaps create a page or separate entry that just defines all of them? There are people who regularly read this blog who didn’t attend the internship and we get lost real fast. Please consider something, at the very least.
February 11, 2010 5:35 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
s – that is a great suggestion and I will get to work on that.
February 11, 2010 8:41 PM
Anonymous said…
My daughter is finishing her first year at the HA & she wanted to go for a 2nd year. She is not thankfully. The place sounds like it just uses kids for their own agenda. I wished she had never gone there. She tells me about people who get kicked out & I ask her whay & she says people don’t talk about it. Sounds weird to me.
June 28, 2010 3:23 PM
Anonymous said…
@ the mom above: The interns are NOT ALLOWED to talk about a dismissed intern or ask why they were dismissed. More secrecy (like ESOAL). And yes, it is weird and WRONG.
June 28, 2010 7:15 PM
