This question has come up time and time again. As an intern, we joked about how the townsfolk nearby thought we were a cult. It was funny, because of course we weren’t a cult!
It wasn’t until several years later, when I came across a long list of cult characteristics that I began to seriously ask this question. I was really surprised to find that many of the characteristics on that list were present in the Honor Academy. Unfortunately, I can’t find that exhaustive list, but here is one provided by the International Cultic Studies Association – with my Teen Mania specific comments in italics.
– The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
True. Whether or not its explicitly encouraged by the leadership, interns highly venerate both Ron Luce and Dave Hasz. In fact, I’ve seen an Honor Academy Alumni website forum where interns felt the need to clarify that Ron Luce is not God. Of course, nobody “says” he is God, but his teachings and personality (as well as Dave Hasz, the director of the Honor Academy) have become so synonymous with God and with God’s will that it becomes very hard to make a distinction. If anyone criticizes or questions anyone in leadership, they are immediately pounced on by fellow interns and told they should only speak about it privately to the person in question. The assumption is always that the concerned party must have misunderstood or that the leadership has a valid (unknown) reason for doing/saying whatever they did.
– Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
True. This was exceedingly true during my time there. When I brought up legitimate questions about what the leadership was doing, it was made very clear to me that I was “in rebellion” and “not submitted” or that I was “stirring up division.” This kind of attitude further reinforces the point above that whatever the leaders say is God’s will and you shouldn’t go against it.
- Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
True. Debilitating work routines are the norm at Teen Mania. Nearly every moment of an intern’s day is scheduled, usually leaving less than 6-7 hours for sleep. I wouldn’t say that meditation, chanting, etc were used to suppress doubts so much as the teaching that you need to obey the leadership.
Click to Read: Is Teen Mania a Cult? Part 2
26 comments:
Maybe I’m just a little bit more bold in questioning crap and very good at debate, but I found that when I openly questioned procedure with a well thought out way to improve it my ideas were generally welcomed.
Will that be the norm of a 19-21 yr old? Probably not. But if they went to the actual leaders instead of the leaders in training (ACA, CA, and most GIs) they’d probably have a completely different experience.
Stephen,
Do you see how you are blaming the vicims by saying they aren’t being good enough leaders?
I went on a website that listed cult characteristics as well and would say that Teen mania fits in almost all of them.
I still find myself a little isolated from time to time. I have to check in with myself and pull back into society lol.
I had a lot of doubts while I was there but I didn’t question leadership. I thought it, but I didn’t verbalize it.
Questioning leadership and rebellion are two totally different things. Rebellion is going against leadership without good reason. Questioning is healthy and a part of our reasoning and is how we learn and bring clarity.
David questioned God and God answered. He didn’t question his authority, but he definitely had questions.
If God can be questioned, who is teen mania?
No one even thinks ron or dave are God lol. And leadership welcomes our questions and concerns or ideas. We have this thing called the VIBE survey where we can express all those things and the leadership reads over every single one and tries as best possible to address them and make the internship for us even better. I think the leadership is great 🙂
I feel extremly sad that after all the work that we went through to get to the HA it seems as though there was a negative thing going on through peoples minds. True some aspects of the HA and TM are bad. But I must remind the church that we are all children of God, I believe that Mr. Hasz and Mr. Luce are christians, they will go to heaven, whether or not TM is a cult, and You will be stuck with them for the rest of eternity, we must learn to frogive, and to heal. I can only hope this will occurr.
@anon ~ where we end up on the other side of this life does not negate the pain and abuse we experienced by their hands. THIS is how we forgive…by sharing, receiving validation, and extending love and hope to one another. so, thank you for your well-intentioned admonishment, but we truly are on the path to forgiveness and healing. it just might not look like you want it to look, and it might make you highly uncomfortable. but it doesn’t mean there is anything wrong with our process.
also, in the most technical sense, TM is not “the church”, by their own admission. 🙂
TM is no way a cult in any way… I am a parent and have freely visited the campus and attended many of the ATF’S.. TM encourages families to be involved,, they encourage all the interns to find a home church one off campus.. They are training leaders and I am PROUD to be a Teen Mania SOW Mom
Marion – Are you saying that none of these cult criteria happen at the HA?
Just remember, they have to make it look attractive, otherwise nobody would join.
Marion–I, too, was a parent that freely visited the campus, went to ATFs and Battlecry’s and whole-hearted encouraged my child to do the HA. I bought into the whole ‘line’ and was totally blinded to the legalism, works-mentality and lack of grace. We were devastated as a family when my child made a mistake and broke an HA ‘rule’ and was thrown out of there like the trash with no mercy or grace…
My prayer is that you wake up to the legalism going on down there–the whole ‘elite warrior’ thing stirs up pridefulness and makes these kids think they are better than everyone else. Just wait until your child visits home and tries to ‘relate’ to his/her friends–they can’t–
I pray that your child makes it through there unscathed and will be a good worship leader.
I went on a GE trip, and now i am almost embarrassed to say i went. Those “mission” trips are a waste of time!!! they are not missions at all. @Rec. A., did they are teach you doctrine in the classes? spurgeon, wesley, Edwards? anyone?
@Mitch T, why was it a waste of time? I am about to go on one, so I would like to know… please and thanks.
Hello, I have a question for the group, my daughter wants to attend the HA in Texas. I am looking for a little information to guide my decision. Any pro’s or con’s would be appreciated.
Concerned Parent
Hi anonymous parent, I would read the true stories section on the right hand column as well as the information on ESOAL and decide for yourself whether or not this is a place where you want your daughter to go. As a parent myself, I would never want my daughter to attend the HA because of the spiritual abuse that goes on there. My parents have also since regretted sending me there. Personally, it’s taken me over 10 years to get over my experience. I changed, but not for the better and have been struggling with my relationship with God ever since.
As you’ll see in many of the true stories (mine included), one of the problems is that TM takes an incredibly legalistic/controlling stance on a lot of things and makes the participants feel like if they don’t follow do exactly what anyone in TM leadership says that there is something wrong with their spiritual lives and that their rebellious. Now, I’m all for following Jesus and scripture, and for respecting authority, but TM takes scriptures about submission to authority and turns them on their head. In TM’s teaching about submission to authority, if you even question what they say/teach/ask you to do, you’re not being submissive and therefore your relationship with God should be called into question. That’s how TM chooses to enforce a litany of man-made rules like: you must have your quiet times in the morning not the evening, you shouldn’t drink soda, you have to run 3 miles, etc…. Anyway, a year of having your relationship with God called into question if you disagree with anything (even potentially harmful things – see ESOAL) can have a very damaging affect on the individuals that participate.
So there’s my 2 cents – hope that helps.
im not quite sure i understand, but are you calling Christianity a cult, because that is what you are describing…. were you threatened to be hurt if you leave? because if it was a cult they wouldn’t let you leave …
@Anon – We are calling Teen mania and the inability to read God’s word and decide what it means for yourself to find a prayer schedule that works for you and to not be physically and emotionally abused while trying to find GOD in his word.
The thing is Teen Mania doesn’t try and let you leave like seriously calls to your family and any sponsors to try to get you back, ect, Teen Mania IS a CULT True Christianity is a relationship with Christ before men which is NOT what this organization promotes.
Anon (Most Recent) – Preventing a person from leaving is actually only one attribute of a cult. The Honor Academy does not physically prevent people with force, but it does psychologically and spiritually prevent them. It also fits every single other attribute of a cult, specifically those identified by Robert Lifton.
Recovering Alumni, You stated that these are the chareacteristic of a cult. I would like to explain some things…
The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
1) They are ofcourse encouraged to have over zealous and unquestioning commmitment to their leader at teen mania, but not to ron luce or dave hasz. It`s to Jesus! Everything they say is Biblically sound. What they are saying, they get from the Bible. The Bibe is Law. It is truth.
Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
Why would dissent not be frowned upon? As well as questioning. Because we are suppose to respect our authority.They wanted you to learn to obey without question. They werent leading you astray. We shouldn`t be doubting Christian princpls or the Bible..
– Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
In reguards to having your mind altered..ofcourse we need our mind altered! It sounds like brainwashing, but who dosnt need their mind cleansed and renewed. They arent brainwashing us to kill lol they are brainwashing us to have unfaltering faith in the word of God and its promises
Oh Taylor, Taylor, Taylor….How sweet and young you are. I appreciate your zeal, I really do. I’ll bet you have a very sincere heart…but you don’t understand the nature of brainwashing (its not the same as having your mind renewed) and you don’t understand the proper use of authority. 🙁
Taylor-
“They are ofcourse encouraged to have over zealous and unquestioning commmitment to their leader at teen mania, but not to ron luce or dave hasz. It`s to Jesus! Everything they say is Biblically sound. What they are saying, they get from the Bible. The Bibe is Law. It is truth.”
Sadly, interns are expected to be zealous over the HA and the leaders of the HA more so than Jesus.
“Why would dissent not be frowned upon? As well as questioning. Because we are suppose to respect our authority.They wanted you to learn to obey without question. They werent leading you astray. We shouldn`t be doubting Christian princpls or the Bible..”
I remember very distinctly something my pastor said when I was a kid. He said to question everything… His desire was for us to research, think, and learn for ourselves, not just blindly follow him because he was the pastor of our church. He would purposely say something ridiculous in his sermon to see if anyone was really paying attention. As far as I can tell, God isn’t concerned if someone has a question. TM expects you to BLINDLY follow what they say because they are in authority. That is a dangerous place to be.
“In reguards to having your mind altered..ofcourse we need our mind altered! It sounds like brainwashing, but who dosnt need their mind cleansed and renewed. They arent brainwashing us to kill lol they are brainwashing us to have unfaltering faith in the word of God and its promises”
Um, brainwashing is NEVER a good thing. It means that you no longer think for yourself.
Taylor, you have a LOT to learn. I am sorry that you have been so blinded by TM.
Taylor – R.A. said those three things are the characteristics of a cult. And then you said Teen Mania actually has those three qualities…
As for you being devoted to Jesus – It’s the same thing if you think you are devoted to Jesus but actually doing everything Dave says to.
What does Dave teach about Jesus? (I’m actually quite curious, I had never heard anything about Him while I was at the H.A.)
*Not YOU being devoted to Jesus. Sorry – I meant for the H.A. teaching that Jesus is the one you are following.
“Everything they say is Biblically sound.”
No, it isn’t.
At all.
I’d refer you to my article Antidotes to Spiritual Abuse which takes common teachings of groups similar to TM and examines them with Scripture. Not only are these teaching about “authority” not biblically sound, they completely contradict the Bible and the words of Jesus. If you want to follow Jesus wholeheartedly, you have to object to brainwashing and authoritarianism.
Hi, Taylor,
You do sound like a very earnest person. Are you perhaps about to enroll at the HA? You’re not likely a current intern, because they’re not allowed to access this site.
I remember thinking some similar things as you at one point in my life. However, some very CHRISTIAN leaders taught me that asking questions is okay. It’s always okay to ask questions. Think about the fact that Jesus taught through questions–he encouraged people to think critically about their faith, and never to take something at face value. Asking questions can deepen your faith. It certainly has mine.
If you want to talk about this, let me know. I was never an intern, so I don’t have a lot at stake in defending it or tearing it down. Even though I am an active participant in this community, I think you might find me to be a pretty evenhanded voice on the subject of Teen Mania.
You can find me on FB: http://www.facebook.com/lizboltzranfeld
I would love to tell you why many of us believe that asking questions is a good thing, and why doubt is actually an important Christian trait. We can talk about famous Christian doubters in history, including many who you probably look up to greatly.
I hope to hear from you, Taylor.
Taylor,
I would’ve had the exact same arguments as you back when I was at TMM. Actually, I think I used those arguments to justify a lot of what happened to me at TMM.
If you really step back and take a look at what is in the Gospel and contrast it to what is happening (and has been happening) at TMM, I think you will see that they are at odds with one another.
The Teen Mania Gospel does not stand up in the real world because it focuses not on how loving God is, but how “totally on-fire” we should be, in order to prove how great our God is. And, at the HA they constantly monitor, evaluate and judge your “on-fire quotient.”
Dave Hasz and Ron Luce have no idea about the depth of love any of us has for Christ.
I think many who look like they are “on fire” are really white-washed tombs, full of dead man’s bones.
“Dave Hasz and Ron Luce have no idea about the depth of love any of us has for Christ.
I think many who look like they are “on fire” are really white-washed tombs, full of dead man’s bones.”
THIS!!! Well said..
Wow. I read some of these and its sad to think you talk about TM being a cult.
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