I just got off the phone with my contact from the board of directors. Before attempting to make changes, they would like to do a detailed discovery of the facts by interviewing both current and former participants and staff members of the Honor Academy. As my contact said, Teen Mania did not get into this situation overnight and they will not get out of it overnight. They plan to do a very thorough investigation in order to understand what changes really need to be made.
The immediate next step is to assemble the panel that will conduct the interviews and investigation. The panel will include individuals with backgrounds in psychology, counseling, medicine and pastoral/theological work. Once the panel has been assembled, they will let us know who sits on it and what their qualifications are.
They are not sure about the timeline, but hope to proceed with this discovery process as quickly and yet, as thoroughly, as possible. I think we can expect this phase to take a minimum of 2 months.
56 comments:
Nunquam Honorablussays:April 30, 2010 at 4:35 PM
EXCITED… EXCITED…!!
Holy cow, what great news!!! I’m so glad they’re taking this issue seriously!
Awesome. As well as I’d hoped and better than I’d expected.
Next step: Pray for objective, perceptive, and empathetic individuals to be selected for the panel.
(Hey, I’ve only been praying for this day for five years! Two more months won’t kill me!)
If they’re inclined to involve any professors from Moody Bible Institute, I can give some contact information for several. Seriously.
Anonymoussays:April 30, 2010 at 5:11 PM
good news….nice response from the Board, Bravo!
This is oh so very exciting. 🙂 It’ll be great to see TM go into the next glory, one with a greater revelation of God’s mercy and grace.
Mikaelasays:April 30, 2010 at 8:10 PM
awesome! great job, RA, you’re really making a difference. 🙂 many of us have been talking about these problems for so many years, but you’re really doing something about it, and i commend you for that. you’re the (wo)man!
Shilohsays:April 30, 2010 at 8:35 PM
AWESOME!
I love it!
Laurensays:May 1, 2010 at 12:51 AM
Any indication that the Board or RL/DH were surprised by the stories shared?
I wonder if RL/DH will send out another mass email informing alumni that, “oops we were wrong again, apparently lots of people have been hurt and we are being investigated.”
Lauren – I don’t have that information.
Shannon – My guess is: unlikely.
TMgothsays:May 1, 2010 at 8:24 AM
This… is… AWESOME!
Anonsays:May 1, 2010 at 10:24 AM
Sorry to put a damper on the celebration, but I have a few questions/comments about the board’s repsonse…
1.) They said the timeline could take a ‘minimum’ of 2 months- what’s the max? 5 months? A year? (investigations rarely take so little time- unless you’re the IOC investigating underage Chinese gymnasts in the 2008 Olympics)
2.) If they are doing an investigation of the HA and its head honchos, why isn’t the academy being shut down for the upcoming year? Or, at the very least, having different leadership in place while DH and RL are being checked out? It’s kind of like when a school is on fire- you don’t wait to see if there really is a fire, you get the kids out immediately if there’s any sign or warning that there could be one. It’s the same thing here, if you have a sign or warning that this place could be dangerous (which they do), then get the kids out!
3.) This panel of ‘professionals’ is another thing that kind of has me scratching my head. First of all, are they going to pick people that are completely objective? (meaning no connection to TM whatsoever.) And why is it necessary to have a Bible scholar there? There’s no reason to have one- although the HA uses its doctrine as a way to justify their actions, there are too many different sects of Christianity for one Bible scholar to account for.
-Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but these are my feelings. I hope something gets done, but I have a feeling this (the whole panel/interview) is only being done to appease the masses and they will end up doing nothing. I hope I am wrong. Good luck!
TruthInLoveSucksSometimessays:May 1, 2010 at 10:45 AM
I did get a bit concerned about 3)
I would hope they would be people who have had no prior involvement with TM in any capacity. It would be very easy to put a mock panel together.
Yes, I too have concerns about choosing people who have TM ties…
And 2 months was my summarization – they didn’t say those exact words. A maximum time was not given, but I was assured that they want to do this as quickly as possible and not have it lingering for a long period of time.
I don’t know why they feel like a theological person is necessary…
After thinking about the conversation more, I think a major thrust of the investigation is finding out whether or not the allegations we’ve made are outdated. In Ron’s letter, he clearly states that they have already “fixed” these problems, so the BOD will go about determining whether or not that is actually the case.
One problem with investigating is that often the abuse isn’t realized until years later…
Not to mention the problem is that these things happened at all, who cares when!
It’s kind of like the old conundrum “Have you stopped beating your wife”–apparently Ron thinks “Yes” is a perfectly satisfactory answer?!?
RA, I’ve emailed you a contact I have whose theological and counseling experience is unsurpassed. (I don’t know if the board is taking suggestions, but they definitely won’t find anyone better qualified.)
Shannon Nelsonsays:May 1, 2010 at 7:15 PM
So this certainly seems interesting. I would look forward to being a part of this survey, and I must agree with RA. It took several years for me to realize that some of the things I experienced at the Honor Academy were wrong. I only recently learned about this site from a couple of other alumni, and I just finally quit pretending I was never a part of TMM.
For MANY years I thought I didn’t deserve a relationship with Jesus Christ. I believed I could never be good enough and would never be a Super Christian. I thought He was disappointed in me and tolerated me more than He loved me. I was so unworthy in my mind, I didn’t believe I deserved to marry a good man who loved me and treated me with respect.
I am 27 years old now. For the first time in at least eight years, I spoke to my mom about some of the experiences and actually started to tear up about these things. Her observation was that I was negatively changed after my internship year was over and “they shattered your confidence.” At the time, her concern about me being there was that I was paying them to let me work for them, stay in lacking dorms, and eat crappy food. She never even considered the cult-like issues.
Now hearing about my experience, she was beside herself. She asked why I didn’t tell her at the time and told me if she’d known, she would have gotten me out of there. But I never would have complained to her about the HA–I’m the one who started the Xanga blogring “Teen Mania is not Cult”
I take responsibility for my spiritual life and I’m not blaming TMM for my years of pain and confusion. HOWEVER, leadership needs to finally acknowledge and take seriously the fact that they are shaping young people during an already precarious time in their lives. They are capable and either naive or not interested in the fact that they have the power to do more harm than good if they are not extremely careful.
What can we do in the meantime? Pray. Keep an open, honest dialogue going with each other. Focus on Jesus and allow Him to heal us.
Anonymoussays:May 1, 2010 at 8:20 PM
What makes you think Ron Luce isn’t wanting change, and Dave Hasz for that matter? I read some of the comments here and one thing your all forgetting is that Ron sits on the board of directors and so does his wife and Dave is his right hand man….do you really think he is surprised by all of this and trying to keep it from happening? If Ron or Dave were going to try and hide anything, I’m pretty confident they could have been pretty successful in keeping it from the board if they wanted to.
I wonder if Ron & Dave both are looking to “apologize” if you will to alumni and make changes but probably don’t know where to start so doing this is the first step in the right direction, I’d like to believe that they are on board for it otherwise like I said, it probably would have been covered up….just some thoughts
Anon,
Based on the email he sent out to the entire alumni, I don’t see that they are willing to change, or even apologetic towards the things that have happened and are likely to continue happening.
Had they been open to change they would have embraced those of us who are here instead of shunning us and treating us as outcasts.
Anonymoussays:May 1, 2010 at 10:29 PM
Shannon while I appreciate your thoughts, that email was sent out over a month ago….alot could have happened since then, just sayin
ancient internsays:May 2, 2010 at 7:58 PM
In regards to them having a theological person involved in the evaluation process, I think this is really important. Many of the discussions on the blog have centered on wrong or misapplied teachings at the HA. So, I think analyzing the teachings from a perspective of: what is taught that is good, what is taught that is bad (even informally), and what is taught as Scripture but is really just somebody’s opinion. This matters as the way we believe affects the way we act and the way we treat people. Better theology (or a better application of it) could only help the TM.
Anonymoussays:May 2, 2010 at 8:27 PM
Though some might counter that saying “better theology” is like saying “best color”. Interpretation of scripture is very subjective.
machicharsays:May 3, 2010 at 8:25 AM
With the way things happen at TM, they say two months but what it really means is much longer. Much like the new dorms that were supposed to be built 10 years ago yet still haven’t been built.
machicharsays:May 3, 2010 at 8:27 AM
Is the panel conducting interviews going to be made of people who are currently, or have been, on staff at TM?
Anon, I replied directly to that email my story, and still to this day have not heard a response. So, I am still not seeing an openness to change. In fact, go to any HA related website, facebook group, or the Alumni website, and you will see that we are still being shunned and treated as lesser people.
laynesays:May 3, 2010 at 9:08 AM
Shannon Nelson, it’s good to see you here lady!
Anonymoussays:May 3, 2010 at 6:00 PM
Shannon, show me specifically where you are being shunned on a TM related website. I might just be overlooking something but I haven’t seen anything that shuns you
Anonymoussays:May 3, 2010 at 6:45 PM
Anonymous – Go read the comments on the HA Alumni facebook and the HA Alumni website. Its right there in black and white…
Anonymoussays:May 3, 2010 at 9:17 PM
Anon 6:45….I did check out the HA Alumni facebook page and I saw a debate amongst 3 alumni so I could see maybe how this would fit there but at the same time the ha alumni facebook is not regulated by anyone at HA but actually by an alumni. Further I did check out the alumni site and I also didn’t see anything there other than the letter Ron had sent in an earlier post, am I not looking in the right place? (Also just an FYI, the alumni site is also not regulated by the HA but by alumni). Further i also checked out the other TM websites actually regulated by TM and found nothing.
So I don’t mean to debate but seriously show me an actual TM regulated site that you are “being shunned or treated as lesser people” by Ron, Dave or any of the staff that are currently there to prove your point otherwise I will assume your comment is not valid.
thanks
Anon-
Specifically- “Personally I think it is ridiculous to have people cry about their poor wittle feelings hurt from something 10 yrs ago or however many and come make a blog to complain. Get over it life goes on. At least they aren’t being shot at, blown up, or decapitated. Christians need to grow some thick skin. If it was that bad then they should have left.”
That was posted on the alumni site. It was a great slap in my face and very hurtful to know that I should just “get over it” and “grow some thick skin” because I cry about my “poor wittle feelings”
Anonymoussays:May 4, 2010 at 7:18 AM
Shannon where was this posted at on the alumni site?
Anonymoussays:May 4, 2010 at 7:25 AM
Shannon with so many anon’s its hard to determine who is who I’m sure, lol. However I haven’t actually seen that statement anywhere on the alumni site so I’m not sure where your looking but regardless it still does not prove a point that Dave, Ron or any other staff member at TM isn’t wanting any change whatsoever as once again I will say that the alumni site is led by alumni, not regulated by TM at all.
In a thread on the Alumni Discussion board in the thread titled, “Ron’s letter”. It was posted by Curtis Romano.
Yet, they have done nothing to show that they want change, or any of the sort. Also, as I mentioned before, if they were truly wanting to embrace those of us that were hurt, wouldn’t they try to reach out to us? I have tried to reach out to RL and DH a couple of times and never got a response.
I didn’t suggest that we were being shunned by RL and DH themselves, but we are being shunned by The Line.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Hey Everyone I tried to come out and say I posted it. But the Administrator Deleted my post because I was expressing my truth and feelings. If you want a blunt and honest opinion. E-mail me romanocurtis@yahoo.com
Anonymoussays:May 4, 2010 at 10:21 AM
Shannon Nelson,
Thanks for sharing. I just recently let my Mom in on all my “Ha Secrets.” She had a very similar response. She also feels some what responsible, even though I told her I wouldn’t have let her come get me back then. My Dad said He thought “I was trying to get them to notice something was wrong” but they didn’t know what. He reminded me of some conversations I had over the phone with them and I realized I was crying for help without even knowing.
Back in the day we didn’t have cell phones. The only phone to call home was in the middle of the hall. Most of us sat close to the wall and talked while people walked by. I remember being very careful what I spoke about because everyone could hear what was said.
Anonymoussays:May 4, 2010 at 10:22 AM
Shannon, that makes more sense. It looks like the discussion board is no longer on the alumni site so thats why I didn’t see it. I agree with you that if they were wanting to embrace those that were hurt they would reach out to you so I would ask when did you try to reach out to RL or DH? Was it before the whole letter scandal or after?, :). If it was after all of that then I can see your point but if it was before all that I would encourage you to try again and see what happens….just a thought
you are right that you didn’t say you were being shunned by RL or DH themselves I agree with you on that but the point I was making above is that alot could have happend since the whole letter debacle so how do we know their hearts haven’t changed since then? nothing posted seems to show otherwise.
I would encourage you and anyone else to try to send in your story again and see what happens. I would encourage though to be very specific in what you are wanting, DH’s email is david.hasz@teenmania.com and Ron’s is ron.luce@teenmania.com. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Good Luck!
Hannahsays:May 4, 2010 at 12:52 PM
Hi everyone-
I think it is IMPERATIVE to have someone trained in systematic theology of church history- PhD preferably- to sit on that panel.
Someone OUTSIDE of the influence of ORU or TM.
Anyone who has that kind of understanding will certainly see and have the platform to speak a whole lot of truth concerning the theology they are teaching and activities that shape TM as a whole. If we brush off history- we are not going to be able to fully understand the ramifications of what is taking place at TM. Christian history is rich with Christian groups that were feeding themselves with elitism and self-righteous works- someone with that kind of understanding will see it in a instant. Again you should demand they be outside of TM/ORU/whatever— anyone outside – these people will have a fresh perspective- and that is what TM needs.
Also – who is on that panel in general will shape the future of TM. If you can, please require people from outside of Charismatic/Evangelical circles. What TM needs is the church- the body of Christ. Too much spiritual elitism has got them thinking [and all their interns thinking] that they are the cream of the crop of the body of Christ… That they are the ones that Jesus REALLY wants to use. Its pharisaical and Jesus Himself condemns it. It seems to be that TM thinks that they can operate only under their own evangelical elitism— apart from the body of Christ. But what they need is a panel of people from ALL PARTS OF THE BODY; its accountability to the church.
Also- one last thing. I think David Hasz and RL are good people and truly love Jesus and really believe they are doing the right thing. They are not intentionally or maliciously destroying people’s understanding of the Love of Jesus. I think that they are under educated for their positions. In fact, I would like to poll staff members – those TEACHING interns – concerning their education. [Does anyone remember Heath Stoners “5 Things a Man Wants” speech? GOOD LORD that alone should anyone into a tailspin of questioning the education levels of anyone teaching at TM. That’s not to mention their Biblical teachings! ]
I think it would be quite startling to find the people that are forming thousands of young people’s relationships with Jesus have virtually NO understanding of the theology they are actually teaching. I really think that it might be simpler than we think—they don’t understand what they are teaching. They can’t see beyond the “good and powerful sermon illustrations” to what it actually means theologically for thousands of developing minds.
Hannah. I agree with you completely.
msbethh42says:May 5, 2010 at 12:30 PM
I’m excited to hear about this! Glad it’s going somewhere!
Jacquelinesays:May 5, 2010 at 4:00 PM
Well said Hannah.
This blog is interesting, first time to see it. My two years at TM were interesting, but it set in motion my search for really biblical theology and now attend reformed baptist seminary. Part of me is thankful for a bit of the experience at TM but wow was I frustrated much of my time there at watch the bible and the gospel have very little place and when it did quoted out of context mostly by interns. I’m thankful my boss was the best though, yay for Beth Andersen we goofed of so much at work and produced more results in the groups department then ever in history! To bad the mission trips meant next to nothing, because no gospel is preached.
quick and dirty thoughts from Preston Stevens prestonrstevens@gmail.com
Anonymoussays:May 9, 2010 at 5:25 PM
Please let me know how I can be interviewed by this team of investigators, teen mania still owes me 500 dollars from when I was staff. A lot of people are
concerned with the abuse of interns but I must say for staff members it can be just as bad, I don’t plan on ever working for a ministry again, or ever making a one sided commitment again, a contract maybe but a commitment NO.
Anon, email me and I will give you the BOD contact info. recoveringalumni at hotmail dot com
Anna_the_Cricketsays:May 10, 2010 at 11:17 AM
Hey Guys!
I’m an alumni from fairly recent years (undergrad 06-07 and GI 07-08). It’s been interesting reading through these comments. I don’t fully comprehend the impact, positive or negative, that the HA has had in my life, but I will say this: memorizing scripture and reading through the bible in a year (well, I got to 2 Cor:) had an amazing influence on my view of Christ and our Father (I had no idea the OT was so fascinating!). I would never trade being guided like that for anything. And I can remember powerful worship times and the Lord addressing so much junk in my life that helped prepare my heart for the greater healing that I have been experiencing years after. My CA said that she went after sin in our lives like a rabid dog:) I must say, I’m grateful she drew me out in areas I was trying to hide because I was so ashamed of things I had done. Confession=shining the light on it=beginning of healing:):)
To Preston, I must say, I have to disagree with you about how much of the Gospel is being preached on those mission trips. In Summer 07, I went on Dallas Y and I was the story teller for our second site and we were straight up telling the story of Jesus starting from the Garden of Eden and the first sin. I remember specifically telling children about the crucifixion of Christ and during the retelling, we had an encounter with the Lord on a group scale with the children.
My heart hungered to know the Lord more and more, and I have to say that the Lord didn’t disappoint me at the HA.
I am not saying that I didn’t have negative effects, because as I was reading the comments about conversations with parents, I could see how closely it mapped with my own experience in that regard. (But teaching on submitting to authority has helped me to submit to my dad and to the Lord after my time was over at the HA. And teaching against the elitist mentality was given as well.) Also, some of my own self-condemning thoughts reared their ugly heads and some self-destructive habits like procrastination didn’t do good things to my TM experience.
From what I understand, my undergrad year was different from previous years..from built in quiet times to improved food, alumni from previous years I have talked to have been very surprised at the changes I told them about (I didn’t know they were changes until they expressed their surprise). There were also classes in place for inner healing for women.
Please bear with me while I share some strong words…TM is not perfect; however, they are not inept, either. They are, from what I have experienced, making positive changes moving forward. There is so much good there; please, oh, please do not discount the good things the Lord has done and is doing there. I can understand that you might be bitter about various experiences you have had there (I have had to sort through some myself), but please try to remember the good things that you experienced and the good habits you were taught while being an intern. Remember times the Lord “met you” and strengthened you and guided you in things like your quiet times and long night conversations with your CA.
The Lord blessed me so much through that ministry, and I pray only good things for it, and I pray only good things for you.
Thanks for reading this and I am excited for what the Lord will do in and through TM, in and through you, and in and through me as we all press on to know, love, and obey Christ. Bless you all!:)
Much love in Christ,
“Anna_the_Cricket”:)
Anna, I’m glad you had a good experience.
Your comment about your CA going after your sin “like a rabid dog” was really concerning to me though. That is the Holy Spirit’s job…not a 19 year old without a clue…
For one of the ignorant who attended in 01, what is a “built in quiet time”?
Nunquam Honorablussays:May 10, 2010 at 1:34 PM
“Built in quiet time”- my best guess is that it’s the scheduled hour-long quiet times. You know, Monday at 11-12, Wednesday at 2-3, etc.
Anna- you were a GI when I was an intern. Can’t say I know who you are though! You sound really sweet though; it’s refreshing to see some tact and grace from our pro-HA readers 😉 I still have to side with RA though; abuse happens when man tries to take the role of the Holy Spirit. And that’s not just in the HA! That’s in parenting, in relationships, anywhere.
Hope you stick around though; you seem cool 🙂
Nunquam Honorablussays:May 10, 2010 at 1:35 PM
HOLY COW look at all the “though”s in that last post.
I humbly ask the Internet’s forgiveness.
katydidsays:May 10, 2010 at 9:55 PM
Nunquam…at least you spelled it correctly 🙂
Anonymoussays:May 10, 2010 at 10:21 PM
As far as I know they have gone through the investigation and the board is done now. Just sayin.
Last Anonymous – Can you either elaborate here or shoot me an email? recoveringalumni at hotmail dot com. I will keep your identity confidential
Anna_the_Cricketsays:May 10, 2010 at 11:45 PM
Hi Again:)
@RA- Sorry, I could have elaborated better on that…My CA was very aware of her need to lean on the Holy Spirit. She was (and is:) a Spirit-filled woman of God who took her position as mentor before the Lord very seriously.
@Shannon- a built in quiet time is a time set time with the Lord within the normal schedule, so it would look like this: 5-6am corporate, 6-8 (??) breakfast and showers, 8-9 corporate quiet time (done individually, but at the same time), 9-10 class or ministry placement, etc. I talked to an alumni who said she would have loved if they did it that way during her year! Some people didn’t like it because they wanted to have the freedom to choose when they spent time with the Lord; in such a busy schedule, I think it’s a good idea and it’s really not a bad thing to have a set time with the Lord in His Word and in prayer, even if someone tells us one of the times in the day we should do it. Our heart’s motivation in what we do makes a thing legalistic or not..an act of love or an act of saving face:) – the Lord’s been gently dealing with me lately on “going through the motions,” especially since in harder times, it’s easy to set myself on autopilot and settle for restraining my flesh instead of leaning on the Lord’s understanding and drawing from His strength and loving with His love.
@Nunquam Honorablus- Hi! Thanks for your kind words!:) Yes, I agree that man should not try to take the place of the Holy Spirit. I agree that it happens in different places, too…it has especially happened in the Church, MOST unfortunately. I see the Lord moving in His people, though, and am excited to come across more and more spirit-filled believers and I love seeing groups of His people moving with His heartbeat:)
My name is different from the alias I gave. My alias is taken from the name I always chose in my foreign language class (Anna) and a nickname my friends gave me during marching band camp in high school (Cricket). I had to make up a nickname for a site I signed up for a few years ago (gott.de, a german site called “Soul Saver”) and that’s the nickname I came up with! Anna_the_Cricket:) The name now has different significance for me (the Anna in the Bible, in the Temple, waiting for the Messiah’s coming). Long story short, you might know me! I was a BCOM GI. I don’t know if it’s proper for me to reveal my true identity:):) If you want to connect, let me know. That goes for anyone here, too.
Hey RA, blessings to you as you seek to minister to hurting souls! May the Lord give you great understanding and compassion to love on His people:)
Much love in Christ,
Anna_the_Cricket
Anna_the_Cricketsays:May 10, 2010 at 11:56 PM
I just wrote a lot and wanted to finish up. I haven’t left this conversation! (I thought it sounded like I was going to)
Nunquam Honorablussays:May 11, 2010 at 9:36 AM
Anna-
Shoot me an email at vengeance.as.a.virtue at gmail dot com. 🙂
Liz (Engskow) Davilasays:May 12, 2010 at 5:38 PM
This is great!!
I agree that whoever is on the panel should NOT have any prior affiliation with TMM, or with any staff or intern. They need someone COMPLETELY independent.
I would love to be interviewed by the panel.
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