In response to my posts this week critiquing Dave Hasz’s leadership and Ron Luce’s teaching, Teen Mania decided to take down all their videos. That seems like a really odd response to me. If Teen Mania stands behind their teachings and has nothing to hide, why did they take down the videos? They had several options:
1) They could have responded to my critique with Scriptural reasons why they feel they are correct or how I misunderstood them.
2) They could have agreed with my critique and apologized for their error.
They even had the option of just ignoring me. I’m just one little blog and they are a large, multi-million dollar ministry. (!!!)
Instead, they chose to yank their videos off the web and away from the scrutiny of the public.
UPDATE: Heath Stoner responded to this question via email:
The class video’s (sic) were taken down because they also should have been password protected. The reason we won’t keep them up is because we want people to come to the HA to go through the class. It would be the same reason that a University would not put all of their classes online for everyone to watch. They want the students to come to the University to take the classes.
We will continue to have all of the Freedom Services online though and hope to have all of the chapel services on there.
16 comments:
Ben said…
that’s all well and good in theory, but it doesn’t make it LOOK any better because you can’t deny the effect of hiding. shouldn’t they be avoiding even the appearance of evil? that was certainly a staple verse given for interns.
aaand after trying to find where that verse was, i’ve only found that “appearance” is a faulty translation. wow. definitely heard that one a lot at the HA.
http://www.crivoice.org/appearance.html
December 5, 2009 7:19 AM
Anonymous said…
Well. This is interesting. Hmmm… They’re right, they shouldn’t have had the video’s up ANYWAYS.
It’s kinda a lose lose for them. If they have them up, they look like they are too confident in what they preach. But then if they take them down they look like they’re hiding. Another thing I’m thinking is they might just agree with their view and have refrence to back it up, but they really did just think it through and thought that since their video’s being up was going to get them slammed they should just take it down.
*I totally whole heartedly disagree with T.M.- for the record*
Just not sure if this post is totally right on the money. They may not have been “hiding” but simply trying to protect their name.
December 5, 2009 7:59 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Anonymous – I agree there is some merit in Heath’s response. This whole situation was just really poorly thought out by them on all fronts.
FYI – I originally wrote this post before anyone at TM contacted me. I’m leaving it up as well as Heath’s reponse and people can make up their own minds.
Don’t say I never gave both sides! 😉
December 5, 2009 9:26 AM
Stephanie said…
Wooow.
This highlights and underscores my biggest issue with TM.
They had the videos up (even if it just to “whet the appetities” of “future interns”), which I suppose was fine. But they take it down with an excuse like that?
Even if there IS merit to that, it’s not the whole truth.
Examples:
1. “Why isn’t there soda in the caf anymore?”
“Well, soda contains a lot of sugar, so you can have juice instead with an even higher sugar count!”
(Real answer: money.)
2. “Why can’t we tell our friends and family about what we experienced in ESOAL?”
“Well, they JUST MIGHT be interns some day, and you really don’t want to ruin the surprise ;D”
(Real answer: it makes us sound like a friggin cult)
3. “Why did we switch from the “Semper Honorablus” rings back to the old Hebrew rings?”
“Don’t ask questions!”
(Real answer: money.)
We ALL know the answers to those questions- if they would just tell us the WHOLE truth, they wouldn’t sound so sketch.
It’s okay to tell the whole truth. Really, it is. Even if it shows that, gasp, YOU’RE NOT PERFECT.
December 5, 2009 11:06 AM
h. said…
stephanie–i think you articulated well what many of us experienced in our time at the internship.
as an undergrad intern, i think i was still under the impression that the ministry was perfect and everyone loved Jesus and everything was happy and holy and grand. but it was when i became an graduate intern and was a little closer into the inner circle of things that i began to see how flawed everything really was, and the point that you highlighted above really sums up a majority of my experience. for a whole year the biggest struggle that i, and many of the people in my GI program, felt lied to…again, and again, and again.
December 7, 2009 9:29 PM
Anonymous said…
H. I think I know you. 🙂 lol. you might have just been in MY program. 🙂 at least it sounds like it. lied to OVER AND OVER AND OVER again, like from the begining???? yup. and Steph you articulated it PERFECTLY. All they ever needed to do was tell the WHOLE truth but it was really like they never did. we KNEW we were being lied to when it was happening. uhg. so glad I’m out of that place!
December 8, 2009 6:37 PM
Recovering Alumni said…
Its interesting to note that Heaths comment above doesnt even seem to hold water. If they were supposed to be password protected, why didn’t they just make them that way instead of taking them all down? Once again, Teen Mania appears to be fudging the truth.
December 8, 2009 7:00 PM
Stephanie said…
I think a big reason that TM tries to reveal only the “pretty parts” of the truth, is that they don’t want interns calling home and telling their parents to continue supporting them in a failing system, financially or otherwise.
Again, those issues I mentioned above? SO not a big deal. We could all go without soda in the caf (but if that were the case then why were the $1.25 soda machines still everywhere??)… I just wish they wouldn’t insult our intelligence, and that they’d just trust us to handle the situation like adults.
…
Unfortunately, handling the situation like an adult would probably mean removing ourselves from spiritual harm, and that wouldn’t go over well with them ;P
December 8, 2009 8:42 PM
h. said…
anonymous 2–MT? i had the time of my life on the ministry team. but our interactions with campus and the HA as a whole were messy and broken, and i have example after example of ways that we were mistreated and lied to. many of my friends finished out our year incredibly bitter and angry.
overall i still have a hard time wrapping my mind around the whys and hows. i mean really, why lie? why manipulate, why distort scripture, why? i want to be angry at an impressionable, eager version of myself for buying into it so much…but on the flip side, i so desperately wanted to do great things for Jesus that i probably would have bought anything anyone told me.
December 8, 2009 9:29 PM
Anonymous said…
“multi million”.. haha.. if they have so much money then why dont they use it for things like SOAP in the bathrooms….TOILET PAPER…. PAPER TOWELS…..
March 14, 2010 12:42 PM
Mortimer said…
I’d just like to comment on three things said above, just to shed some light.
“They had the videos up (even if it just to “whet the appetities” of “future interns”), which I suppose was fine. But they take it down with an excuse like that?”
I am on staff at Teen Mania right now, and I worked with putting the classes online. They weren’t put up to “whet the appetites” of future interns. Our only reason for uploading them to the web was so that the interns in our charter at the HA of the Ozarks could watch some classes.
“2. “Why can’t we tell our friends and family about what we experienced in ESOAL?”
“Well, they JUST MIGHT be interns some day, and you really don’t want to ruin the surprise ;D”
(Real answer: it makes us sound like a friggin cult)”
I have been at Teen Mania for 3 years and have NEVER heard that from leadership as a reason for not telling friends or family about ESOAL (I attend all classes and pay attention:)). I’m not saying that was never said – it could have been before I was here, but I just want you to know that is not the main reason, and that is not a reason that is given at all by the leadership of the Honor Academy.
“Its interesting to note that Heath’s comment above doesnt even seem to hold water. If they were supposed to be password protected, why didn’t they just make them that way instead of taking them all down? Once again, Teen Mania appears to be fudging the truth.
This is a good question/legitimate thought. It may “appear” that we are fudging the truth, but that is not the case. Heath emailed me around that time and asked me if we could password protect the videos (he hadn’t been aware of the fact that they weren’t password protected before, that was my fault). I looked into it a bit and couldn’t find a place on the site to set that up. So now we are getting the videos to those interns another way.
March 19, 2010 11:28 PM
Anonymous said…
I do have to say that sound’s legit. And makes since. But it looked pretty terrible.
As for #2- I believe that was the ONLY reason we weren’t aloud to tell people about esoal as far as I remember. oh gosh and I remember MANY a time, that someone would find out about an intern that put something up on ESOAL and got mad flack from the rest of us.
March 20, 2010 12:10 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Mort – Thanks for bringing clarity to Heath’s comments….I think we can just probably chalk this up to a poorly handled situation instead of an attempt to deceive….
I still don’t think the accreditation reason is very compelling, though…Its not like someone is going to watch them and then not go to the HA because they already learned the material…
March 20, 2010 12:53 AM
Mortimer said…
Anonymous,
My how some things change so much. Haha. I have actually only heard from leadership that we simply have to be careful how we talk to our friends and family about ESOAL, because it can be easily misunderstood if the heart behind it is not explained. Did you see that Heath Stoner posted many videos of ESOAL this year on his blog? We don’t want to hide what we do at ESOAL, we just don’t want people to jump to conclusions and call us a cult without seeing the reason for it.
RA,
You’re welcome. Thank you for agreeing there was no intention to deceive. Maybe if you were in charge here you wouldn’t have that rule…but I’m very confident he wasn’t making that up as an excuse. For years we’ve asked interns not to share the class audio (on CD) with friends in excess amounts, for the same reason.
Do you think that some other opinions you are adamant about here could easily come down to only “appearances” and are misunderstandings or assumptions? I’m not saying all of them are, just want to hear your thoughts…I hope you are as open to clarification/correction on issues as it seems in this response 🙂
March 20, 2010 1:40 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
Hi Mort – Nice name, btw.
You said TM doesn’t want “people to jump to conclusions and call us a cult without seeing the reason for it.”
At the risk of going off-topic – the motivations don’t really matter if you are using classic cult and brainwashing tactics! There is a reason those tactics are so powerful and are only associated with cults! I know you won’t see it that way since you are still there – but thought I’d throw that in there for anyone else reading.
As for your question, yes and no. I certainly recognize that I am fallible and can easily misunderstand situations, etc. So, I do think its possible there are things on this site which are incorrect. Of course, that is the case with any human. 🙂
In a broader sense though, the main allegations of spiritual abuse, neglect of health and safety and an environment of guilt/shame/fear are fairly certain. Whether or not that environment is intentional is not something I can judge at this point. But based on my story and hundreds of others, I’m confident that the environment DOES exist.
March 20, 2010 10:53 AM
Recovering Alumni said…
And Mort, I wanted to add that I am willing to recant or restate anything which can be proved false on this website.
March 20, 2010 10:54 AM
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