ESOAL, Judgement and the Sin of Personal Boundaries

UPDATE: Teen Mania took down this video within hours of this post. Commenter Ben helped me get it back up via YouTube. Thanks, Ben!

In this ESOAL facilitation training video, there is a very revealing exchange during the Q & A time. Because I have no doubt they will take this video down as soon as I link to it, I have written out the relevant portion below (the question has been edited for clarity). The exchange begins at 47:55.

The question is asked (presumably by a GI): Last year I had a facilitator grab a cricket and try and make me eat it or my sister was gonna have to do a push up. And then when I tried to eat it, he was like “You idiot.” Is that ok to do that kind of stuff?

Dave: I would rather we not even suggest that people eat crickets. Because what will happen is – you’re mature you handled it well, you’re like ok give me the cricket – what will happen is someone will blog later and say “If I didn’t eat this cricket, this girl was going to have to do pushups and I didn’t want to eat it so this girl had to do pushups. I can’t believe my facilitator told me I had to eat a cricket.” And that is the way it will be interpreted to the outside world that like we are having people eat crickets.

So, basically, Dave Hasz is openly saying that if you choose not to eat a cricket during ESOAL, you are immature. Let this sink in for a minute because it is absolutely ridiculous AND spiritually abusive.

This is just another example, of many, in which the leadership of Teen Mania discourages you from setting any personal boundaries. To them personal boundaries equals not submitting, not being mature or generally not being a very good Christian.

The truth is that you have the right to your own body and to your own thoughts, feelings and desires. When these conflict with Christ’s commands or leading, you are to discard them. This is the true meaning of dying to the flesh.

However, in their twisted thinking, Teen Mania would like you to think that dying to the flesh means doing whatever they want you to do, whether or not it actually has anything to do with your Christian maturity. This leaves interns in an extremely vulnerable place and open to control and manipulation. If you are told that going against any authority is ungodly or immature, how are you supposed to think for yourself or set healthy boundaries?

God did not design us to relinquish control of our desires or thoughts to others, even to Christian leaders. Boundaries are a God-given mechanism to keep us safe from abusive behaviors. But, when we are taught to ignore those boundaries, we make ourselves wide open to those abuses.

Some might argue that this exchange is minor and an unfair attack. However, I would contend that this is just one example of a systematic pattern of thinking and teaching which states that those who do not follow instructions (regardless of what those instructions are) are labeled black sheep, immature, and “lesser than” Christians. On top of that, these instructions are often ludicrous and non-Biblical.

Dave, what gives you the right to declare a Christian as less mature than another because they refuse to eat a cricket?

I haven’t even touched on the fact that the only reason Dave Hasz does not want this behavior going on is because he does not want the outside world to know about it – not because he thinks its actually wrong. I find that alarming.

30 comments:

Anonymous said…

THANK YOU!
This is so exactly what I needed hear.
That’s all I can get out. There’s too much. (or not enough.) Thank you.
Just.
Thank you.
December 3, 2009 8:13 AM

h. said…

also interesting point, although not the point you’ve made with this incredibly insightful post [thank you!]:

“the purpose of ESOAL is to give all of the participants an opportunity to be in a situation where they have to discipline their emotions. they have to control their flesh, control their thoughts, channel their pain and manage their discomfort and manage their emotions.”

at first glance, that doesn’t sound wrong…as Christians we SHOULD learn to discipline our flesh…but i think the unspoken insinuation throughout ESOAL is that emotion–any kind of feeling–is wrong. for days [or however long the LTE] your emotions are invalidated and you are broken down from an individual into a unit–one number among a platoon of numbers.

what does it mean to “discipline my emotions”? the worst thing you can do for any individual is invalidate the way that they feel. maybe they feel the way that they do from a misconception…but the fact remains that whatever happened made them FEEL a specific way, and that’s not wrong. perhaps their reaction is, or where they go with the emotion later, but the emotion itself is not sinful. don’t misread me; some emotions are able to lead us into sin, or are sinful in their own right; jealousy, for instance. but if the premise of ESOAL is a situation in which it purposefully leads interns into situations where we think and feel these things, and then tells us [after hours of simulated or real abuses] that it’s WRONG to feel angry, or depressed, or whatever–that the HOLY thing is to submit to the leadership and allow them to do what they will–it’s no wonder we’re radically pro-TM after the fact.

i listened to a great sermon by mark driscoll the other day about trial…and he validated the believer’s NEED to FEEL. in the scriptures, there are tons of examples of times when people–JESUS, even–felt strong emotions, not all of them pleasant. i’m going to go through trial in my life regardless; we live in a fallen world, and there will be situations in my life in which i have the opportunity to learn big lessons, and learn how to “discipline my flesh”–and perhaps manage my reaction, not necessarily my emotion. but i suppose i’d rather let God determine when that’s necessary, really.
December 3, 2009 10:38 AM

Anonymous said…

Uh Oh!!!!!
December 3, 2009 12:58 PM

Ben said…

FYI, i’ve got part two downloaded. it was still in my cache, but part one wasn’t.
December 3, 2009 4:25 PM

Recovering Alumni said…

I actually have part 1 downloaded. Unfortunately, I can’t edit it to post b/c its in .mov instead of .avi. Any techie people out there that can help me with that?
December 3, 2009 4:29 PM

Ben said…

ANYONE WHO WANTS TO TRY: if you haven’t viewed the page with part one on it since it was taken down, but you did before, go click on ‘work offline’ in your browser (probably under the file menu) and find the page in your history and go to it. if the video is still in your cache, it will still play for you, and there are browser plugins (downloadhelper on firefox for example) that you can use to get the video. just DON’T load the page when you’re not working offline.
December 3, 2009 4:40 PM

Ben said…

recovering: i should be able to help. can you get it up somewhere and send me the link? i’ll shoot you an email so you have mine. i won’t be able to do it until later tonight because i’ll be out, but i’ll get on it as quick as i can.
December 3, 2009 5:01 PM

shyvioletgirl said…

So let me see if I understand.. Eating crickets is bad PR, but the very existence of ESOAL is not questioned? Exercising until you vomit, sleep deprivation, demeaning food, &c. is a valuable tool for discipleship? Sounds like brainwashing to me.
December 3, 2009 8:34 PM

Grace said…

I found your blog through John Weaver’s blog today, and read through the whole thing. Wow. I just want to say a big, huge THANK YOU for this site!

I didn’t really know much about Teen Mania before reading this. I went to ATF once, and I know of the Honor Academy, but never really looked into anything further.

So, although I have no experience with Teen Mania, I do have experience with another spiritually abusive program: Mercy Ministries. And while the specifics of each ministry is different, the underlying messages are basically the same. It all sounded very familiar. The submission to authority, the isolation, the pressure to stay there until they decided you were ready to leave, the shame if you left earlier, I could keep going on!

It’s so great to read about this sort of thing from a Christian perspective. I’ve been really struggling with my faith for the past three years, since I left Mercy. And I think your blog and the resources you’ve pointed out will really help me get back to actually having a relationship with God instead of mostly ignoring Him. =)

I have my own blog about Mercy, and I think reading your blog will help me with mine, in a way. There aren’t a whole lot of Christians speaking out about Mercy. The people who are speaking out are great, and they really care about helping the women who have been hurt by Mercy – but I’m afraid some Christians will dismiss what they’re saying because they are atheists. Plus, I just really want to get the Christian perspective out there…as much as I love the non-Christians who are speaking out, I just don’t agree with them on everything! Also, sometimes I can get carried away and speak out of anger and hurt rather than out of love. And I don’t see you doing that. From what I can see, you’re a great example of speaking the truth about a harmful ministry without bitterness, while being fair to the people you’re speaking about. And I can learn from that. So thank you.

Do you mind if I put a link to your site on my blog? I think it would be a great resource to direct people to, in regards to spiritual abuse. =)
December 3, 2009 11:29 PM

Recovering Alumni said…

Grace,

Thank you for your kind comment. I am so glad the blog has been helpful to you. Yes, please feel free to link to my blog and I look forward to reading yours as well.
December 3, 2009 11:33 PM

Recovering Alumni said…

Grace – I’m trying to comment on your blog but nothing happens when I click on ‘post a comment’
December 3, 2009 11:40 PM

Grace said…

All right, I will get that link up there! Thank you. =)

And thanks so much for letting me know about the comments. I think I was able to fix it, let me know if it’s still not working. I was kind of wondering why I hadn’t gotten any comments, despite letting people know about the site! Haha. I just figured either no one was reading it, or no one had anything to say. Nice to know that might not be the case. =)December 4, 2009 9:55 AMAnonymous said…

interesting that they took the video down. you knew they would, but interesting nonetheless.

it’s almost like they have something to hide.
December 4, 2009 11:31 AM

Anonymous said…

Hahaha! Maturity = eating crickets! Is that spiritual maturity or just regular adult maturity?
December 5, 2009 3:18 PM

Cassie said…

“This is just another example, of many, in which the leadership of Teen Mania discourages you from setting any personal boundaries. To them personal boundaries equals not submitting, not being mature or generally not being a very good Christian.”
Well stated! Having healthy boundaries is very important for everyone and any person or group who would discourage one from doing so should reconsider. The long term effects of being prevented from developing/maintaining healthy boundaries cannot be underestimated. Recognizing that we have the ability to openly say yes or no to something that may or may not make us comfortable is vital. Again, anyone who would discourage that is clearly in err.
December 5, 2009 7:55 PM

Recovering Alumni said…

Anonymous – it’s actually a version of maturity that is higher than BOTH of those – its “elite warrior” maturity. Because, you know, namby-pamby, kum-bay-yah Christians don’t eat crickets.
December 5, 2009 11:01 PM

Anonymous said…

R.A. Your, last comment raises an interesting point that TM DOES differentiate between “mature Christians” and “namby-pamby, kum-bay-yah Christians.” Ron totally made up these two groups of Christians. In God’s eyes, there is NOT an elite group of Christians. We are all his children and all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

You know, I’m happy to be a namby-pamby, kum-bay-yah Christian, because I’m entitled to the same love and eternal life as the mature “elite warrior” Christians who eat crickets AND I didn’t have to eat bugs to win my eternal life.

Note to Ron: Do you think God really looks at his children and pin-points some of them as namby-pamby, kum-bay-yah Christians — less good than the others? What kind of Heavenly Father does that?
December 6, 2009 9:19 PM

Anonymous said…

Ha ha, I’m a intern at TM and i totally know the GI asking that question 🙂 I could tell his voice anywhere 🙂
December 9, 2009 9:21 PM

Anonymous said…

I think what Hasz was saying is it is mature to sacrifice ones comfort (eating a cricket) for someone else (his sister). Hasz did not encourage in anyway people having interns eat crickets. But it is very christian to give up your comforts for someone you care about.
December 18, 2009 8:46 PM

Anonymous said…

I have not personally been through ESOAL, but I am wondering if there is any legal action to be taken regarding what TM is doing to people. Because really, its sick and twisted, and they should be held accountable for their actions by the law.
January 28, 2010 11:34 PM

Recovering Alumni said…

That is an excellent question. It does seem like this kind of thing should be illegal, or at the very least in some kind of violation of health codes. I’m really suprised no legal action has been taken yet.
January 29, 2010 11:55 AM

Josh said…

I know people in the military. And the framework (and a lot of the drills) used in ESOAL are borrowed from the military. And we do have the best military. So yes it is tough, but that doesn’t make TM psycho’s, because other people in other organizations do the same stuff.

Personally I did enjoy ESOAL. I know it’s not for everyone though. But for me, God gave me the grace to actually benefit from it.
March 16, 2010 8:56 PM

Eric P. said…

@Josh – In fact, cult researchers often point to similarities to the military and their techniques when diagnosing cultic mind-control practices. Here’s an article from Rick Ross comparing and contrasting the military and cults. When you point out that the framework and drills of ESOAL are borrowed from the military, you’re pointing out a characteristic that HA has in common with a lot of cults.

(Note, I do agree with RA’s conclusion on the question “Is TM a Cult?” However, these military-style practices when a group is not a military is to me a red flag the size of China.)
March 18, 2010 4:21 PM

Anonymous said…

a hahahaha ! if you’re mature you’ll say “okay give me the cricket” lol!!! i was an intern that would have eaten a cricket and added a notch to my christian belt because of it. Thank God that’s all in the past.

RA – this Q&A is a PERFECT example of type of small but continuous stuff that leadership would do at TM to create a brainwashed bunch of teenagers. I’m glad they never asked me to be part of a group suicide pact, I probably would have prayed about it 😉
March 18, 2010 4:58 PM

Anonymous said…

I was just thinking about ESOAL this morning and wanted to comment on my experience. (I am not reading the previous comments so if this is off topic sorry. 🙂
I did ESOAL because I felt like I should. I mean, why not take advantage of everything the year had to offer right? So I did. They woke us up at 3 am. Lame. I don’t much struggle with having to wake up in the middle of night. They made us march around for like an hour. Very lame. Then we had to do push ups and different exercises. I was bored with that too. (Honestly. I was just bored.) The day went on for about 12 more hours. More boring stuff I think was supposed to ‘push’ us. Rolling the hill. The O-course. Carrying the wooden crosses. Eating cold oatmeal. We had to do a dance number. I mean, it was all REALLY dumb. And boring.
I don’t know if anyone else had that experience. But, really, I was not having the kick-butt experience everyone had been talking about. I wasn’t irritated, I wasn’t even real tired. Just bored.
So I decided to ring the bell.
Not because I had hit ‘bar’ not cause I had broken my leg. Just bored.
I told my leader. He wouldn’t let me ring out for a few more hours. Basically because I was honest. He told me to hold out like another hour. The hour passed by… Still bored. He talked to Mr. Hasz. came back told me that him and Mr. Hasz both thought I shouldn’t ring out. Asked me if I still wanted to. I thought for a second… Yup. I did. I thought it was lame!
I walked up to Mr. Hasz, he told me he would rather see me stay in. I told him I didn’t want to and I was bored. I was totally respectful. Just honest.
He gave me a mini speach than told me to ring the bell.
Then 5 ‘broken’ interns(injuries) said some chant about ringing the bell and well done.
and I walked off.
My experience. – ESOAL was lame.
I also rang out before ‘sleep no sleep’ and having to eat all the funky stuff. But I’m assuming… Even all that… It would have been lame too.
March 23, 2010 3:06 PM

Anonymous said…

You know what is so interesting to me is the fact that so many interns and staff believe that ESOAL is truly the (Emotionally Stretching Opportunity of A Life time). HAHAHA. They obviously don’t live in the “REAL” world that surrounds us everyday.
While at I was at Teen Mania, My family was homeless, I was bulemic, I was dealing with being raped, my best friend was held at gun point, …
Needless to say, I didn’t sign up for ESOAL. And yes, people did look down on me for not doing it. They had no clue all I was going through but they made a clueless conclusion that I couldn’t “handle it.” Come on. Some of us don’t need ESOAL to prove that we can make it through hard times. Jesus proved that point when He died on the Cross and gave us the VICTORY over such things that come against us. Thanks to Jesus. He proved to me that I could make it through without having to yell in my face or make me eat weird things. In fact, He did the exact opposite. He LOVED me during all my EMOTIONS.
SOrry I just had to tell somebody. I’ve never expressed that outloud before.
April 5, 2010 10:08 PM

Anonymous said…

When did reading the Word and letting the Holy Spirit teach us go out of style? NOw we have to simulate false situations to TEST ourselves (or Stretch ourselves). I’ve come to this conclusion since I’ve been dealing with the days I spent at the HA. It goes like this, I’m going to spend time in the WOrd, Hiding it in my heart, so when the time comes that I have to be “stretched” I’ll be ready. In Peaceful times I will live with Peace and in trying times I will live like a Person with VICTORY and peace. Faith tells me that. Not a similation of rolling in the mud and doing something to “beat my flesh” can teach us that. The WORD OF GOD teaches us how to live in VICTORY and in strength.
April 6, 2010 7:56 AM

Layne Tanner said…

I don’t know, I kinda liked ESOAL. I’d never volunteer to do it again, but hey, now I know that if I’m ever thrown into a FEMA concentration camp, I might just make it through the first 3 days.
April 6, 2010 9:32 AM

Shay said…

Anonymous on April 5, 2010 @ 10:08

You make excellent correlations between Emotionally Stretching and REALITY! My life was no bed of roses either and I sometimes wonder if they consider that the actually events may actually trigger memories of people’s past experience and cause them to have flashbacks etc! I do NOT understand why the emotional life is ignored at the HA.

I am also happy to hear that you have turned to God in your suffering. He understands our suffering.
April 6, 2010 11:51 AM

Anonymous said…

Anon on April 5 @ Shay…

Thank you for your comment. I was hoping someone would be able to understand what I typed. I typed it in a hurry and didn’t think about my wording. It’s amazing how a little bit of affirmation can bring such healing.
May 14, 2010 10:46 PM